Theology—beneficial or source of endless debating?
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I believe the word fear is being misunderstood
Psa_111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Pro_1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Pro_9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Pro_15:33 The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.
using Strong's the meaning of the word fear in these verses is
yir-aw'
Feminine of H3373; fear (also used as infinitive); morally reverence: - X dreadful, X exceedingly, fear (-fulness).
I see the use of the word fear like NOT the fear of a mean big dog but the fear of failing or going on stage
Psa_111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Pro_1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Pro_9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Pro_15:33 The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.
using Strong's the meaning of the word fear in these verses is
yir-aw'
Feminine of H3373; fear (also used as infinitive); morally reverence: - X dreadful, X exceedingly, fear (-fulness).
I see the use of the word fear like NOT the fear of a mean big dog but the fear of failing or going on stage
I like to talk about "Truth Streams" that flow throughout the bible. Identifying these is a sure bet that you are hearing what God intended to say to us by giving us the Bible.
I realize that many people in the church don't like the word Theology because they define it as something that belongs to the academically trained in seminaries and not accessible to the common folk.
So I talk about little streams of Truth that flow throughout the bible that God has decided to emphasize over and over for our learning as very important Truths we are to grasp. Most people get that and embrace it and are hungry for that.
When I teach or preach I don't use the word Exegesis. It rubs people the wrong way. I take the long route and I talk about how we want to identify as much as we possibly can, what the author intended for us to understand when he wrote this. If we could ask him what would he tell us? And since we can't ask him we can do our best to figure it out using rules of interpretation like the context and finding other things the author wrote on the same subject. Everyone loves that and it helps them learn how to read the bible and gain understanding while trusting in the Holy Spirit to help them since they know that the Holy Spirit will not tell them that the scriptures mean something different than what the inspired author was trying to communicate. I get a solid agreement on that from everyone.
But use the word Exegesis and many cringe and tune out.
In academic circles one can use all the shortcut words. Otherwise they have to come up with long winded paragraphs in order to communicate the big thoughts these one words are intended to communicate, but unfortunately don't for most people in a congregation.
Our goal should always be to communicate. If we use words that communicate the wrong things to people than what we mean we must come up with different words that communicate accurately what we mean. That is why I use "Truth Streams" and then explain that idea. I don't tell them that I just defined the word Theology. I don't want to trigger them, and lose them after we are already on the same page. LOL
I realize that many people in the church don't like the word Theology because they define it as something that belongs to the academically trained in seminaries and not accessible to the common folk.
So I talk about little streams of Truth that flow throughout the bible that God has decided to emphasize over and over for our learning as very important Truths we are to grasp. Most people get that and embrace it and are hungry for that.
When I teach or preach I don't use the word Exegesis. It rubs people the wrong way. I take the long route and I talk about how we want to identify as much as we possibly can, what the author intended for us to understand when he wrote this. If we could ask him what would he tell us? And since we can't ask him we can do our best to figure it out using rules of interpretation like the context and finding other things the author wrote on the same subject. Everyone loves that and it helps them learn how to read the bible and gain understanding while trusting in the Holy Spirit to help them since they know that the Holy Spirit will not tell them that the scriptures mean something different than what the inspired author was trying to communicate. I get a solid agreement on that from everyone.
But use the word Exegesis and many cringe and tune out.
In academic circles one can use all the shortcut words. Otherwise they have to come up with long winded paragraphs in order to communicate the big thoughts these one words are intended to communicate, but unfortunately don't for most people in a congregation.
Our goal should always be to communicate. If we use words that communicate the wrong things to people than what we mean we must come up with different words that communicate accurately what we mean. That is why I use "Truth Streams" and then explain that idea. I don't tell them that I just defined the word Theology. I don't want to trigger them, and lose them after we are already on the same page. LOL
It means that to follow Christ requires the faith that is willing to be put to death by men who want to kill you for being a Christian. But if that happens don't be afraid of these men who only have power to kill your body and after that there is nothing that they can do.
If you are dealing with the real fear that would be involved when they told them, "Deny Christ and you can go home, otherwise we are going to feed you to the Lions in the Coliseum on Saturday" Remember that you should not fear them, they can only kill the Body, but you will live forever. However if you deny Christ, you are facing something far worse, eternal hell. Fear Him in that moment and deny your desire to save your body. Let the Fear of the Judge who is able to cast into hell, help you make the right decision in that moment when your "love for Him" might need some additional help. Because He is not going to say "you meant well, you get a pass." And when you realize that, it is a healthy and positive Fear that keeps you on the straight and narrow path.
