There's more than this...

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kayem77

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I go to church every sunday and I don't drink alcohol. I help my friends sometimes . Yes, I'm aware people in my church and neighborhood need help, but I'm not responsible for them, right? My church is theologically sound, thank God they're not like those other churches where they don't read the Bible ! Hey everyone has their own faults, God doesn't expect me to be perfect! <------- sounds familiar?

We think we are good enough, or at least, better than others...and that's how we define that we are doing just fine. We like our doctrines, we like being right...preaching the right way, worshipping the right way. And this is good....sound doctrine is very important. But knowledge above love? We despise everything else that doesn't conform to our understanding and our ways. ''Yes, they are nice people, but have you seen the way they teach the Bible? they got it all wrong!''.

It seems that the first thing unbelievers see is the way the saints love. Not the way the saints learn or teach. Have you met the Mormons? they are generally very nice people, reason why they get people in their churches.Maybe we can learn from them ....their hospitality, NOT their theology. And we are supposed to know better about love.

Am I wrong to think we can do more? I'm tired of doing just what you are supposed to but not more than that. I'm tired of seeing people being proud because their church teaches the Bible, but ignore the homeless and the needy in their own backyards. We need to go back to the start and practice that thing that Jesus called LOVE.
 
Kayem, If you Live in Sandy Eggo, the Rock has (had?) an excellent homeless ministry. Whether you like the church or not, the programs are phenominal and its a great way to get plugged in. =)
 
I was there only once, so I really can't say if I like the church. I liked the atmosphere though :) I moved from SD but I was actually thinking about gettin involved in a church there because I go there quite often. And the Rock sounds interesting.

I was talking not only about the homeless though, I found that there's an attitude of comfortable Christianity that I dislike.
 
If we look at ourselves and wish to understand deeper what Love is, it can also be the aspects that were lacking which prevent us from truly experiencing Gods love in a way so that we can also exhibit it like he wants us to.
A lot of people want to be loved FIRST before they can love in return or be taught love before they know what it is.
Ya ever heard of a sheltered child?
The world, satan, shelters us from Gods love as we are first born to satan as our worldly father in sin until we are born again to our new Father God.
In a lot of ways were like sheltered children until then, in the fact that we havent known or allowed our new father were born again into to parent us until now.
Were suppose to forsake our old father in every way when we die to our old selves (not our dad at home the human person but the devil)
Proverbs 4:23 says
Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life.

Some may take this as a biblical excuse or justification to put up emotional walls to protect them from being hurt
Thinking well God said to protect my heart so there :P
This would only shleter one further though from experiencing real love.
To me this means more than what is on the surface

Should we read this as guard the heart from satan or guard our heart from God?
Guard it from bitterness or guard it from becoming bitter which would harden it
Guard it from spite or guard it from becoming spiteful
Guard it from resentment or guard it from becoming resentful
Guard it from anger or guard it from Acting out in anger
All of these things on the left can lead to hardening of the heart or the the things on the right in blue prevent hardening against God.
Would God really want for us to Guard our heart so much so as not to feel what he really means and in that Fell him inside us as well
If we guard our hearts from these things it can allow us to actually Know what Gods love is so that our heart CAN
be that wellspring of life, lifegiving water which Jesus told us we would never thirst again because of it.

Are we wrapping our heart up to protect it from being hurt
Or guarding it from being wrapped up so that Gods love and glory is always being shown through it.
If it is true that the bible says love endures all things, and Gods love is perfect
I believe were suppose to guard it from anything which can harden it, and only then can it be the wellspring of life God wishes to use.
:)
 
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kayem77 said:
I was there only once, so I really can't say if I like the church. I liked the atmosphere though :) I moved from SD but I was actually thinking about gettin involved in a church there because I go there quite often. And the Rock sounds interesting.

I was talking not only about the homeless though, I found that there's an attitude of comfortable Christianity that I dislike.
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Thank you. I often wonder if anyone else noticed this as well.
 
Oh I've noticed. It's something I've ranted on about for ages now. It really grinds my gears, but it seems to me, that people don't like talking about it(Perhaps it's a convicting matter for them, and they don't want to face it), but either way you are NOT ALONE.. I have definitely noticed this attitude too.
 
