Thoughts on Evolution and its compatibility/incompatibility with Christianity?

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Nov 26, 2021
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India
#1
If there is one error that more than any other has led to multitudes abandoning Christianity first in the West, and in much of the world after that, arguably it is the false theory of evolution.

It may be interesting to note that in Communist gulags and Concentration Camps where they persecuted and tortured Christians, they did not teach false Marxist economics; rather, they promoted Darwin's Theory of Evolution.

Source: http://archives.sspx.org/against_sound_bites/devolution_of_evolution.htm

"In 1947, Bishop O’Gara was imprisoned by the Chinese Communists and wrote from his prison cell regarding the Marxist indoctrination of his flock. A number of them were “hopeless” to the new regime and were executed. Those considered “salvageable” had to attend a week-long class as the new “People’s Republic” was born. His letter described the retraining classes. He does not refer to Marxist philosophy, redistribution of wealth, or even basic socialist principles, but rather Darwinian evolution. This was what was considered the first vital step towards a cooperative communist populace. Eliminate God the Creator, eliminate original sin, replace God with the State.

The Communists utilized Darwin’s observations of natural selection1 (which are valid observations) to advance a concept that all life, humans included, is pure chance resulting from environmental pressures existing for untold millions of years slowly molding them into their current status. The beginnings of life resulted from chance occurrences with random molecules. From a primordial ooze came the first living cell which became a two-celled organism and, billions of years later, became a human being, an organism of 100 trillion cells. The Chinese relied upon Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution to undermine the religious foundation of millions of faithful. Those too strong to crack were eliminated.2"

The below was written in an American Creation Science Text Book in 1928 by Rev. Williams in New Jersey. It also presciently exposed the "Piltdown Man" Evolutionist Hoax decades before evolutionists admitted it: http://ldolphin.org/wmwilliams.html

Thoughts?

"So baneful has been the effect of teaching evolution as a proven hypothesis, that multitudes have been led into infidelity [apostasy] and atheism. Prof. James H. Leuba, of Bryn Mawr College, Pa. sent a questionnaire to 1000 of the most prominent scientists teaching sciences relating to evolution. The replies indicate that more than one-half do not believe in a personal God, nor the immortality of the soul--beliefs almost universal even in the heathen world. So pernicious is this doctrine of evolution that more than one-half of the professors who teach it and kindred subjects, are infidels and atheists and farther from God than the ignorant heathen. And while we are happy in the conviction that the great majority of professors and teachers of other subjects are Christians [i.e. were Christians, in 1928], yet one or two atheists or infidels are sufficient to make havoc of the faith of many, in a great college or university.

A doctrine so abhorrent to the conscience, so contrary to the well nigh universal belief, and so fruitful of evil, certainly can not be true. Small wonder is it that students are fast becoming infidels and atheists, and we shudder as we think of the coming generation. A great responsibility rests upon the authorities who employ such teachers.

The answers of the students in seven large representative colleges and universities to Prof. Leuba's questionnaire, show that while only 15% of the Freshmen have abandoned the Christian religion, 30% of the Juniors and over 40% of the Seniors have abandoned the Christian faith. Note the steady and rapid growth of infidelity and atheism as a result of this pernicious theory.

Will Christian parents patronize or support or endow institutions that give an education that is worse than worthless? What the colleges teach today the world will believe tomorrow.

Atheism, under its own name, has never had many to embrace it. Its only hope is to be tolerated and believed under some other name. In Russia, no man is allowed to belong to the ruling (Communist) party unless he is an atheist. It will be a sorry world when "scientific" atheism wins, under the name of evolution.

No one has a moral right to believe what is false, much less to teach it, under the specious plea of freedom of thought.

It is the privilege and duty of parents to send their children to institutions that are safe.

Nathan Leopold, Jr., and Richard Loeb kidnapped and cruelly murdered Robert Franks. Both were brilliant scholars and atheists. Both graduates of universities though minors, and both were taking a post-graduate course in the University of Chicago. It is asserted and widely believed that they were encouraged in their atheistic belief by the teaching of evolution and modernism, and were thus prepared to commit a crime that shocked the world.

Most of the writers who advocated evolution became atheists or infidels; most of the professors who teach it, believe neither in God nor the immortality of the soul; and the number of students discarding Christianity rose from 15% in the Freshman year to 40% in the Senior. What more proof is needed?"
 

