THIS GENERATION

[Ahwatukee]

You serpents you brood of vipers, how will you escape being sentenced to Hell. Therefore I send you Prophets and wise men and Scribes, some of which you will kill and crucify and some you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from town to town that upon you will come all the righteous blood shed on earth from the blood of innocent Abel to to the blood of Zechariah the Son of Barachiah whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly I say to you all this will come upon this generation. Oh Jerusalem Jerusalem killing the Prophets and stoning those who are sent to you. How often would I have gathered your children together as a Hen gathers her brood under her wings and you would not Behold your house is forsaken and desolate For I tell you you will not see me again until you say Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. Jesus left the Temple and was going away when his disciples came to point out the buildings of the Temple But he answered them You see all these things do you not? Truly I say to you there will be not be left one stone standing on another that will not be thrown down. As he sat on the Mount of Olives the disciples came to him privately saying tell us when this will be and what is the sign of your coming and the end of the age. Take heed that no one leads you astray for many will come in my name saying I am the Christ and they will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumours of wars but see that you are not alarmed for this must take place but the end is not yet. For nation shall be against nation and kingdom against kingdom and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places
all this is but the beginning of the birth pangs. Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death and you will be hated by all nations for my names sake. And then many will fall away and betray and lad many astray And because wickedness is multiplied most mens love will grow cold. But he who endures to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations and then the end will come

Matthew 23:33 - 24:14

The last days started in the generation that was alive at the time of Christ and is still continuing. At the time that he
gave these answers Jesus did not know when the end was to occur but he did know that the last days would begin with that generation and continue until the whole world had heard the gospel of the kingdom. He also knew and warned the
religious leaders and his disciples what would happen within their lifetimes. He warned that the conditions between that time and his second coming would get progressively worse. Today those conditions are reaching an intensity that strongly indicates that his coming could be soon. There are two false interpretations about these chapters. The first is the Preterist view that everything happened in 70AD and the other is the futurist view that nothing much happened until Israel became a nation again in 1948 both dates are important and the events surrounding them shouldn't be ignored.

My contention remains the same i.e. "this generation" must refer back to the generation where those signs begin to appear, which lead right up to the end of the age, which is not the end of Israel's age, as some have attempted to proclaim, but the end of the age of mankind's rule over this earth.

All that is mentioned in Matt.24, as well as the events of wrath in Revelation, must all take place leading up to the Lord's return to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom, which is what both Matt.24:30-31 and Rev.19:11-21 are depicting.

Therefore, you cannot have Jesus already returning to end the age in 70 AD because every eye should have seen him and all of the events of wrath and the events of the beasts reign must all take place before the Lord can return to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.

And by the way, the word "generation" should be interpreted based on the context. Therefore, just because he refers to that generation as a generation of vipers, does not mean that "this generation" in the other scripture is referring to that generation as well. The context points to the generation where all of the signs are present with Christ returning at the end of them.

 

[tanakh]

This is a follow on from my Post number 40.

I have said many times that to understand Revelation we need to have some knowledge of OT prophecy. In the OT there are a number of types that represent the last days. The story of the Exodus is one of the most important of those types. Its not a coincidence that many of the plagues in Revelation are the same or similar to those in the Exodus story. Another of the notable features in both books are references to the Lamb.

In the Exodus story Egypt represents the world. The Israelite's are in slavery to Pharaoh just as humanity is in spiritual slavery to the Antichrist who rules the world system in Revelation. In the story God sends the Plagues on to the Egyptians just as he sends the Judgments on humanity in Revelation. The last of the plagues is the death of the first born. The Israelites are told that each family should kill a Lamb and smear its blood of the door posts of their houses so that the Angel of death would pass over them. The Lamb represents Jesus who shed his blood for our salvation. In Revelation he is called the Lamb in a number of places. In the Exodus story the Israelites were not told to do anything else for their salvation apart from smearing the blood on their doors. Our salvation comes only from the belief in the shed blood of Christ.

Gods judgemment on Egypt didn't stop at the death of the first born. Through Moses the Red Sea waters were parted
and the Israelites walked across. Pharaoh and his army were drowned. In Revelation the Antichrist and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire. This part of the story represents the end of the tribulation. The rapture takes place then just as Israels final deliverence from Egypt happens at the Red Sea.

 

[tanakh]

My contention remains the same i.e. "this generation" must refer back to the generation where those signs begin to appear, which lead right up to the end of the age, which is not the end of Israel's age, as some have attempted to proclaim, but the end of the age of mankind's rule over this earth.

The idea that Jesus was speaking about the present generation is

All that is mentioned in Matt.24, as well as the events of wrath in Revelation, must all take place leading up to the Lord's return to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom, which is what both Matt.24:30-31 and Rev.19:11-21 are depicting.