The spiritual gifts, kayM are many, the called have many choices.

Some , not many, are called to be pastors, and, others, prophesyers, and, a handful, teachers, and, still others, apostles, and, a lot, evangelists.

These 'callings' are by God and you can pray to Him for answers on your gifts, and, churches have tests too, and, online probably has a 'spiritual gifts' test too (good ole, kayM, the Lord uses her for me to look into this now :) )

What are your spiritual gifts from Him, Paul lists some in 1 Cor. 12 .

But then right after that chap. 12 list is a 1 Cor. 13 list of those chap.12 things said all over again. , what does God say through Paul? Why is this list repeated?

says that we can pastor, prophesy, teach, apostle, evangelize ALL WE WANT, BUT IF WE DO NOT DO IT IN LOVE IT IS JUST A 'clanging cymbal' sound.

You are LOUD, OBNOXIOUS, AND, YOUR intentions are RIGHT, GOD GIVES YOU THAT, BUT YOUR heart is not using your gifts out of love so your work is effectively ineffective, it does no good. :(

Whatever you do, do it so God gets the glory, and, doing 'it,' therefore MUST be done in Love. 'Agape' love, which is the same Love Christ showed us by His sacrifice of His sinless self for we sinning wretched beasts called humans, yes, show 'that' kind of Love :)
 
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I agree. It also seems like some churches sort of waste their "feel good credits" on unbiblical things, like giving everyone at a gas station free gasoline for two hours. The Bible says, for example, 'Honor widows that are widows indeed." And this seems more like indiscriminate fire to me. It does get you on the local news, and therefore publicity, but it has never blessed me.
 
Right On Kayem77!

One of my greatest complaints is how we (generalization occurring!) completely ignore the needs of others. It is hard to sit in a church when you realize that the widow of the last pastor of the church is on public assistance. That there is nothing done for the widow or the orphan in the church. That the general idea is for those in need to "suck it up" and get out of the elders' faces. Not in my Bible, but then I am not sure the Bible is not actually read much in those churches.

I have some auto repair skills. I have tried often to get a church I attend to sponsor an oil change, general repair for those whom are financially challenged in the church/community. Nope, not going to happen. Might spill oil on the dirt parking lot, insurance concerns, "we tried doing something nice once before", "who will pay for this?",etc. Lots of excuses not to help those in need. It is amazing to me, to see just how hard some hearts are, and then question how did they ever get into the ministry.....
 
I dunno. I have kind of a weirder outlook on this...I think there is a difference between having the love of god, and the love of the world. I mean, even atheists love their parents, brothers, grandmothers...But, I really beleive that god has to work with you, and change you, for you to be who you should be. Everyone is at a different place in their walk with god, so you get the people that really into scripture, and context of scripture, trying to have the holy ghost lead them to be able to help others, and you have people, who already know their doctrine, and are ready to practice it in their everyday life... I mean... I dont think anyone goes after a debate just to be RIGHT. It has to stem from somewhere, and I personally think it comes from a need to love, and a genuine WANT to help. Regardless of how it seems to you, or anyone else. So we really need to try to see peoples heart and their true intentions. And I really think that is the road to true love. And I think it is only attainable through Jesus Christ. As far as helping homless people on the street, there are many many churches that help them. And just because they may not help them, I dont think that makes them any less christian. Maybe they dont have the funds, or maybe their putting their funds, and time into something different? Ya know, that doesnt mean they dont pick up lunch for someone in their spare time?
 
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There are times when it seems like there is a "well, I've got mine, that's all I care about" attitude. But you are right, Karla, we have a much higher calling. Bless you.

If we love as He loves, if we share His heart, it should spur us to get up and DO something about it rather than watching people, one by one, wander down the highway to hell when we know the love that could save them.
 
chip said:
Right On Kayem77!

One of my greatest complaints is how we (generalization occurring!) completely ignore the needs of others. It is hard to sit in a church when you realize that the widow of the last pastor of the church is on public assistance. That there is nothing done for the widow or the orphan in the church. That the general idea is for those in need to "suck it up" and get out of the elders' faces. Not in my Bible, but then I am not sure the Bible is not actually read much in those churches.

