Theology vrs analogy

[pottersclay]

Throughout the bible God uses anology to decribe his word and its meaning.
Jesus also teaches anology in his parables and decribing things relating to the kingdom and his purpose along with decribing the father to us.
Now i have never come aross any preaching in the old or new which deals with theology.
Yet in todays preaching this is brought up as a part of almost every teaching and sermon as a way to understand the word.
When you look up the word theology it deals almost specifically with christanity and its teachings.
Imo theology has discredited Gods word and brought about much confusion in the understanding of scripture.
It has divided many saints on issues of eschatology as well as salvation issues and our understanding on doctrinal matters.
But im a very simple man with very simple thoughts so i ask this forum do you agree with this or am in lack of understanding?

Translate and interpet are two seperate things which seem to be misused by many. This also has a over all effect on the word of God. Are we to interpet Gods word? Or translate it to the original language or from its original language? For its right mean and content.

I look back at what satan said in the garden "did GOD say" and what a profound question this was.
It seem to have had a ripple effect throughout all history. It seems many cannot agree on simple truths.

It seems that the teaching on foundational truths has taken a back seat to theology and interpretation.

I dont know maybe i need more sleep...lol.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I guess that I've thought of the word "theology" as an explanation of a specific teaching on a specific subject.

It seems obvious (to me) that people much smarter than I should translate from original, or closest to original manuscripts into a language of choice.

And, it seems obvious (to me) that we should interpret Scripture based upon Scripture, which would require an understanding of the analogies (including the living analogies of the lives of people in how they relate to events).

In my opinion, I'd recommend that people read the entire Bible in a timeline, chronological order and begin to catalog as many Biblical concepts as possible. I use Excel and have compiled my own dictionary (of sorts) with my own wording (to make it easy to search and find results quickly). I'm not bragging or boasting, but expressing that my Excel spreadsheet has 6,132 entries where each of them is categorized, with one cell with the set of Scriptures and another with personal commentary. The cell with personal commentary includes questions as I seek for answers. As I found the answers to my questions, I slowly developed a solid (in my opinion) understanding of root concepts. If I lost this spreadsheet, I would be absolutely devastated. It is my magnum opus of all things that I have ever done in my life. It is the culmination of thousands of hours of work; the greatest and most beneficial thing I have ever accomplished in my life.

Simply put, I am astounded that God would put this idea into my head. I take no credit whatsoever, for the Lord created the way for me to be able to have the time to put together such an incredible project. I wish that everyone would do the same thing.

 

[Aaron56]

I guess that I've thought of the word "theology" as an explanation of a specific teaching on a specific subject.

It seems obvious (to me) that people much smarter than I should translate from original, or closest to original manuscripts into a language of choice.

And, it seems obvious (to me) that we should interpret Scripture based upon Scripture, which would require an understanding of the analogies (including the living analogies of the lives of people in how they relate to events).

In my opinion, I'd recommend that people read the entire Bible in a timeline, chronological order and begin to catalog as many Biblical concepts as possible. I use Excel and have compiled my own dictionary (of sorts) with my own wording (to make it easy to search and find results quickly). I'm not bragging or boasting, but expressing that my Excel spreadsheet has 6,132 entries where each of them is categorized, with one cell with the set of Scriptures and another with personal commentary. The cell with personal commentary includes questions as I seek for answers. As I found the answers to my questions, I slowly developed a solid (in my opinion) understanding of root concepts. If I lost this spreadsheet, I would be absolutely devastated. It is my magnum opus of all things that I have ever done in my life. It is the culmination of thousands of hours of work; the greatest and most beneficial thing I have ever accomplished in my life.

Simply put, I am astounded that God would put this idea into my head. I take no credit whatsoever, for the Lord created the way for me to be able to have the time to put together such an incredible project. I wish that everyone would do the same thing.

Perhaps you should get with a programmer and make your work into an app. It sounds like it could benefit the whole body of Christ.

 

[Aaron56]

Throughout the bible God uses anology to decribe his word and its meaning.
Jesus also teaches anology in his parables and decribing things relating to the kingdom and his purpose along with decribing the father to us.
Now i have never come aross any preaching in the old or new which deals with theology.
Yet in todays preaching this is brought up as a part of almost every teaching and sermon as a way to understand the word.
When you look up the word theology it deals almost specifically with christanity and its teachings.
Imo theology has discredited Gods word and brought about much confusion in the understanding of scripture.
It has divided many saints on issues of eschatology as well as salvation issues and our understanding on doctrinal matters.
But im a very simple man with very simple thoughts so i ask this forum do you agree with this or am in lack of understanding?

Translate and interpet are two seperate things which seem to be misused by many. This also has a over all effect on the word of God. Are we to interpet Gods word? Or translate it to the original language or from its original language? For its right mean and content.

I look back at what satan said in the garden "did GOD say" and what a profound question this was.
It seem to have had a ripple effect throughout all history. It seems many cannot agree on simple truths.

It seems that the teaching on foundational truths has taken a back seat to theology and interpretation.

I dont know maybe i need more sleep...lol.

If I may…

Many of the logicians and theologians who have mishandled the word came out of the Age of Reason. They forgot that the Word is spirit and, instead, leveraged logic and reason to develop their commentaries.

If my wife wrote me a letter and the meaning of its contents was in question who would you believe: me or a Professor Emeritus in Linguistics from Harvard? The truth remains that not everyone is given the meaning of scripture at the same level. Some are given the understanding of mysteries. Others are not. Much of the difference comes with maturity. But so what? The body is designed to edify itself by the grace each one is given. The teachers need students, the students teachers. The old, the young and so on. Today, a man can exhault himself as a teacher of the Word or go to seminary for a college degree that declares he is a “pastor”. Such things are foreign in the Kingdom of God.

 

[Artios1]

I guess that I've thought of the word "theology" as an explanation of a specific teaching on a specific subject.

It seems obvious (to me) that people much smarter than I should translate from original, or closest to original manuscripts into a language of choice.

And, it seems obvious (to me) that we should interpret Scripture based upon Scripture, which would require an understanding of the analogies (including the living analogies of the lives of people in how they relate to events).

In my opinion, I'd recommend that people read the entire Bible in a timeline, chronological order and begin to catalog as many Biblical concepts as possible. I use Excel and have compiled my own dictionary (of sorts) with my own wording (to make it easy to search and find results quickly). I'm not bragging or boasting, but expressing that my Excel spreadsheet has 6,132 entries where each of them is categorized, with one cell with the set of Scriptures and another with personal commentary. The cell with personal commentary includes questions as I seek for answers. As I found the answers to my questions, I slowly developed a solid (in my opinion) understanding of root concepts. If I lost this spreadsheet, I would be absolutely devastated. It is my magnum opus of all things that I have ever done in my life. It is the culmination of thousands of hours of work; the greatest and most beneficial thing I have ever accomplished in my life.

Simply put, I am astounded that God would put this idea into my head. I take no credit whatsoever, for the Lord created the way for me to be able to have the time to put together such an incredible project. I wish that everyone would do the same thing.

That is quite an accomplishment ....I love it! ....And I agree with Aaron56 it definitely would benefit the whole body of Christ.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Perhaps you should get with a programmer and make your work into an app. It sounds like it could benefit the whole body of Christ.

Wow. That's quite a compliment. However, at the risk of losing any sense of humility, I am hesitant to agree. Thank you!!

It really is pretty cool. I've got a column that keeps track of each Scripture according to the daily reading schedule, meaning that I can sort the entire set of 6,132 passages into timeline, chronological order. Or, I can just sort them according to book and chapter. That said, I, 99% of the time, have all Scripture sorted according to the daily reading plan, which means that all Scripture is in chronological order of the events actually taking place. With intense scrutiny, and as I began to read the entire Bible, I took note of all things that were unbelievably interesting, such as the Lord predicting how he would cause Israel to kill, cook, eat, and hide the remained of their children's bodies as God would create such intense famine. Or, logging the Seven Nations and Sub-Nations of the abominations that came from Canaan. I kept track of all passages that deal with pre-law, the Law of Moses, the moral law, and the Laws of the Spirit of Life and was able to see them according to the timeline, and chronological order. I could just go on and on and on. I must have over 100 categories by which I can sort and manipulate.

Every day of my life I am astounded at and over the Raw, Almighty Power of God.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

That is quite an accomplishment ....I love it! ....And I agree with [B]Aaron56[/B] it definitely would benefit the whole body of Christ.

Wow, very humbling. I hardly know what to say. Thank you so much.

 

[Artios1]

Wow, very humbling. I hardly know what to say. Thank you so much.

It’s great work ….I am impressed. You may take it for granted, but I really do believe it would be an asset and great blessing to many….myself included.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It’s great work ….I am impressed. You may take it for granted, but I really do believe it would be an asset and great blessing to many….myself included.

Oh, my friend . . . I do not take it for granted. It is a Work inspired by the Lord. I'd send you a copy but I admit that there are errors in my thinking that I'd hate for you to trust and believe. As my understanding changes over the years, the data (my notes) are also updated. Again, I don't take it for granted, for without it I wouldn't be able to comment on Scripture as I sometimes do. Others, here, have amazing memories and have apparently been inspired by God to recall Scriptures . . . that's not me. So, I depend on collecting data so that I can process it and express it. I'm getting "old" so I have to compensate. haha

 

[Blain]

Wow. That's quite a compliment. However, at the risk of losing any sense of humility, I am hesitant to agree. Thank you!!

It really is pretty cool. I've got a column that keeps track of each Scripture according to the daily reading schedule, meaning that I can sort the entire set of 6,132 passages into timeline, chronological order. Or, I can just sort them according to book and chapter. That said, I, 99% of the time, have all Scripture sorted according to the daily reading plan, which means that all Scripture is in chronological order of the events actually taking place. With intense scrutiny, and as I began to read the entire Bible, I took note of all things that were unbelievably interesting, such as the Lord predicting how he would cause Israel to kill, cook, eat, and hide the remained of their children's bodies as God would create such intense famine. Or, logging the Seven Nations and Sub-Nations of the abominations that came from Canaan. I kept track of all passages that deal with pre-law, the Law of Moses, the moral law, and the Laws of the Spirit of Life and was able to see them according to the timeline, and chronological order. I could just go on and on and on. I must have over 100 categories by which I can sort and manipulate.

Every day of my life I am astounded at and over the Raw, Almighty Power of God.

you don't have to agree i agree for you my friend.

 

[Blain]

The thing about the word of God is that it has many layers like an onion or the earths crust one who studies theology may be able to go into a few layers but the word of God was meant to be read by the spirit not by logic it requires a simple heart and we forget that he reveals the hidden things to those who are like children he treasures those who don't think themselves wise but are meek humble and simple.

We have dissected the word over complicated it divided and sperated it charted it and yet all you have is division confusion interpretation after interpretation belief vs belief view opposing view yet those who simply don't complicate things who just love the word and take it into their hearts are the ones in which the truth is revealed not those who claim to have studied it exhaustively who know every verse who know their doctrines and hold fast to their theology but the ones who live and love in the spirit who treasure the word of God with that of a childs heart who don't like to complicate things.

Remember the pharisees knew the scriptures well too yet the ones who were closest to Jesus were simple men

 

[pottersclay]

Isaiah 55:8-9

New International Version



8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Do you think that because this was in the old testament it was written for just israel?
Absolutely not.
This is a declaration of the Lord himself to all.
If the Lord wants something hidden it wont be found. If he wants it to be revealed it will be revealed.
God is in charge of all things including his word and its timing.
Again i point back to satans question.."did God say" which is a suggestive question.
Theology in its basic form is also suggestive. A assumption. Not a proven absolute. Which can rob a person of the truth.
Jesus said
New American Standard Bible
“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Could Jesus be also including theology in this passage?

 

[Artios1]

Oh, my friend . . . I do not take it for granted. It is a Work inspired by the Lord. I'd send you a copy but I admit that there are errors in my thinking that I'd hate for you to trust and believe. As my understanding changes over the years, the data (my notes) are also updated. Again, I don't take it for granted, for without it I wouldn't be able to comment on Scripture as I sometimes do. Others, here, have amazing memories and have apparently been inspired by God to recall Scriptures . . . that's not me. So, I depend on collecting data so that I can process it and express it. I'm getting "old" so I have to compensate. haha

I got the memory, but not the aptitude or the patience for what you do…..actually the memory thing has waned a bit over the years or I am just not putting the time into it I used to.
I have all of Ephesians memorized and most of Romans …but I found if I don’t recite it frequently, I mess up …that is mostly true of Romans…. Ephesians I could do in my sleep. Not for any special reason just a quirky thing…. someone once told me ...our minds were made to hold the Word of God ….well ok ….I’ll try that. Of course if you ask me what year it is ….I may or may not get that right.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Now i have never come across any preaching in the old or new which deals with theology.

Naturally the word "theology" is not found in the Bible. But according to Theopedia, there is nothing wrong with theology per se. Here is their definition: "Theology (from the Greek theos - God - and logos - word or reason) is reasoned discourse concerning God. More specifically, Christian theology is the rational study and understanding of the nature of God and doctrines of the Christian faith based on the God's revelation of Himself, chiefly found in the Bible."

Now the question remains "Is reasoned discourse about God antithetical to the Bible"? Do we not see Paul using reasoned discourse all the time, and particularly when addressing the Athenians in Acts 17? When Paul lays out the fulness of the Gospel in the epistle to the Romans he does use reasoned discourse, since reason and faith go hand in hand. A good example is Romans chapters 4 and 5.

At the same time, we need to keep in mind that spiritual things are discerned spiritually. And even many who have the Holy Spirit stumble over many Bible truths. We see this constantly in the discussions regarding salvation by grace through faith vs salvation by grace + something else. The problem lies with theologians, not theology, and there is no conflict between theology and analogy or parables. However, the Reformed theologians were former Catholics, and had been trained in Scholasticism -- the system of theology and philosophy taught in medieval European universities, based on Aristotelian logic and the writings of the early Church Fathers and having a strong emphasis on tradition and dogma. As a result they made some errors in their theology. But there is no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[JaumeJ]

Theos may be translated fully as God.
Ology is simply the study of, realm of in some cases.

Now just who is able to study God? No man can fathom His mind, His wisdom, His knowledge, His understanding and somuch more. (by the way His knowledge is what He declares.)

We strive to learn His will for us, to please Him and to deny the creation in His favor at all times.

Praise our Creator, not what He has given us in this material world, that is to say not the creature.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

you don't have to agree i agree for you my friend.

Thank you, Blain.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Isaiah 55:8-9

New International Version



8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Do you think that because this was in the old testament it was written for just israel?
Absolutely not.
This is a declaration of the Lord himself to all.
If the Lord wants something hidden it wont be found. If he wants it to be revealed it will be revealed.
God is in charge of all things including his word and its timing.
Again i point back to satans question.."did God say" which is a suggestive question.
Theology in its basic form is also suggestive. A assumption. Not a proven absolute. Which can rob a person of the truth.
Jesus said
New American Standard Bible
“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Could Jesus be also including theology in this passage?

We have crystal clear Scripture that explains how certain ideas of God can be hidden from people. For some reason, no one quotes the below verses (and I can't understand why). Check this out:

Romans 11:7-8 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."

So, while Blain said (above) that the Pharisees knew the Scriptures, they were prevented from understanding them. They could have studied as hard as they could; memorized each word of the Holy Scriptures (that were available to them) word for word, but because God caused Spiritual Blindness, they would NEVER be able to understand them. And this is the Holy Purpose of Christ:

John 9:39-41 NLT - "Then Jesus told him, "I entered this world to render judgment--to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind." Some Pharisees who were standing nearby heard him and asked, "Are you saying we're blind?" "If you were blind, you wouldn't be guilty," Jesus replied. "But you remain guilty because you claim you can see."

Until a person is Circumcised of the Sinful Nature, which causes Spiritual Blindness, understanding the Word of God is utterly impossible; the Mysterious Plan cannot be ascertained nor understood.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I got the memory, but not the aptitude or the patience for what you do…..actually the memory thing has waned a bit over the years or I am just not putting the time into it I used to.
I have all of Ephesians memorized and most of Romans …but I found if I don’t recite it frequently, I mess up …that is mostly true of Romans…. Ephesians I could do in my sleep. Not for any special reason just a quirky thing…. someone once told me ...our minds were made to hold the Word of God ….well ok ….I’ll try that. Of course if you ask me what year it is ….I may or may not get that right.

Those are some serious accomplishments! To memorize those complete letters is amazing to me. I would think that to have memorized all of Romans would give a person a tremendous advantage to understanding so many aspects of the Plan of God. In my opinion, I don't think that there are any more than a handful of people who are able to "see" something like a "map" of Romans in their minds. From this Work that you have done, I think that I would enjoy talking with you face to face; the conversations might be remarkable.

 

[kenallen]

Throughout the bible God uses anology to decribe his word and its meaning.
Jesus also teaches anology in his parables and decribing things relating to the kingdom and his purpose along with decribing the father to us.
Now i have never come aross any preaching in the old or new which deals with theology.
Yet in todays preaching this is brought up as a part of almost every teaching and sermon as a way to understand the word.
When you look up the word theology it deals almost specifically with christanity and its teachings.
Imo theology has discredited Gods word and brought about much confusion in the understanding of scripture.
It has divided many saints on issues of eschatology as well as salvation issues and our understanding on doctrinal matters.
But im a very simple man with very simple thoughts so i ask this forum do you agree with this or am in lack of understanding?

Translate and interpet are two seperate things which seem to be misused by many. This also has a over all effect on the word of God. Are we to interpet Gods word? Or translate it to the original language or from its original language? For its right mean and content.

I look back at what satan said in the garden "did GOD say" and what a profound question this was.
It seem to have had a ripple effect throughout all history. It seems many cannot agree on simple truths.

It seems that the teaching on foundational truths has taken a back seat to theology and interpretation.

I dont know maybe i need more sleep...lol.

LOL you and me both. You have hit the nail right on the head. Jesus said The doctrine of men "theology or church" make void The Word of God.
If you will slow down read chapter by chapter and verse by verse God lays thangs out so clearly and yet we "man" love to just jump right in and muddy it all up. God's word rightly divided it brings healing to the soul, it brings joy to the soul there is nothing better under the sun.

 

[p_rehbein]

Imo theology has discredited Gods word and brought about much confusion in the understanding of scripture.
It has divided many saints on issues of eschatology as well as salvation issues and our understanding on doctrinal matters.
But im a very simple man with very simple thoughts so i ask this forum do you agree with this or am in lack of understanding?

I agree. The theologies of man have caused great divides among the Church. Scripture tells us how dire a mistake this is:

Mark, Chapter 7:

6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.