Jesusfollower

Active member
Oct 21, 2021
352
195
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jamaica
#2
Evolution is simply impossible, order cannot come from chaos. The laws of thermodynamics prove this. Evolution if completely contradictory to the creation and is incompatible with Christianity. Evolution is simply a lie. Unfortunately in this age, we are constantly bombarded with lies, we need to be diligent at all times in all matters.

Many blessings be upon you, thank you for the interesting and informative post.

JF
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
8,189
3,400
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#3
Parents and preachers have failed at educating their children and congregations for generations. The religion of Evolutionism is a more commonly held belief system than Biblical Christianity in my area. It may be true for most of the Americas and the world.
.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
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#5
Hello Xavier and others.
First I’d like to say that the explanation of that reverent is not good when seen by the eyes of an atheist because he’s simply saying that he doesn’t like evolution.

Now, we as Christians need to be more reasonable when discussing with an atheist regarding evolution.
For example when I see that the universe is 14 billion years old, I don’t say “The universe is created in 6 days”

But as @Moses_Young pointed in another topic here about Time, https://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/the-creation.207967/page-3#post-4941866
what we may perceive as 14 billion years old may be an illusion. Now why would God put an illusion in our faces? Maybe to test us.
‘And where is the proof in this? In miracles! The atheists love proof too.
‘For example in the miracle of Fatima, almost 20,000 people saw the sun move or wiggle in space or “falling” towards them.
This rationally means that the sun didn’t move in space in this manner for the whole world because everyone would have seen it.
So this means that our Creator did reveal something to these people. This means that reality is not real. This proves a creator.

And this is typically how you want to talk to an atheist when they discuss the theory of evolution.
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
9,150
4,950
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#6
But as @Moses_Young pointed in another topic here about Time, https://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/the-creation.207967/page-3#post-4941866
what we may perceive as 14 billion years old may be an illusion. Now why would God put an illusion in our faces? Maybe to test us.
‘And where is the proof in this? In miracles! The atheists love proof too.
‘For example in the miracle of Fatima, almost 20,000 people saw the sun move or wiggle in space or “falling” towards them.
This rationally means that the sun didn’t move in space in this manner for the whole world because everyone would have seen it.
So this means that our Creator did reveal something to these people. This means that reality is not real.
I think you might have misunderstood my position a little. I don't think God uses illusions, unless He specifically says so. For example, God didn't create a 6,000 year old Earth to look like it was millions of years old. Those of us who believe it is millions of years old are just not looking carefully enough, or using the light of scripture.

Sure, Adam might have looked 30 or so when God created him. But God told us He had created a man, not a baby. If we thought Adam looked 30 years old when he was actually 0, it would be because we were not properly using the light of scripture to examine the subject.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
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#7
I think you might have misunderstood my position a little. I don't think God uses illusions, unless He specifically says so. For example, God didn't create a 6,000 year old Earth to look like it was millions of years old. Those of us who believe it is millions of years old are just not looking carefully enough, or using the light of scripture.

Sure, Adam might have looked 30 or so when God created him. But God told us He had created a man, not a baby. If we thought Adam looked 30 years old when he was actually 0, it would be because we were not properly using the light of scripture to examine the subject.
Okay so if it’s not an illusion how do you reconcile what we‘re able to see, hear and measure with what’s in the Bible?
My reconciliation is this: The Bible is not an engineering book, it’s a relationship book to our Creator and Jesus Christ our savior.
A lot of things are a mystery to me in the Bible but I trust God 100% and I would give my life for Him.
 
Jan 14, 2021
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#9
I've brought this up in other threads before:

1) Christianity is compatible with evolution.

2) Christianity just isn't compatible with atheistic metaphysical naturalism

3) Evolution and atheistic metaphysical naturalism are not the same thing

4) True science is an observation of physical relationships. True science never says "these things occur and God had nothing to do with it". Claiming "God had nothing to do with it" is not science.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
3,282
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#10
I've brought this up in other threads before:

1) Christianity is compatible with evolution.

2) Christianity just isn't compatible with atheistic metaphysical naturalism

3) Evolution and atheistic metaphysical naturalism are not the same thing

4) True science is an observation of physical relationships. True science never says "these things occur and God had nothing to do with it". Claiming "God had nothing to do with it" is not science.
Yes! Thank you!
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,052
1,032
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New Zealand
#11
The starting point of evolution is the big main problem. It's got nothing creating matter.

So then we go to theistic evolution to be more reasonable.