Therefore, you cannot have Jesus already returning to end the age in 70 AD because every eye should have seen him and all of the events of wrath and the events of the beasts reign must all take place before the Lord can return to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.

And by the way, the word "generation" should be interpreted based on the context. Therefore, just because he refers to that generation as a generation of vipers, does not mean that "this generation" in the other scripture is referring to that generation as well. The context points to the generation where all of the signs are present with Christ returning at the end of them.

If you read my post carefully you would have realized what I was saying. The last days started with the generation Jesus was talking to. The generation in Matt 24 is in perfect context with what Jesus said in Matt 23 to the religious leaders.
Do you think they and the disciples took a relaxed attitude and placed it all in the distant future. Just reading the NT shows that they knew that the events Jesus spoke of could happen in their lifetime and some of them did They didn't have the luxury of hindsight that we have The Jewish war alone killed over one million Jews and destroyed the OT sacrificial system.
That alone was more than a minor footnote in Jewish history and happened within the lifetime of those who heard Jesus in Matt 23/24. His warning about them fleeing from Jerusalem was remembered by the Christians there and during a brief withdrawal of Roman forces during the siege they fled the City. The term Abomination of Desolation was used to describe anything that desecrated the Temple and the City. In Luke the Abomination is described as the Armies surrounding Jerusalem not something standing in the Holy place.

Some of the signs have been present throughout the age Wars, Earthquakes, Famines and Persecutions that Jesus calls birth pains they are recorded both in the NT and secular history. They have grown in intensity. He also said that the Gospel was to be preached throughout the world before the end came. What I am saying is that it is more correct to say we are nearing the end of the last days rather than just starting them. I didn't suggest that everything happened in 70AD in fact I said that the Preterist view was wrong. If you take a broader sweep of prophetic events you will realize that the Bible as a whole leads up to the second coming because historic details are also types of what you find in Revelation besides the warnings of the Prophets.

 

[Ahwatukee]

If you read my post carefully you would have realized what I was saying. The last days started with the generation Jesus was talking to. The generation in Matt 24 is in perfect context with what Jesus said in Matt 23 to the religious leaders.

Hello Tanakh,

Yes, I got that. But the reference to "this generation" can only refer to that last generation where those signs take place. I have seen a generation represented by 40, 70 and a 100 years in scripture. Therefore, "this generation" would have to refer to the generation that experiences those signs which will exist right before the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. To be clear, a generation cannot represent the last 2000 years, but must be no more than a 100.

Daniel 9:27 establishes that seven year period in fulfillment of the seventy 'sevens' that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem. In Matt.24:15 Jesus quotes Dan.9:27 regarding the abomination being set up which marks the middle of the seven years leading up to Christ's return. From that time there will only be 3 1/2 years left until the Lord's return to end the age.

 

[Bladerunner]

yep I think there is a duality of application there in that section of scripture, parts referring to the coming destruction of Jerusalem, and the temple destruction years later under Rome, and also he specifically references the return and gathering of the elect.

Neither one of you are reading that verse about the AoD correctly. Jesus tells them to look to Daniel in his interpretation of AoD... The Antichrist will be standing in the Holy of Hollies and that did not happen in 70AD no matter how you try to twist it around......

 

[samuel23]

About the abomination of desolation. If this was an event that had to be an exact replica of the original abomination of desolation, the one that occurred around 200 years before Jesus time, then WHY is it not described in Revelation? The closet thing we have is an image made to the Beast and the world being required to worship it. Luke 21 makes it plain that the abomination of desolation described by Matt 21 and Mark 13 was when the Romans destroyed the temple. A prophecy does not have to be an exact duplicate in order to be fulfilled, with that argument being presented(the AofB has to be exactly like the original AofB) then John the Baptist could not be Elijah because John was not actually Elijah. So, Revelation tells it all, where does the Antichrist go into a Jewish Temple in the book of Revelation?

 

[Willie-T]

Neither one of you are reading that verse about the AoD correctly. Jesus tells them to look to Daniel in his interpretation of AoD... The Antichrist will be standing in the Holy of Hollies and that did not happen in 70AD no matter how you try to twist it around......

Are you kidding!? The most despicable, detestable and destructive thing in the world to a Jew was the Roman Empire and its vicious army. And Rome marched right into their temple and killed all the priests and utterly destroyed their entire religious system, burning their temple to the ground. And you say nothing really happened in 70AD? Wow!

 

[samuel23]

About Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 we need to have a reality check on this one and here it is. The disciples asked Jesus first, when would the destruction of the temple and the nation take place, and Jesus described it perfectly. He then concluded later on by saying that it would happen before that generation had passed...AND IT DID! We can read it in history, the words of Jesus came true exactly. There is something else though, the disciples also asked when Jesus would return and when would be the end of the age...THAT HAS NO HAPPENED! The only possible explanation is that when Jesus said that all these things will happen in this generation, that he was only speaking of all those things that happened in that generation, and not of His return and the end of the age.