I have some auto repair skills. I have tried often to get a church I attend to sponsor an oil change, general repair for those whom are financially challenged in the church/community. Nope, not going to happen. Might spill oil on the dirt parking lot, insurance concerns, "we tried doing something nice once before", "who will pay for this?",etc. Lots of excuses not to help those in need. It is amazing to me, to see just how hard some hearts are, and then question how did they ever get into the ministry.....
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The sad thing is, they do have to think of such things as insurance concerns. Someone might get in an accident and sue the church, just because you were the last person to touch their car. I'm not saying we should be afraid to do good, of course, but the speed with which people decide to sue these days is alarming.
 
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More than helping the homeless and having Church fundraisers, I'm talking more about the personal responsibility we have. My church has fundraisers and they help the homeless sometimes. I'm not bashing my church, it's more like a general attitude that I've seen . We help people who are complete strangers, that way we don't have to commit ourselves to the person. Sometimes we don't even do that.

Some of you know that I go to church by myself, my dad is a new Christian and my mom is not Christian. When my dad goes to church we go to a different church because my church doesn't have a big Spanish ministry. Anyway, they just met a Christian couple from a different church. I have my doubts about this church, but my parents , being newbies, don't really know much about doctrines and all that. But these people are REALLY nice, and that's what they see. These people call my parents to see how they're doing, they invite them to church events, they ask my dad about his job and they even offered to take him to different companies where they can reccomend him (because he is looking for a new job). They actually help...they don't just pray.

I talked about this church with a person from my church. He said that we should be careful and that being nice is not all that matters. And I agree...but it also made me laugh in the inside. It's funny when people say ''don't go to that church! they are nice but they don't teach like us.... wait, what? you need help? hmm....yeah I'll keep you in prayers''.:rolleyes: How can we boast about being better when we forget the basics?

I hope I don't sound like I'm only complaining and whining. :) I know I'm not perfect and I can always find ways to be an example to others.
My point is... please, be that example whenever is possible! :)
 
JimJimmers said:
I agree. It also seems like some churches sort of waste their "feel good credits" on unbiblical things, like giving everyone at a gas station free gasoline for two hours. The Bible says, for example, 'Honor widows that are widows indeed." And this seems more like indiscriminate fire to me. It does get you on the local news, and therefore publicity, but it has never blessed me.
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Free gas !!? are those churches in California? :)

I see churches in every corner of the city. I wonder if there would be a change in this place if they all helped each other and their neighbors. Maybe we would be more credible.
 
kayem77 said:
Free gas !!? are those churches in California? :)

I see churches in every corner of the city. I wonder if there would be a change in this place if they all helped each other and their neighbors. Maybe we would be more credible.
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I don't think churches here can afford to do the free gas thing. It would be like handing each person a $50 or $100 bill.
 
kayem77 said:
Free gas !!? are those churches in California? :)

I see churches in every corner of the city. I wonder if there would be a change in this place if they all helped each other and their neighbors. Maybe we would be more credible.
Click to expand...

lol, the one I heard of was in Chesterfield, VA. It created a huge backed-up line of people sitting there with their cars idling :D I just felt it wasn't helping the right people, it was sort of "indiscriminate fire", as they call it. But I agree with you, "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." Amen!
 
I think many of us are not happy with the fact that many of our churches are not involved in ministry where the rubber meets the road; helping the homeless, the shut-ins, single parents, etc. Obviously these types of ministry take two things, time and money; and most of our churches are lacking the money and the volunteers to man these types of ministries.

The Barna Group is a christian based polling organization that tracks trends withing the church. A study they released in May of 2011 shows that only about 4% of christians give a full 10% (tithe) of their income to ministries, and that 24% give nothing at all. Yes the economy has affected people's giving habits, but prior to the economic crash only 7% were giving a full tithe and about the same percentage were giving nothing at all, so it didn't affect giving in the church that much. Another Barna study also in 2011 shows that volunteerism in the church has dropped an average (based on regions) of 10% in the past 20 years.

So, our churches are under financed because most church attenders think it's someone else's job to give because they don't want to give up their (misconception) hard earned money for ministry. Our ministries are understaffed because people don't want to give up their (same misconception) time to do God's work. Our churches have become filled with people infected with the disease of greed and selfishness that only a large dose of love will cure.




 
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