There will be no Rapture!!!
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I know, that Darby came up with it. Lately I got in contact with Brethren and I might join they're gatherings, because they seem to have very surgically precise Bible works. Maybe because they are deeper into it, they found this pre-tribulation rapture to be a possibility. I myself have BIG problems accepting that concept.
Brethren are calm, quiet, decent, and because of they're Bible understanding naturally conservative.
I like orthodox priests - they are wise and deep - but I can't get behind idol worship and the worship of "saints" that initially were greek and roman gods and godesses. It's a pity. The church was usurped in 321.
Dispensationalism I might be able to get behind, because before I ever heard of it, it was "revealed" to me, that God dealt with the world VERY differently before and after the crucifixion. Like radically different laws in the spiritual realm, like "if gravity on Earth would be different" different.
If there are Christians in the tribulation, then it is because they must have converted AFTER the rapture. The church - true believers now ( before the first coming of Christ) will be taken away, the Holy Spirit will disappear (making the Anti-Christ possible), all hell will break loose on Earth - and many will THEN come to the Lord, because of it. That's my understanding of the mechanics and chronological order.
Brethren are calm, quiet, decent, and because of they're Bible understanding naturally conservative.
I like orthodox priests - they are wise and deep - but I can't get behind idol worship and the worship of "saints" that initially were greek and roman gods and godesses. It's a pity. The church was usurped in 321.
Dispensationalism I might be able to get behind, because before I ever heard of it, it was "revealed" to me, that God dealt with the world VERY differently before and after the crucifixion. Like radically different laws in the spiritual realm, like "if gravity on Earth would be different" different.
If there are Christians in the tribulation, then it is because they must have converted AFTER the rapture. The church - true believers now ( before the first coming of Christ) will be taken away, the Holy Spirit will disappear (making the Anti-Christ possible), all hell will break loose on Earth - and many will THEN come to the Lord, because of it. That's my understanding of the mechanics and chronological order.
Yes the brethren try to follow the New Testament pattern of worship and are doctrinally sound, and also what you have said. But there is a common misunderstanding that the pre-tribulation Rapture originated with Christ. It was generally ignore throughout church history until Darby spent some time studying the Bible itself.
The doctrine of the Resurrection/Rapture is clearly revealed in the New Testament, and you will never find any connection to any tribulation period in those passages. It actually originated with Christ.
The doctrine of the Resurrection/Rapture is clearly revealed in the New Testament, and you will never find any connection to any tribulation period in those passages. It actually originated with Christ.
Like when Luther came up with his teachings that the church had been oblivious to as well.
Some act like all there is to know was given all at once, and nothing new is to be presented and learned.
One must mature in knowledge before any concept, let alone the Rapture, can be realized.
That is why we are all going to be individually evaluated by the Lord. We will not be evaluated by our group.
For we are all individually responsible and accountable before God.
And, we have also been told by Jesus. "Few" will find it. Life that the mature believer walks in.
The broad and wide leads to destruction... Most Christians will go with the flow of like minded believers
which is based upon how they naturally feel about a matter.
Look at the Calvinists, who feel God must force men to believe. They feel its the only way one can get saved
because they fail to understand how the depravity of man works.
So? The Rapture. To some its obvious.
grace and peace .........
Some act like all there is to know was given all at once, and nothing new is to be presented and learned.
One must mature in knowledge before any concept, let alone the Rapture, can be realized.
That is why we are all going to be individually evaluated by the Lord. We will not be evaluated by our group.
For we are all individually responsible and accountable before God.
And, we have also been told by Jesus. "Few" will find it. Life that the mature believer walks in.
The broad and wide leads to destruction... Most Christians will go with the flow of like minded believers
which is based upon how they naturally feel about a matter.
Look at the Calvinists, who feel God must force men to believe. They feel its the only way one can get saved
because they fail to understand how the depravity of man works.
So? The Rapture. To some its obvious.
grace and peace .........
Precious friend, about 100 Scriptures are provided here:
God's Great GRACE Departure!
Do you wish me to "copy and paste" Them here?
Grace And Peace...
God's Great GRACE Departure!
Do you wish me to "copy and paste" Them here?
Grace And Peace...
