theistic evolution - don't try this at home
- Thread starter WIJeff
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Science backs the Bible version of Creation. The age of the earth is way too young for big bang evolution to say nothing about it failing 5 seperate scientific laws. There are lots of problems with old earth concept. Diamond have Carbon-14 in them. Old earth would not have any in diamonds. This is just one of many scientific issues for old earth.
Then there is the archaeological digs proving the Bible completely accurate for miraculous happenings.
Jericho had the massive inner wall fall outward covering the ramp to the outer wall and the outer wall.
Sodom was destroyed by a pyroclastic blast of superheated material turning the lower city to dust and the upper parts of the upper cities buildings into dust.
Then there is the archaeological digs proving the Bible completely accurate for miraculous happenings.
Jericho had the massive inner wall fall outward covering the ramp to the outer wall and the outer wall.
Sodom was destroyed by a pyroclastic blast of superheated material turning the lower city to dust and the upper parts of the upper cities buildings into dust.
Last edited:
Prophecy does not always refer to future predictions. Indeed, in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter, prophecy means to edify.
So where did you see any reference to the word prophecy as meaning future prediction in the reference I had used below?
2 Peter 1:[SUP]19 [/SUP]We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:[SUP] 20 [/SUP]Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Therefore the Book of Genesis is edification as in the word is true. You need His help to see that.
If this is true this creature does not seem to have changed.
Prehistoric, Dinosaur-Era Shark With Insane Teeth Found Swimming Off Coast of Portugal
By Dana Dovey On 11/11/17 at 8:09 AM
3-4 minutes
Updated | The rare frilled shark is considered a “living fossil,” because evidence of its existence dates back to at least 80 million years ago. This summer, researchers found one alive and thriving off the coast of Portugal, adding yet more clues about the resilience of this ancient sea creature.
The shark was discovered off the Algarve coast by researchers who were working on a European Union project in the area, the BBC reported. The aim of the project was to "minimize unwanted catches in commercial fishing," the researchers told SIC Noticisas TV, as the BBC noted. but the team unknowingly unearthed one of the rarest and most ancient animals on the planet.
Scientists believe the frilled shark has remained the same, both inside and out, since the Cretaceous Period, when the Tyrannosaurus Rex and Triceratops still roamed the planet. The creature, known by scientists as Chlamydoselachus anguineus, is incredibly simple and unevolved, most likely due to the lack of nutrients found in its deep-sea dwellings. A Japanese study of the shark found in Suruga Bay, Japan, revealed that its diet is 61 percent cephalopods—the class to which squids and octopus belong.
Keep up with this story and more by subscribing now
This fish is rarely seen by humans but has lived on the Earth since long before man. Awashima Marine Park/Getty Images
This deep sea dweller is usually found between 390 and 4,200 feet below the surface, which is why it’s rarely seen and wasn’t even discovered before the 19th century (despite being around long before humans).
The shark caught this summer measured around five feet in length, but at their longest can be around six-and-a-half feet, IFL Science reported. Another study of a Suruga Bay inhabitant showed that frilled sharks may also have the longest gestation period of any living creature, 42 months.
Prehistoric, Dinosaur-Era Shark With Insane Teeth Found Swimming Off Coast of Portugal
By Dana Dovey On 11/11/17 at 8:09 AM
3-4 minutes
Updated | The rare frilled shark is considered a “living fossil,” because evidence of its existence dates back to at least 80 million years ago. This summer, researchers found one alive and thriving off the coast of Portugal, adding yet more clues about the resilience of this ancient sea creature.
The shark was discovered off the Algarve coast by researchers who were working on a European Union project in the area, the BBC reported. The aim of the project was to "minimize unwanted catches in commercial fishing," the researchers told SIC Noticisas TV, as the BBC noted. but the team unknowingly unearthed one of the rarest and most ancient animals on the planet.
Scientists believe the frilled shark has remained the same, both inside and out, since the Cretaceous Period, when the Tyrannosaurus Rex and Triceratops still roamed the planet. The creature, known by scientists as Chlamydoselachus anguineus, is incredibly simple and unevolved, most likely due to the lack of nutrients found in its deep-sea dwellings. A Japanese study of the shark found in Suruga Bay, Japan, revealed that its diet is 61 percent cephalopods—the class to which squids and octopus belong.
Keep up with this story and more by subscribing now
This deep sea dweller is usually found between 390 and 4,200 feet below the surface, which is why it’s rarely seen and wasn’t even discovered before the 19th century (despite being around long before humans).