I want to serve God out of Love but I also know that if I don't there is a hell waiting. That is a big motivator in overcoming temptations and compromise. In my opinion not having this fear of hell is why so many "christians" are doing things that shock me. They think they are not going to have to answer for it. And I recall the words of Jesus...
He said to them, 24“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door,a because I tell you, many will try to enter and won’t be able 25once the homeowner gets up and shuts the door.a Then you will stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up for us! ’ He will answer you, ‘I don’t know you or where you’re from.’ 26Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27But he will say, ‘I tell you, I don’t know you or where you’re from. Get away from me,a all you evildoers! ’ 28There will be weeping and gnashing of teetha in that place,...
He says "I don't know where you're from" This results in weeping and gnashing of teeth. I fear that enough to say no to sins, backslidings, and compromise.
Don't you?
If you are dealing with the real fear that would be involved when they told them, "Deny Christ and you can go home, otherwise we are going to feed you to the Lions in the Coliseum on Saturday" Remember that you should not fear them, they can only kill the Body, but you will live forever. However if you deny Christ, you are facing something far worse, eternal hell. Fear Him in that moment and deny your desire to save your body. Let the Fear of the Judge who is able to cast into hell, help you make the right decision in that moment when your "love for Him" might need some additional help. Because He is not going to say "you meant well, you get a pass." And when you realize that, it is a healthy and positive Fear that keeps you on the straight and narrow path.
I want to serve God out of Love but I also know that if I don't there is a hell waiting. That is a big motivator in overcoming temptations and compromise. In my opinion not having this fear of hell is why so many "christians" are doing things that shock me. They think they are not going to have to answer for it. And I recall the words of Jesus...
He said to them, 24“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door,a because I tell you, many will try to enter and won’t be able 25once the homeowner gets up and shuts the door.a Then you will stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up for us! ’ He will answer you, ‘I don’t know you or where you’re from.’ 26Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27But he will say, ‘I tell you, I don’t know you or where you’re from. Get away from me,a all you evildoers! ’ 28There will be weeping and gnashing of teetha in that place,...
He says "I don't know where you're from" This results in weeping and gnashing of teeth. I fear that enough to say no to sins, backslidings, and compromise.
Don't you?
I agree with your first paragraphs there but I don’t understand the rest because I don’t serve and love God out of fear but out of Love and Appreciation.
First of all if someone says Deny God or I’ll shoot you, then I’ll tell them to go ahead and shoot. That’s doesn’t phase me.
‘But even if God doesn’t love me and condemns me to hell, I would still love Him. So I don’t do things out of fear because to me that seems like you’re infringing on Free Will. God is the supreme creator of this universe so by that definition He’s all powerful, and that’s exactly Why I love Him and appreciate Him. Because He put me here in His Creation as a guest so I can appreciate Him and praise Him and love Him.
First of all if someone says Deny God or I’ll shoot you, then I’ll tell them to go ahead and shoot. That’s doesn’t phase me.
‘But even if God doesn’t love me and condemns me to hell, I would still love Him. So I don’t do things out of fear because to me that seems like you’re infringing on Free Will. God is the supreme creator of this universe so by that definition He’s all powerful, and that’s exactly Why I love Him and appreciate Him. Because He put me here in His Creation as a guest so I can appreciate Him and praise Him and love Him.
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Well, while I disagree, perhaps one of the reasons you feel that way is because Catholic Bibles have 7 extra books that Protestant Bibles don't have. In a Council in Rome under Pope Damasus in 382, the Catholic Church determined the Canon of Scripture, including the 27 Book NT Canon we all accept. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Rome But the OT canon always contained 46 books, not 39. During the Reformation, after over 1000 of universal acceptance of the canonicity of these books, these 7 books (1 and 2 Maccabees, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch and Tobit) were taken out. The difference is mostly due to these books, for e.g. they teach that we should pray for the faithful departed, and that the Saints in Heaven pray for us. Regarding Christ and the NT, we differ very little, all told. But these books do belong in the Bible imho, and thus if they are removed, a difference in theology will occur. That's what occurred at the Reformation.
God Bless.
God Bless.
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That is good. You should love God with all your heart, mind, body and strength and this should be your ever waking motivation.
