Well you believe the law must be nigh on perfectly obeyed to remain justified don't you? That would have to include the TC
The Wet Paint Principle (Freedom from sin)
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You should know that I am not one of the people who says that.
I may have quoted scriptures at some juncture that led you to believe otherwise; but just know that I was simply attempting to discuss what is written in holy scripture.
It is not my personal belief that we can maintain our salvation by our performance.
I think that the key to what we are talking about here is to understand that no one can keep the letter of the law (Galatians 6:13)...And to you, the above verses speak of perfectly obeying the law-yes? I grew up with all of this. I was a trusting innocent young person. I believed the people preaching this actually practiced what they preached. Now, decades later I see how wrong I was.
But that if we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).
And this, not according to the letter; but according to the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6).
You are not seeing my whole point of view but are focused on one side of the coin.Well you believe the law must be nigh on perfectly obeyed to remain justified don't you? That would have to include the TC
You have to understand the truth of what is written in holy scripture. What do you think the pharisees used to attack Christ, Paul and the other Apostles? They used the then Holy Scriptures to do it. Someone once said ''you can understand the Qran simply by reading the letter of it, the bible was not meant to be understood that way. You are reciting the partial letter and expecting it to be nigh on perfectly followed. Sadly, in our flesh, we do not do that, and so, you must read the bible as one cohesive whole. You cannot have Christ as your righteousness for the whole of your life, and at the same time say in order to remain righteous before God you must nigh on perfectly obey the law. It is a contradiction, which shows, that you are not understanding the whole cohesive message of scriptureI may have quoted scriptures at some juncture that led you to believe otherwise; but just know that I was simply attempting to discuss what is written in holy scripture.
It is not my personal belief that we can maintain our salvation by our performance.
Yet at the same time you post comments concerning perfectly obeying the law to remain justified before God. There is too much contradiction in what you writeI think that the key to what we are talking about here is to understand that no one can keep the letter of the law (Galatians 6:13)...
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If righteousness is imputed to you it means that you have an unshakable identity in Christ, that you are righteous...even when you blow it (Romans 4:5).
The exhortation, therefore, is "Go and live like your new identity" (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).
The exhortation, therefore, is "Go and live like your new identity" (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).
Please use the quote feature and bring to the forefront my comments.Yet at the same time you post comments concerning perfectly obeying the law to remain justified before God.
Because I don't think that they said what you think they said.
I will below copy some of your remarks from post 22 in the Galatians thread. You wrote:Please use the quote feature and bring to the forefront my comments.
Because I don't think that they said what you think they said.
I have a question that relates to what we find taught in the epistle of Paul to the Galatians.
In 1 John 3:4 we find that sin is the transgression of the law;
And in 1 John 3:9 we find that the one who is born of God "cannot sin" (count this as hyperbole if you so desire)...
Would it not then be true that the one who is justified would be one who keeps the law perfectly; since if he is born of God, he "cannot sin"?
And therefore, is not the one who is born of God justified through the fact that he keeps the law perfectly; since it is his lack of a sinful lifestyle that identifies him as being born of God?
Is it not the fact that he "cannot sin" that identifies him as being born again?
So, since sin is the transgression of the law, is it not his law-keeping that justifies him as being born of God?
Yes, I was asking those things as questions because I was attempting to deal with what I perceived as being an apparent contradiction in holy scripture.I will below copy some of your remarks from post 22 in the Galatians thread. You wrote:
I have a question that relates to what we find taught in the epistle of Paul to the Galatians.
In 1 John 3:4 we find that sin is the transgression of the law;
And in 1 John 3:9 we find that the one who is born of God "cannot sin" (count this as hyperbole if you so desire)...
Would it not then be true that the one who is justified would be one who keeps the law perfectly; since if he is born of God, he "cannot sin"?
And therefore, is not the one who is born of God justified through the fact that he keeps the law perfectly; since it is his lack of a sinful lifestyle that identifies him as being born of God?
Is it not the fact that he "cannot sin" that identifies him as being born again?
So, since sin is the transgression of the law, is it not his law-keeping that justifies him as being born of God?
What did I say afterward in the same post?
I would say to all of this that a person first places their faith and trust in Jesus Christ, is then justified by and through that faith; and then begins to consistently bear the fruit of the Spirit against which there is no law.Yes, I was asking those things as questions because I was attempting to deal with what I perceived as being an apparent contradiction in holy scripture.
What did I say afterward in the same post?
So, the person is not justified by or through their law-keeping but by and through faith in Jesus Christ.
Then, having been justified by and through faith, their behaviour begins to change so that they cease from violating the law of the Lord.