 

[garee]

My contention remains the same i.e. "this generation" must refer back to the generation where those signs begin to appear, which lead right up to the end of the age, which is not the end of Israel's age, as some have attempted to proclaim, but the end of the age of mankind's rule over this earth.

Which Israel seeing all Israel are not born again Isreal like the outward Jews? The ones that have been renamed as a result of the first century reformation, by the Holy Spirit, as His bride that He calls Christian.

 

[garee]

About Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 we need to have a reality check on this one and here it is. The disciples asked Jesus first, when would the destruction of the temple and the nation take place, and Jesus described it perfectly. He then concluded later on by saying that it would happen before that generation had passed...AND IT DID! We can read it in history, the words of Jesus came true exactly. There is something else though, the disciples also asked when Jesus would return and when would be the end of the age...THAT HAS NO HAPPENED! The only possible explanation is that when Jesus said that all these things will happen in this generation, that he was only speaking of all those things that happened in that generation, and not of His return and the end of the age.

The temple was destroyed when Christ said… "it is finished". The veil was rent indicating that the previous temple used as a shadow of Christ was destroyed when the fulfillment of it had come.(the time of reformation)Today as lively stones built up as the spiritual house of our living God, the church His bride, we are the temple .

This generation, the generation of Christ ( the one spiritual seed) shown by the genealogy in Mathew 1 and not the generation of Adam( the Luke geneaology) in respect to the corrupted flesh which Christ said of His own ...could not profit as if it was a spirit, not seen (the faith principle called the law of faith (Chrsit's)

We are informed there will be a mixture of believers, the generation of Christ having the faith of Chrsit and the generation of Adam, as those who have no faith right up until the last day.

Christ said in that parable (Mathew 24) then the end will come. Not the beginning of a literal thousand year reign on earth as if God who remains (supernatural )without a beginning of days, without father and mother was a man as us. Over two thousand literal years have passed since the beginning of the last days, indicated by the renting of the veil

Mat 1:1 The book of the “generation of Jesus Christ” the son of David, the son of Abraham.

The last days or last times began when He said it is finished


The Jews (outward of the flesh) that have not the Spirit of Christ are still waiting for their savior to say “it is finished” are still using a portion of a stone wall as a idol.

2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

[valiant]

Neither one of you are reading that verse about the AoD correctly. Jesus tells them to look to Daniel in his interpretation of AoD... The Antichrist will be standing in the Holy of Hollies and that did not happen in 70AD no matter how you try to twist it around......

Josephus disagreed with you

 

[Bladerunner]

Are you kidding!? The most despicable, detestable and destructive thing in the world to a Jew was the Roman Empire and its vicious army. And Rome marched right into their temple and killed all the priests and utterly destroyed their entire religious system, burning their temple to the ground. And you say nothing really happened in 70AD? Wow!

Hello Willie-T.... Good to see you are still kicking. lol

Yes and No to Your question. Yes, the Roman Army destroyed the Jewish (over 1 mil) people, their temple and their city in 70 AD......In fact it is told by some historians that the Jewish Priest themselves started the fire in the temple that burned so Hot that it melted the gold from the walls sending it to into the floors below. Thus the fulfillment of another Prophecy (still batting 100%) Mat 24:2

NO, the AoD Daniel 9:27 spoke of did not take place during that siege of Jerusalem of 70AD. This prophecy is still future.

Yes, He (TItus) made it (Jerusalem) Desolate to be sure. but NO, He did not stand in the Temple Holiest place and declared that HE was GOD? This would have been bad Karma since; 1. He was already a prince. 2. only the Ceasar (emperor) could be God. 3. Declaring this, Might have Gotten him killed real quick. ??????????

*******

Rem., Daniel's beast(s)..All of them he could name or give us a symbol as to their strength, speed, etc.. As for the fourth Beast, He had no symbol that described the Roman Army in Daniel 7:7..".......behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns........." Even in Daniels day, he could see in his dream, the TEN HORNS, that John wrote about in the Book of Revelation some 4-500 years later states.

This Roman Army proved this prophecy throughout their reign in that they would grind and remove from the earth if possible both humans and property. YES,,,and this was so in the Siege of Jerusalem 70 AD by Roman General Titus. It is interesting that Titus a short time later (79 AD) became Emperor of Rome for "a short period" of time (81 AD). Daniel even tells us that from the the "People of the Prince" that would destroy the city and temple in 70 AD, an antichrist would arise. While this has not happened yet (Rapture has to happen first), be assured it Will.

Hope you have a great and blessed day. Willie-T