However, when Jesus says, to fear him that has the power to cast into hell it was in contrast to the fear of man. They were going to face these choices and Jesus tells them what they will need to know. Let's not tell Jesus he should have said something else.
Jesus said in another place, "If you Love me you will keep my word" And in many other places He emphasized that those who hear his Word and does them are those that are his near relations, mother, brother sister.
When we agree to obey Jesus and "fear Him who has the power to cast into hell" then we are loving Jesus. It would not be love for Jesus if we did not agree with these instructions that Jesus gave us.
The fear of hell definitely keeps me on the path of holiness. I fell into a time of backsliding after my marriage of 23 years ended. I started drinking heavily and became addicted to it. It was the fear of God and the fear of hell that made me so miserable in that state that gave me the motivation to do whatever was necessary to get free from that sin. I was afraid of waking up in hell with eternal regret. The whole time I was doing it I believed that I still Loved God, but I was not obeying Him so I really did not love Him the way Jesus preached about loving Him. And I KNEW IT. I could not deny that I was not loving him enough to quit drinking. But the fear of waking up in hell with eternal regret was the motivator that help me get back to the true Love of God of obeying His Word.
I preach both, Love God more than sin, and also fear Him who is able to cast into hell. I do not see them as a contradiction. They always belong together. They are fused into one truth.
22Have mercy on those who waver; 23save others by snatching them from the fire; have mercy on others but with fear, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.
24Now to him who is able to protect you from stumbling and to make you stand in the presence of his glory, without blemish and with great joy, 25to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, power, and authority before all time, now and forever. Amen.
However, when Jesus says, to fear him that has the power to cast into hell it was in contrast to the fear of man. They were going to face these choices and Jesus tells them what they will need to know. Let's not tell Jesus he should have said something else.
Jesus said in another place, "If you Love me you will keep my word" And in many other places He emphasized that those who hear his Word and does them are those that are his near relations, mother, brother sister.
When we agree to obey Jesus and "fear Him who has the power to cast into hell" then we are loving Jesus. It would not be love for Jesus if we did not agree with these instructions that Jesus gave us.
The fear of hell definitely keeps me on the path of holiness. I fell into a time of backsliding after my marriage of 23 years ended. I started drinking heavily and became addicted to it. It was the fear of God and the fear of hell that made me so miserable in that state that gave me the motivation to do whatever was necessary to get free from that sin. I was afraid of waking up in hell with eternal regret. The whole time I was doing it I believed that I still Loved God, but I was not obeying Him so I really did not love Him the way Jesus preached about loving Him. And I KNEW IT. I could not deny that I was not loving him enough to quit drinking. But the fear of waking up in hell with eternal regret was the motivator that help me get back to the true Love of God of obeying His Word.
I preach both, Love God more than sin, and also fear Him who is able to cast into hell. I do not see them as a contradiction. They always belong together. They are fused into one truth.
22Have mercy on those who waver; 23save others by snatching them from the fire; have mercy on others but with fear, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.
24Now to him who is able to protect you from stumbling and to make you stand in the presence of his glory, without blemish and with great joy, 25to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, power, and authority before all time, now and forever. Amen.
‘This tells me a couple of things which are also related to this topic.
Based on your experience, you are putting some emphasis on fear.
But based on my experience, which factors in human suffering which is a very debilitating topic when discussed in detail, I arrive at Love
because He is my Hope in the face of human suffering. This is why I love Him even more. He was here and suffered with us, so this gives me Hope and an answer to the difficult question of Human Suffering. This makes me love Him even more and give up my life and everything for Him. So I don’t fear him because of some instructions, I love Him because He is my hope.
So Free Will explains why we arrive at different interpretations of the Bible. I’d like to think we are all Right. Because Christ is the common unifying Key in all denominations despite our disagreements.
Based on your experience, you are putting some emphasis on fear.
But based on my experience, which factors in human suffering which is a very debilitating topic when discussed in detail, I arrive at Love
because He is my Hope in the face of human suffering. This is why I love Him even more. He was here and suffered with us, so this gives me Hope and an answer to the difficult question of Human Suffering. This makes me love Him even more and give up my life and everything for Him. So I don’t fear him because of some instructions, I love Him because He is my hope.
So Free Will explains why we arrive at different interpretations of the Bible. I’d like to think we are all Right. Because Christ is the common unifying Key in all denominations despite our disagreements.