Problem with this, is that it's a very different take on natural history to the Bible. Especially macro evolution,which has species changing to a different species.. that is contrary to the Bible in having fixed 'kinds' of species with variation in their lines.. but not changing across species.

Evolution also is put hand in hand with the rate of growth and decay being always the same. This doesn't mesh with the Bible having catastrophic changes.

So it isn't compatible. But it isn't a salvation issue.

There are many many many believers on the theistic Evolution way of thinking.

I'm a young earther myself. If I take the Bible as it is.. that seems the best conclusion.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,735
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#12
This is very well
If there is one error that more than any other has led to multitudes abandoning Christianity first in the West, and in much of the world after that, arguably it is the false theory of evolution.

It may be interesting to note that in Communist gulags and Concentration Camps where they persecuted and tortured Christians, they did not teach false Marxist economics; rather, they promoted Darwin's Theory of Evolution.

Source: http://archives.sspx.org/against_sound_bites/devolution_of_evolution.htm

"In 1947, Bishop O’Gara was imprisoned by the Chinese Communists and wrote from his prison cell regarding the Marxist indoctrination of his flock. A number of them were “hopeless” to the new regime and were executed. Those considered “salvageable” had to attend a week-long class as the new “People’s Republic” was born. His letter described the retraining classes. He does not refer to Marxist philosophy, redistribution of wealth, or even basic socialist principles, but rather Darwinian evolution. This was what was considered the first vital step towards a cooperative communist populace. Eliminate God the Creator, eliminate original sin, replace God with the State.

The Communists utilized Darwin’s observations of natural selection1 (which are valid observations) to advance a concept that all life, humans included, is pure chance resulting from environmental pressures existing for untold millions of years slowly molding them into their current status. The beginnings of life resulted from chance occurrences with random molecules. From a primordial ooze came the first living cell which became a two-celled organism and, billions of years later, became a human being, an organism of 100 trillion cells. The Chinese relied upon Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution to undermine the religious foundation of millions of faithful. Those too strong to crack were eliminated.2"

The below was written in an American Creation Science Text Book in 1928 by Rev. Williams in New Jersey. It also presciently exposed the "Piltdown Man" Evolutionist Hoax decades before evolutionists admitted it: http://ldolphin.org/wmwilliams.html

Thoughts?

"So baneful has been the effect of teaching evolution as a proven hypothesis, that multitudes have been led into infidelity [apostasy] and atheism. Prof. James H. Leuba, of Bryn Mawr College, Pa. sent a questionnaire to 1000 of the most prominent scientists teaching sciences relating to evolution. The replies indicate that more than one-half do not believe in a personal God, nor the immortality of the soul--beliefs almost universal even in the heathen world. So pernicious is this doctrine of evolution that more than one-half of the professors who teach it and kindred subjects, are infidels and atheists and farther from God than the ignorant heathen. And while we are happy in the conviction that the great majority of professors and teachers of other subjects are Christians [i.e. were Christians, in 1928], yet one or two atheists or infidels are sufficient to make havoc of the faith of many, in a great college or university.

A doctrine so abhorrent to the conscience, so contrary to the well nigh universal belief, and so fruitful of evil, certainly can not be true. Small wonder is it that students are fast becoming infidels and atheists, and we shudder as we think of the coming generation. A great responsibility rests upon the authorities who employ such teachers.

The answers of the students in seven large representative colleges and universities to Prof. Leuba's questionnaire, show that while only 15% of the Freshmen have abandoned the Christian religion, 30% of the Juniors and over 40% of the Seniors have abandoned the Christian faith. Note the steady and rapid growth of infidelity and atheism as a result of this pernicious theory.

Will Christian parents patronize or support or endow institutions that give an education that is worse than worthless? What the colleges teach today the world will believe tomorrow.

Atheism, under its own name, has never had many to embrace it. Its only hope is to be tolerated and believed under some other name. In Russia, no man is allowed to belong to the ruling (Communist) party unless he is an atheist. It will be a sorry world when "scientific" atheism wins, under the name of evolution.

No one has a moral right to believe what is false, much less to teach it, under the specious plea of freedom of thought.

It is the privilege and duty of parents to send their children to institutions that are safe.

Nathan Leopold, Jr., and Richard Loeb kidnapped and cruelly murdered Robert Franks. Both were brilliant scholars and atheists. Both graduates of universities though minors, and both were taking a post-graduate course in the University of Chicago. It is asserted and widely believed that they were encouraged in their atheistic belief by the teaching of evolution and modernism, and were thus prepared to commit a crime that shocked the world.