Actually, I do hold to the pre-trib rapture. In that statement of mine that you quoted, I was addressing those who see the pre-trib rapture as allegedly having originated from Darby in the 19th century, itself as being nothing more than a fairy tale. Therefore the reason for my showing historic belief in the pre-trib rapture dating back to a number of the first century "church fathers."
Perhaps I could have worded it differently for clarity, for I didn't foresee it as being so misunderstood. When typing, with my typing time being limited, I tend to tap out my thoughts, even when they are convoluted, so if something doesn't sound quite on par, I don't mind people asking for clarification.
No harm done, though. I don't take anything seriously in these forums since they are merely discussions, interspersed throughout with personal attacks from others who don't understand the fallacies of ad hominem, circular reasoning errors, and a host of other problems arising from their no having studied logical fallacies, formal fallacies, et al.
One such prime example of downright irrationality in reason is when I point out to some the utter absence of any mention of the Church throughout all the chapters of Revelation outlining the events of the tribulation, to which the detractor generally resorts to claiming that the "saints" mentioned throughout ARE the Church. They fail to take into account that the mention of the "saints" all the way to the end of the tribulation will force them into the corner of post-trib, and that's generally where they deteriorate in their reasonings down in the gutters of completely irrational come-backs and table-turning, slight of hand tricks. Steven Anderson, a rather well-known character on the web, is one such renegade who does this very thing while vomiting his pre-wrath nonsense.
He nearly went into convulsions when I point out to him:
Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
His tactical arsenal is generally populated with reactions of exasperation, in that we pre-tribbers allegedly can't see the difference between "mere" wrath and "great wrath," which is one of his inventions as THE dividing line where the rapture allegedly takes place in his eschatology. What he hated even more is my pointing out that more than half the world's population is killed in just the first half. His denials of that only betrayed his being mathematically challenged.
So, thank you for re-reading my posts to see where I stand.
Much appreciated.
MM
Perhaps I could have worded it differently for clarity, for I didn't foresee it as being so misunderstood. When typing, with my typing time being limited, I tend to tap out my thoughts, even when they are convoluted, so if something doesn't sound quite on par, I don't mind people asking for clarification.
No harm done, though. I don't take anything seriously in these forums since they are merely discussions, interspersed throughout with personal attacks from others who don't understand the fallacies of ad hominem, circular reasoning errors, and a host of other problems arising from their no having studied logical fallacies, formal fallacies, et al.
One such prime example of downright irrationality in reason is when I point out to some the utter absence of any mention of the Church throughout all the chapters of Revelation outlining the events of the tribulation, to which the detractor generally resorts to claiming that the "saints" mentioned throughout ARE the Church. They fail to take into account that the mention of the "saints" all the way to the end of the tribulation will force them into the corner of post-trib, and that's generally where they deteriorate in their reasonings down in the gutters of completely irrational come-backs and table-turning, slight of hand tricks. Steven Anderson, a rather well-known character on the web, is one such renegade who does this very thing while vomiting his pre-wrath nonsense.
He nearly went into convulsions when I point out to him:
Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
His tactical arsenal is generally populated with reactions of exasperation, in that we pre-tribbers allegedly can't see the difference between "mere" wrath and "great wrath," which is one of his inventions as THE dividing line where the rapture allegedly takes place in his eschatology. What he hated even more is my pointing out that more than half the world's population is killed in just the first half. His denials of that only betrayed his being mathematically challenged.
So, thank you for re-reading my posts to see where I stand.
Much appreciated.
MM
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Precious friend, have you prayerfully and carefully considered The Following Biblical
Evidence?:
God's Great GRACE Departure!
Amen.
Evidence?:
God's Great GRACE Departure!
Amen.
Nils, I understand what you're going through. I too was once there in doubts about the pre-trib rapture, but have long since came back around to that understanding on the basis of some reasonably solid grounding. If you would like to discuss this, then we can move this to private messaging so that there will be no disturbances and haranguing from troublemakers. If there are others you would like to invite into the private thread, then that's fine too...if this site software will allow that. I haven't looked into that yet.
Everything I say, you can go and check out for yourself, and I invite and encourage that because I'm not looking for followers. I benefit not at all from others to come to deeper truths and understanding of God's word.
Blessings to you and yours.
MM
Everything I say, you can go and check out for yourself, and I invite and encourage that because I'm not looking for followers. I benefit not at all from others to come to deeper truths and understanding of God's word.
Blessings to you and yours.
MM
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