The shark caught this summer measured around five feet in length, but at their longest can be around six-and-a-half feet, IFL Science reported. Another study of a Suruga Bay inhabitant showed that frilled sharks may also have the longest gestation period of any living creature, 42 months.
Enow,
Thank you for answering, and a second thank-you for posting those verses . (1 Corinthians 15:21,22) I was trying to find them but couldn't remember the correct wording.
I think I need to throw a disclaimer in here because this whole topic is something I've been praying about for years and have learned that I have difficulty adapting my belief system to match what God reveals to me. Because honestly, it kinda scares me. So what happens is that I learn one small thing...then have to ponder it for months or more, considering what the ramifications are. As a result, I only know this stuff part way.. and i can only share those portions.
I'll also say this as part of the disclaimer. We CANNOT throw out what God says. The word of God is truth. I am NOT proposing we throw out what God says on the matter. What I'm saying is that we have to be willing to recognize and question our ASSUMPTIONS...or we won't be willing to learn stuff that is contrary to our assumptions (which are NOT the word of God...assumptions are the word of our understanding...which is not to be leaned on.).
And, for Snoozy's sake, I'll clarify that my beliefs on the matter were not handed to me from "science"...I trust neither scientist nor preacher...because they're both human. I do, however, trust God. This stuff comes out of prayer and the word of God. I don't even read science journals. So I'll make my arguments using the word of God, not scientist or preacher.
OK..sorry that part took so long. Back to the main point.
Evolution cannot function without death. Therefore, 'evolution' cannot be a tool God used unless death was possible, present and functioning PRIOR TO Adam sinning.
Ultimately I intend to show you biblically that death was not only in effect and functioning PRIOR to sin...It was implemented by God as a part of the creation structure.
So...
Would you like to consider that the death of man is something different than the death of an animal, which is different than the death of plant?... or would you like to consider that death is death no matter which group?
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Frilled Shark: The "Sea Serpent" Shark
Frilled Sharks Are Known As "Living Fossils"
The freakish-looking frilled shark is seen so rarely by humans that it makes headlines every time one is found. There’s a lot we still don’t know about this serpent-like deep sea shark.
The frilled shark (Chlamydoselachus anguineus) is one of two extant species of shark in the family Chlamydoselachidae, with a wide but patchy distribution in the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. This species is found over the outer continental shelf and upper continental slope, generally near the bottom, though there is evidence of substantial upward movements. It has been caught as deep as 1,570 m (5,150 ft), although it is uncommon below 1,200 m (3,900 ft).[2] In Suruga Bay, Japan, it is most common at depths of 50–200 m (160–660 ft). Exhibiting several "primitive" features, the frilled shark has often been termed a "living fossil". It reaches a length of 2 m (6.6 ft) and has a dark brown, eel-like body with the dorsal, pelvic, and anal fins placed far back. Its common name comes from the frilly or fringed appearance of its six pairs of gill slits, with the first pair meeting across the throat.
The frilled shark is so unique that scientists place it in its own family. And though they are usually categorized in the same order as cowsharks (Hexanchiformes), some scientists say the frilled sharks should have a separate order as well.
Like cowsharks, frilled sharks are members of some of the most ancient groups of sharks still in existence. Both have extra gills, big mouths, eyes on the sides of their heads, spineless back fins, and an unusual arrangement of vertebrae.
The fossil record for frilled sharks dates back to 95 million years ago, though some paleontologists believe they are closely related to sharks that lived as long as 300 million years ago. The frilled shark is one of the few sharks adapted to its challenging deep-water habitat. Without the competition faced by sharks living closer to the surface, the frilled shark has retained many primitive-seeming features. As the only surviving species in its family, it’s often called a “living fossil.”
Until recently, only one living species of frilled shark was known to science. But in 2009, it was confirmed that a specimen caught off the coast of Namibia was in fact a distinct species. Named the Southern African frilled shark, this new frilled shark species is slightly smaller than its close cousin, with a longer head and longer gill slits. It’s found from southern Angola to southern Namibia.
I dont believe 95 or 300 million years but however long it hasnt changed in all our evidence of it...
Adam was the first human soul, through Adam death came to all his descendants, future human souls.
Through Adam came physical death after the flesh and spiritual death as in separation from God because of sin.
See how it does not say that death came to all living things, death for all living things was already in the world.
Just Adam and the human souls.
I have heard it said that there are many many undiscovered species still out there.
When will we find the infamous yeti is the real question
The ocean is ful of undiscovered species, as we seem to find new ones for as long as I can remmeber, very interesting indded!