Even as it is written,
Rom 2:13, (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
not to be confused with,
Gal 2:16, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
The former verse referring to how a man will be justified if he was a doer of the law on the day of judgment when men will be judged by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10);
And the latter verse referring to the fact that a person is regenerated and renewed in the Holy Ghost, not by works of righteousness which he hath done; but that, being regenerated and renewed, such a person would have the love of the Lord shed abroad in his heart (Romans 5:5); and this love, being not impractical (1 John 3:17-18) would be the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within that believer (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 8:4).
And that therefore, justification, to wit, being born again, is through faith alone while such a faith will produce works inevitably (that person becoming a doer of the law) since love is the fulfilling of the law.
And a person who has not received the love of the Lord has not been born again (Romans 5:5).
Lets clear this up then. Once a person becomes a christian and are justified by faith in Christ, does their continued justification hinge on obeying the law?
Lets clear this up then. Once a person becomes a christian and are justified by faith in Christ, does their continued justification hinge on obeying the law?
Absolutely not.
However, if they are genuinely born again, the love of the Lord is shed abroad in their heart (Romans 5:5) and this love, being not impractical (1 John 3:17-18) is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within them (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 8:4).
So, failing to obey the law does not take away a born again christians justification before God. That's great, but it contradicts a lot of what you have written in the last few hours.Absolutely not.
However, if they are genuinely born again, the love of the Lord is shed abroad in their heart (Romans 5:5) and this love, being not impractical (1 John 3:17-18) is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within them (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 8:4).
There are two sides to this coin.So, failing to obey the law does not take away a born again christians justification before God. That's great, but it contradicts a lot of what you have written in the last few hours.
But if you seek to understand the coin as a whole, I believe that you will be able to.
Let me explain once more. A born again believer has to know in their heart they are always secure with God under a righteousness of faith in Christ. I have repeatedly told you, those who actually believe it live far more Godly lives than those who keep stressing law keeping. If you understood the foundation upon which the new covenant stands you would not keep stressing law keeping for it is no longer an external law, but an internal law written in the mind and placed on the heart of born again believers. It is in their most inward parts, and so they know it, and in their hearts want to follow it, for that is where the law has been placedThere are two sides to this coin.
The righteousness of faith is a practical righteousness, would you agree or disagree?
We are told to cease from sinning in 1 Corinthians 15:34, Ephesians 4:26, and sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20).
This is all a part of the righteousness which is of God by faith.
For, this righteousness is the Holy Spirit dwelling within us; and as we walk according to the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4). God does not only cleanse the outside of the cup and platter; He cleans the inside so that the outside also might be clean (Matthew 23:25-28).
I do believe that we are to keep the law that is written on our hearts and minds as New Covenant believers; we are to obey it. I'm in agreement that we do not any longer look at it from the perspective of it being written on stone tablets; but that under the New Covenant it is written on fleshy tables of human hearts; written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God.
We are told to cease from sinning in 1 Corinthians 15:34, Ephesians 4:26, and sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20).
This is all a part of the righteousness which is of God by faith.
For, this righteousness is the Holy Spirit dwelling within us; and as we walk according to the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4). God does not only cleanse the outside of the cup and platter; He cleans the inside so that the outside also might be clean (Matthew 23:25-28).
I do believe that we are to keep the law that is written on our hearts and minds as New Covenant believers; we are to obey it. I'm in agreement that we do not any longer look at it from the perspective of it being written on stone tablets; but that under the New Covenant it is written on fleshy tables of human hearts; written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God.
The law is not based on faith Gal3:12The righteousness of faith is a practical righteousness, would you agree or disagree?
We are told to cease from sinning in 1 Corinthians 15:34, Ephesians 4:26, and sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20).
This is all a part of the righteousness which is of God by faith.
.
The law is not based on faith Gal3:12
In context, that is talking about seeking to be justified by the law.
Clearly, if we have faith then we receive the Holy Spirit (Galatians 3:14) and if we walk according to the Spirit and its fruit, there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23), the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4). Thus we will become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom, as Ezekiel 36:25-27 might tell you.
This is a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.
It is not obtained by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts...rather, we receive the Holy Spirit by faith and in doing so we become new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17) who are inclined towards being obedient to God's word. As we bear the fruit of the Spirit there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour.
Because the fruit of the Spirit is among other things goodness; and if we walk in goodness we will not violate any law, since the law's existence is in order to condemn behaviour that is evil rather than good.
If anyone is born of God they cannot sin (1 John 3:9); and sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).
So, being obedient to the law is in fact a result of faith.
Galatians 3:12 is saying that faith and law-keeping are mutually exclusive as means of salvation; so that if you are seeking to be justified by law-keeping, you have ceased to operate in faith and are not justified by faith if you are justified through your keeping of the law.
However, if you can become solid in your understanding that your justification is by and through faith, you can move forward in your Christian walk and begin to walk in the holiness of keeping the law; not in order to be justified; but because the love of the Lord is shed abroad in your heart (Romans 5:5) and that love, being not impractical (1 John 3:17-18) is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within you (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 JOhn 1:6; Romans 8:4).