Well, it's like the "religion bad, relationship good" threads. It's semantic. To me, "theology" is another term for "bible study", which we are supposed to do. Having guideance from the Lord is obviously crucial; but I do not believe it takes away our own responsibility to study the word. It's like we can't add an inch to our own stature, but we still eat food; we don't just trust God to make us grow, but not do the things that help us grow.
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Theology was designed for institutions of learning, not for ordinary Christians. It originated from the Scholasticism of the Catholic church, but continued with the Protestants, and then with the Evangelicals. Gradually it became almost automatic for pastors to go to seminaries (just as priests were required to attend seminaries) in order to be "academically qualified" to preach.
The issue of "gifts and calling" was more or less set aside. But that is not how the New Testament pattern was set up. Jesus and the apostles avoided the rabbinic schools altogether (even Paul set aside his theological background after his conversion, being taught directly by Christ). Churches were to have elders who would teach faithful men sound Bible doctrine, with the Holy Spirit as the divine Teacher. But all that changed shortly after the passing of the apostles.
However it became the standard operating procedure for churches to have pastors attend seminaries and receive academic degrees. Today most churches want their pastors to have a Master of Theology degree (at the very least) to even be considered for a "job". Theology does lock in its adherents to systems of interpretation used by their denominations. For example, Wayne Grudem's theology is Calvinistic, so those reading his book will be influenced in that direction (which is a false gospel). Many other theologians were also of the Reformed persuasion in the past.
So people need to study theologies keeping in mind that some ideas could be misleading. For example, Amillennialism is the standard eschatology of some denominations. So they will oppose any other interpretations.
The issue of "gifts and calling" was more or less set aside. But that is not how the New Testament pattern was set up. Jesus and the apostles avoided the rabbinic schools altogether (even Paul set aside his theological background after his conversion, being taught directly by Christ). Churches were to have elders who would teach faithful men sound Bible doctrine, with the Holy Spirit as the divine Teacher. But all that changed shortly after the passing of the apostles.
However it became the standard operating procedure for churches to have pastors attend seminaries and receive academic degrees. Today most churches want their pastors to have a Master of Theology degree (at the very least) to even be considered for a "job". Theology does lock in its adherents to systems of interpretation used by their denominations. For example, Wayne Grudem's theology is Calvinistic, so those reading his book will be influenced in that direction (which is a false gospel). Many other theologians were also of the Reformed persuasion in the past.
So people need to study theologies keeping in mind that some ideas could be misleading. For example, Amillennialism is the standard eschatology of some denominations. So they will oppose any other interpretations.
It may be the beginning of wisdom but is it the end of it also?
As we should all know, fear does not always translate to the type of fear that causes
anxiety, especially given all the admonitions to fear not, and not live in anxiety, to trust
the Lord with all our heart, mind, body, and soul. Fear also means respect, and due reverence,
for in knowing Who He is we acknowledge His awesome power, sovereignty, and above all, love.
As we should all know, fear does not always translate to the type of fear that causes
anxiety, especially given all the admonitions to fear not, and not live in anxiety, to trust
the Lord with all our heart, mind, body, and soul. Fear also means respect, and due reverence,
for in knowing Who He is we acknowledge His awesome power, sovereignty, and above all, love.
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I don't think we are arriving at different interpretations.
I don't disagree with the points you make about the motivation of Love vs fear. I believe born again Christians don't live in fear of hell. They rejoice that they are saved from it.
You haven't actually given an interpretation of the following scripture:
Luke 12:4And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him
I am sure that you agree with Jesus. He is "forewarning" them of something.
Many of them were later killed for their faith. In that hour I am sure this saying of Jesus gave them strength and hope.
When they beat the disciples and told them to stop preaching the resurrection of the dead in Jesus name, they said what is better to obey man or God? And the answer is. ...
Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him
I don't disagree with the points you make about the motivation of Love vs fear. I believe born again Christians don't live in fear of hell. They rejoice that they are saved from it.
You haven't actually given an interpretation of the following scripture:
Luke 12:4And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him
I am sure that you agree with Jesus. He is "forewarning" them of something.
Many of them were later killed for their faith. In that hour I am sure this saying of Jesus gave them strength and hope.
When they beat the disciples and told them to stop preaching the resurrection of the dead in Jesus name, they said what is better to obey man or God? And the answer is. ...
Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him