That elusive yeti! the apple of the Hendersons eye! lol
I agree with you. I think anyone who accepts evolution is an idiot. Many Christians that claim to believe that the Scripture is telling the truth about Y-shua, that some man claimed to be god, died on a cross rose on the third day coming back again is the savior of the world, then turn around and say He did not know what He is talking about in Gen. are equal to an atheist. I mean isn't that foolishness. It's all foolishness to those who do not believe. ALL 66 BOOKS EVEN GENIUSNESS ARE THE INFALLIBLE, INERRANT WORD OF G-D!!!! My dad tells me I have to believe even people that believe in evolution can really be saved, but for me I question that!!!! Thank G-d, He (G-d) decides who is saved and not me!!!
When we read the scripture below in how creation and all living things await the manifestations of the sons of God, then what for, unless to be liberated by the same curse that was brought on them all because of one man's sin?
Romans 8:[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,[SUP]21 [/SUP]Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.[SUP] 22[/SUP]For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
2 Timothy 4:1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;[SUP] 2 [/SUP]Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;[SUP] 4 [/SUP]And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.[SUP]5 [/SUP]But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:[SUP]8 [/SUP]Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
1 Timothy 6:[SUP]20 [/SUP]O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:[SUP] 21 [/SUP]Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
1 Timothy 6:[SUP]20 [/SUP]O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:[SUP] 21 [/SUP]Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
Personally, I think the "creature" in those verses = the physical part of us (as opposed to our soul and/or spirit) and the "whole creation" means the combination of our physical body and spiritual self". BUT, my point isn't whether the entirety of creation (plants, animals, planets, etc) will be better off when the adoption happens... My point is that death was happening in creation PRIOR to Adam's sin, and it was established by God himself, and NOT because of sin.
Adam's sin brought a death in a way that was not intended by God. But there was death already built in and functioning in creation itself. <--- I'm surprised that you're not directly questioning or refuting this particular claim.
I also hope you realize that the "oppositions of science" part doesn't apply to me because I am not, and won't be using science to prove the point... just scripture. But I would still like it if you'd answer the question posed at the end of post #288.
I think you have a very different view on inspiration than me. While you probably think it something similar to automatic writing of spiritists, I think that it was actually the human author who wrote in his language and in his ideas, he was only "moved by" the Holy Spirit, inspired.
What, no prophecys in gen. ?
1.A prediction, or Reveled knowledge from God..
Genesis 3:15 (KJV)
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed;
it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Enoch was A prophet before the flood.
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying,
Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Deuteronomy 32:8 (KJV)
When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance,
when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of
the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
It's easier to teach people to fear/hate/reject something 'new' than it is to teach them how to discern the pieces that are correct from the pieces that erroneous within that same new concept. <--think about that for a minute and decide for yourself whether it is true.
People have been taught to fear/hate/reject even the word "evolve" because of how much they have been taught to hate/fear the word "evolution". And THAT without even looking into the truth of what it means. (BTW, I'm not talking about the doctrine of evolution, just the word "evolve".) If you were taught (or have learned) to hate the word "evolve", please let me ask you this... Have you ever even looked it up to see what it means?".
e·volve
ēˈvälv/
verb
We're fine saying Jesus expects to see his disciples "develop, progress, advance" ...but if we use a different word to express the same thing..."Jesus expects to see his disciples "evolve" ...we're likely to be labeled as heretics. Have you considered how absurd that is??
ab·surd
əbˈsərd,əbˈzərd/
adjective
People have been taught to fear/hate/reject even the word "evolve" because of how much they have been taught to hate/fear the word "evolution". And THAT without even looking into the truth of what it means. (BTW, I'm not talking about the doctrine of evolution, just the word "evolve".) If you were taught (or have learned) to hate the word "evolve", please let me ask you this... Have you ever even looked it up to see what it means?".
e·volve
ēˈvälv/
verb
- 1.
develop gradually, especially from a simple to a more complex form.
"the company has evolved into a major chemical manufacturer"
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]develop, progress, advance;[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
We're fine saying Jesus expects to see his disciples "develop, progress, advance" ...but if we use a different word to express the same thing..."Jesus expects to see his disciples "evolve" ...we're likely to be labeled as heretics. Have you considered how absurd that is??
ab·surd
əbˈsərd,əbˈzərd/
adjective
- wildly unreasonable, illogical, or inappropriate.
"the allegations are patently absurd"
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]preposterous, ridiculous, ludicrous, farcical, laughable, risible, idiotic, silly, inane, imbecilic, insane, harebrained, cockamamie; More
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]- arousing amusement or derision; ridiculous.
Last edited: