There is no such thing as Sola Scriptura

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Apr 30, 2013
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Sola Scriptura is the doctrine and practice of scripture alone, or that the Bible alone is the final authority on all matters of Christian faith. This doctrine is a complete and total fiction.

Being Catholic Christian, I, of course, reject this doctrine. I could list all the usual reasons that Catholic Christians and Rabbinical Jews give for rejecting this doctrine but the point is entirely moot as it's never practiced anyway.

In fact, Sola Scriptura (SS) is wholly impossible to practice due to the imprecise nature of language and because each and every person person has their own experiences, biases and prejudices, all of which influence and color the way that they understand language in general and the Bible specifically.

The Catholic Christian Church interprets the Bible by the guidance of the Oral Tradition that was first given to Moses from God at Mt. Sinai. Starting with Martin Luther, protestants increasingly abandoned the Oral Tradition. But instead of actually practicing SS, protestants just made up their own traditions or returned to pre-Christian pagan traditions and their man-made traditions became their authority instead. The result is that protestantism is divided into a million and one different denominations, all of which preach a different gospel with a different Jesus and a different doctrine and a different plan of salvation.

In some parts of the USA, namely the so-called "Bible Belt," one can find a different protestant establishment on literally every other street corner and each one is quite literally teaching and practicing a different religion and worshiping a different deity. Many of these religions have no similarity at all with each other beyond that they all claim the Bible as their sole authority and that they call their disparate deities by the same name, Jesus.
 
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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#2
Matthew 15

Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#3
Read the Bible and see how many have protested the doctrines and tradition of men throughout time.
 
Apr 30, 2013
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#4
Read the Bible and see how many have protested the doctrines and tradition of men throughout time.
If everyone, or at least the vast majority of everyone that read the Bible came to the same understanding of God and the Judeo-Christian religion, then you might have a point. Instead, what really happens is that people that "accept the Bible" but reject the Oral Tradition merely just mold the Judeo-Christian religion to fit their pre-Christian pagan traditions. Or they just invent a new tradition.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#5
If everyone, or at least the vast majority of everyone that read the Bible came to the same understanding of God and the Judeo-Christian religion, then you might have a point. Instead, what really happens is that people that "accept the Bible" but reject the Oral Tradition merely just mold the Judeo-Christian religion to fit their pre-Christian pagan traditions. Or they just invent a new tradition.
Do you not consider the catholic church a pagan religion?

It has all the hallmarks...
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#6
I believe we should accept the Bible only, i would not put my trust in oral traditions of men.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#7
Jeremy, have you read all of the Bible Old and New Testament?
 
Apr 21, 2012
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#8
I see no problem with a tradition so long as said tradition/s do not go against scripture.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#9
It seems you have not read in the Word about adding to or taking away from the Word of God. This is not to be practiced, not even by the majority of professing believers.

You should also read the curse accompanied by any who preach another gospel other than the one delivered by our Savior, Jesus Christ, not that there is another gospel.

I do not see the words, "sola scripture," anywhere in the Word, but it is written we are taught by God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ.

The entire world population may put anything to the vote and favor it, but this will never make a lie truth. Only our Father teaches truth to His Children. Worship God, believe Him.
Sola Scriptura is the doctrine and practice of scripture alone, or that the Bible alone is the final authority on all matters of Christian faith. This doctrine is a complete and total fiction.

Being Catholic Christian, I, of course, reject this doctrine. I could list all the usual reasons that Catholic Christians and Rabbinical Jews give for rejecting this doctrine but the point is entirely moot as it's never practiced anyway.

In fact, Sola Scriptura (SS) is wholly impossible to practice due to the imprecise nature of language and because each and every person person has their own experiences, biases and prejudices, all of which influence and color the way that they understand language in general and the Bible specifically.

The Catholic Christian Church interprets the Bible by the guidance of the Oral Tradition that was first given to Moses from God at Mt. Sinai. Starting with Martin Luther, protestants increasingly abandoned the Oral Tradition. But instead of actually practicing SS, protestants just made up their own traditions or returned to pre-Christian pagan traditions and their man-made traditions became their authority instead. The result is that protestantism is divided into a million and one different denominations, all of which preach a different gospel with a different Jesus and a different doctrine and a different plan of salvation.

In some parts of the USA, namely the so-called "Bible Belt," one can find a different protestant establishment on literally every other street corner and each one is quite literally teaching and practicing a different religion and worshiping a different deity. Many of these religions have no similarity at all with each other beyond that they all claim the Bible as their sole authority and that they call their disparate deities by the same name, Jesus.
 
Apr 30, 2013
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#10
Do you not consider the catholic church a pagan religion?
No, Catholic Christianity is completely and utterly anti-pagan. Catholicism is the very antithesis of paganism.

It has all the hallmarks...
Of being an thoroughly anti-pagan religious practice. If you actually do some historical research, you'll find that Catholic Christianity and paganism have a history of extreme hostility toward each other. The conflict between pagans and Catholic Christians is akin to that of Nazis and Jews. I am a life long history buff and I have no knowledge of any two religious practices that have been more at odds with each than Catholic Christianity and pagans.

That you would think that they are in way at all related just points to a thorough and complete lack of knowledge of history, Catholic Christianity and paganism on your part.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#11
I see the point being made in the original post where those who Said Sola Scripture then proceeded to write much that many have come to adhere to.

I just don't believe the catholic church is of Heavenly Father and the Messiah Yahshua.

Why would they teach abominable worship to men?

They twist and manipulate the scriptures to continue with their pagan worship.

I can not offer any denomination but want you to know that i'm not against you or hate you because it is not so.

The Bible records the queen of heaven being worshiped:

Jeremiah 44

Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying, 16As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the LORD, we will not hearken unto thee. 17But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.18But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine. 19And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?
long before Yahshua the Messiah was born to Mary.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
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#12
No, Catholic Christianity is completely and utterly anti-pagan. Catholicism is the very antithesis of paganism.



Of being an thoroughly anti-pagan religious practice. If you actually do some historical research, you'll find that Catholic Christianity and paganism have a history of extreme hostility toward each other. The conflict between pagans and Catholic Christians is akin to that of Nazis and Jews. I am a life long history buff and I have no knowledge of any two religious practices that have been more at odds with each than Catholic Christianity and pagans.

That you would think that they are in way at all related just points to a thorough and complete lack of knowledge of history, Catholic Christianity and paganism on your part.
history will not find the Truth that sets you free my friend your willing heart that seeks will though.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#13
well, God does not dwell in any thing made by mans hands. But in each individual. Everyone has access to God's written word And access to God Himself, and God Judges on an individual basis and can reach His own children Himself with no man , system, in between them .

So no matter what group or church system you belong to. Christ is the Top of the body. And we all believers in Christ, make up the many membered body of Christ. That is the church. Fights and disputes over church systems and traditions of men are a waste of time.

Better keep focused on God's written words . Christ is what matters to every Christian first above all.

Acts 10:34



34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:


Romans 2:11



11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
 
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Apr 30, 2013
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#14
Jeremy, have you read all of the Bible Old and New Testament?
Yeah, I did actually. And that is exactly why I am a Catholic Christian. It is by far the Christian tradition that most closely matches the Bible. By far.

I wasn't born Catholic Christian or anything like that and my parents are anti-Catholic Church of Christ people (they have soften significantly toward the Church since my conversion).

I was brought up protestant but deconverted by the time I was 23 because my protestant practice (It was charismatic/evangelical, not CoC at that time) was comprised of numerous logical contradictions and the claims being made by the people on staff at that establishment didn't match observable external reality at all.

Years later, for entirely nonreligious reasons, I read through a protestant Bible and came to believe in the God of the OT but not the NT because it didn't match the OT. I called a synagogue and went to work studying Judaism with the intent to convert. The Jewish religion was so entirely different and removed than the religion I grew up with that my childhood religion could not possibly have been the religion that Jesus started and intended.

And so I started researching the early Church to find out what happened to the real historical Christianity. What I discovered was that the early Church used the Septuagint, or LXX, instead of the Hebrew TaNaKh, which was the OT that was used in the Protestant canon. And so I began studying the LXX and the NT started making a lot more sense.

There's more to the story than that, that's just some highlights, but the point is it is because of the Bible that I became a Catholic Christian, not in spite of the Bible.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
216
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#15
well, God does not dwell in any thing made by mans hands. But in each individual. Everyone has access to God's written word. and God Judges on an individual basis. So no matter what group or church system you belong to. Christ is the Top of the body. And we all believers in Christ, make up the many membered body of Christ. That is the church. Fights and disputes over church systems and traditions of men are a waste of time.

Better keep focused on God's written words . Christ is what matters to every Christian first above all.
Indeed so we would not willingly partake in something abominable to the Heavenly Father and the Messiah.

Those that do not know it is abominable are to be offered the Truth according to the Word of God.

It is not a personal protest of what one man likes the other to do but what is pleasing and displeasing to the Almighty God.

i agree we should all be One Family in Spirit and Truth and not by which man we adhere to.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
216
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#16
Yeah, I did actually. And that is exactly why I am a Catholic Christian. It is by far the Christian tradition that most closely matches the Bible. By far.

I wasn't born Catholic Christian or anything like that and my parents are anti-Catholic Church of Christ people (they have soften significantly toward the Church since my conversion).

I was brought up protestant but deconverted by the time I was 23 because my protestant practice (It was charismatic/evangelical, not CoC at that time) was comprised of numerous logical contradictions and the claims being made by the people on staff at that establishment didn't match observable external reality at all.

Years later, for entirely nonreligious reasons, I read through a protestant Bible and came to believe in the God of the OT but not the NT because it didn't match the OT. I called a synagogue and went to work studying Judaism with the intent to convert. The Jewish religion was so entirely different and removed than the religion I grew up with that my childhood religion could not possibly have been the religion that Jesus started and intended.

And so I started researching the early Church to find out what happened to the real historical Christianity. What I discovered was that the early Church used the Septuagint, or LXX, instead of the Hebrew TaNaKh, which was the OT that was used in the Protestant canon. And so I began studying the LXX and the NT started making a lot more sense.

There's more to the story than that, that's just some highlights, but the point is it is because of the Bible that I became a Catholic Christian, not in spite of the Bible.
Thank you for clarifying this, then you have learnt of what pleases and displeases Heavenly Father and yet remain certain it is acceptable.

The Messiah never commanded any of us to worship idols or pray the rosary.

That is man.

The Lords prayer is given and it is to Our Father in Heaven.

You have stated your beliefs and i have mine, it is better not to right or wrong the matter.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#17
May it be that One day you learn through the Holy Spirit there is such thing as Sola Scripture.
 
Apr 30, 2013
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#18
Thank you for clarifying this, then you have learnt of what pleases and displeases Heavenly Father and yet remain certain it is acceptable.
Have no idea what you are talking about here. I try to avoid doing anything that is not acceptable or condemned.

The Messiah never commanded any of us to worship idols
And I don't and I have no knowledge of any Catholic Christian that does. Of course, if one did worship idols, they would be excommunicated. Idol Worship is strictly forbidden by Church teachings.

or pray the rosary.
Actually, yes, he did. What do you think the "Lord's Prayer" is?

The Lords prayer is given and it is to Our Father in Heaven.
Okay, so you just made my point for me.

You have stated your beliefs and i have mine, it is better not to right or wrong the matter.
Not sure what you mean by this but there is an objective truth. There is not my truth and then your truth. If your or my 'truth' contradicts the real truth, then we are wrong to the degree that our individual truth differs from the real 'truth.'
 
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nathan3

Guest
#19
Indeed so we would not willingly partake in something abominable to the Heavenly Father and the Messiah.

Those that do not know it is abominable are to be offered the Truth according to the Word of God.

It is not a personal protest of what one man likes the other to do but what is pleasing and displeasing to the Almighty God.

i agree we should all be One Family in Spirit and Truth and not by which man we adhere to.
I never met anyone that knew everything just the correct way as written. That is why it is good to focus on the God's written word Because while you may think this group of believers in Christ is doing it wrong, there are a 100 other groups that say your not Just right yourself. It amounts to blind leading blind, and then a division of Christians .

And what does it help when a house is divided against its self ? will that stand ? Again, the church is within the individual , And God's word's lead. People may not be understanding the Bible just the right way, but that is still no reason to alienate some one because they are not perfect in understanding, no ones perfect. So lets leave judgment to God, learn God's word as Christians, and let God's word do the correcting .And leave us to lift each-other and correct each-other. But not divide each-other .. I just want everyone to use caution :


Proverbs 6:16-19

King James Version (KJV)

16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto Him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies,"" and he that soweth discord among brethren.""
 
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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,550
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#20
No denomination, once it has declared its dogmas, is of the Word except in part. There must be true believers in just about any walk of mankind, however until they are called out of each's off center path, they will continue to wonder why no one group seems to have a grip on what is proper in worship. All who call upon Jesus, Yeshua, in spirit and truth are on the right path, I believe. I believe because Jesus teaches us so.
I never met anyone that knew everything just the correct way as written. That is why it is good to focus on the God's written word Because while you may think this group of believers in Christ is doing it wrong, there are a 100 other groups that say your not Just right yourself. It amounts to blind leading blind, and then a division of Christians .

And what does it help when a house is divided against its self ? will that stand ? Again, the church is within the individual , And God's word's lead. People may not be understanding the Bible just the right way, but that is still no reason to alienate some one because they are not perfect in understanding, no ones perfect. So lets leave judgment to God, learn God's word as Christians, and let God's word do the correcting .And leave us to lift each-other and correct each-other. But not divide each-other .. I just want everyone to use caution :


Proverbs 6:16-19

King James Version (KJV)

16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto Him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies,"" and he that soweth discord among brethren.""