Most of the writers who advocated evolution became atheists or infidels; most of the professors who teach it, believe neither in God nor the immortality of the soul; and the number of students discarding Christianity rose from 15% in the Freshman year to 40% in the Senior. What more proof is needed?"
This is very well written and proposed.
To me the first inconsistency lies in the fact that evolution simply isn't true. Christianity is based in truth. Anything antithetical to truth is contrary to Christianity.
Second, there are manifold errors in evolution that simply preclude it as a possibility that even grade school children understand.
1. As has been noted, where did matter originate in the first place?
2. The laws of entropy which deals with the breakdown of cells is counter to cell development and cooperation
3. For even 1 cell to exist it requires every part of the cell to live. It is impossible for the parts of the cell to organize for life unless they came into existence at exactly the same moment.
4. If the earth is billions of years old, calculating the size of the sun at that time would place it 50% closer to the earth rendering it uninhabitable.
There are legion more examples. I just don't want to bore you. And all of these examples come from homeschooling materials I have used to educate my kids.
So anyone who teaches the "theory" of evolution, particularly those who teach it as truth, are doing so in disagreement with God and possibly rebelliously and with disdain. They should be respectfully challenged.
 
Jan 14, 2021
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#13
that is contrary to the Bible in having fixed 'kinds' of species with variation in their lines.. but not changing across species.
There is nothing in the Bible that states that species can't change kinds.

In the OT: Clay was turned into mankind. Moses's staff was wood (piece of a tree) that was transmutated by God into a snake.

In the NT: humans become a new creature in Christ. Rocks can be raised as sons of Abraham.

Transmutation is a Biblically supported concept. "Kinds" can be changed. Why would we assume God couldn't do that?

Evolution also is put hand in hand with the rate of growth and decay being always the same. This doesn't mesh with the Bible having catastrophic changes.
Evolution is not considered to take place at a constant rate of change (e.g. the Cambrian explosion).

I'm interested in your concept here though. Biblically, what catastrophic change do you consider to be incompatible?

Yes, you could have a model of evolution that could be ruled out, but the topic we should be exploring in detail is the principle of evolution itself, not a particular model of it.

We should challenge our assumptions about things, and a common set of assumptions I'm used to seeing surrounds the creation account and Noah's flood. It's the same type of assumption that erroneously leads people to say that Adam and Eve specifically ate an apple (thereby enforcing a belief that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was an apple tree)

So it isn't compatible. But it isn't a salvation issue.
Salvation is the more important topic.

Creation via evolution vs spontaneous creation is an argument about the methods God used to create everything, and to some extent it is a conversation about OT exegesis and translation.

Is it "Adam" or "mankind"? Are they literal days or figurative days? What process is actually being described by dust from the ground being made into the form of man? Etc.

There are many many many believers on the theistic Evolution way of thinking.

I'm a young earther myself.
You can be a young earther and still believe in evolution. I think there is room for healthy discussion about many of these topics.

The conversation is so often between atheistic metaphysical naturalism vs theistic spontaneous creation that it is easy to lose track of the fact that "creation via evolution" vs. "spontaneous creation" is an entirely separate topic that usually isn't well explored.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
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#14
If I am a person of power and influence, I say that feces are fragrant and will also be believed. This has nothing to do with Communists, because people blindly believe in people of power, power and fame.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
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#15
"In 1947, Bishop O’Gara was imprisoned by the Chinese Communists and wrote from his prison cell regarding the Marxist indoctrination of his flock.

So why didn't the Communists kill him?

Because he is more famous than others? So the others shall be dead!
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
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#16
I want to say that this is life. No matter you are rich or poor, you will encounter problems in life. For example, if people believe in God, what else should Bishop O’Gara do? They can go to meet God, I mean dead and raised.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
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#17
Marx is a damned Jew... Jews are blessed by God, so communism is right。。。。
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
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#18
I want to say that there is a difference between people. When I was very young, I read science fiction and thought about the existence of God in the world. At that time, I thought that if the God would die was a fact that I could not accept, so I thought that the God would not die.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
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#19
I know that many people have received the education of evolutionism and some other ideas. They have been brainwashed and cannot accept the concept of God.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
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#20
I said if someone talks to you about the conservation of energy and the heat death effect of the universe,You can tell him whether he knows about cell division. Cell division is completely against these theories, because one theory represents death and the other represents life.