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That brings to mind the guy who was born blind that Jesus gave him sight. I believe He said something like "this man was born blind so that you may see the work of God here"
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Ugly
Guest
No it is not demonic. There is no biblical evidence to support the concept.
Fact: We live in a sinful body. Part of that body is our brain. Sin corrupts mortal flesh. Just as physical illness is a result of the sin all around us, and in our flesh, so is mental illness.
Some people just prefer to think that everything has to have a demon behind it, despite the fact that that is not a biblical thought either. True, demons to have influence, and demons Can be behind things, but that's not to say they're behind everything. Humans, in their sins, are destructive enough on their own. Demons only enhance what mankind is already capable of.
Fact: We live in a sinful body. Part of that body is our brain. Sin corrupts mortal flesh. Just as physical illness is a result of the sin all around us, and in our flesh, so is mental illness.
Some people just prefer to think that everything has to have a demon behind it, despite the fact that that is not a biblical thought either. True, demons to have influence, and demons Can be behind things, but that's not to say they're behind everything. Humans, in their sins, are destructive enough on their own. Demons only enhance what mankind is already capable of.
I do not believe that mental illness is demonic. if someone were truly demon-possessed, number one, that person would NOT be a believer in Christ since Christians cannot be demon possessed. all of us can be oppressed, or harassed by them, but a demonic presence can NEVER indwell a Christian, nor an inanimate object. Secondly, if a person is demon possessed, then tey are not mentally ill, but so many "doctors" and other people peg everything mental illness, or ignore what clearly IS mental illness. MOST mental illness is brought on by a chemical imbalance in the brain or by a traumatic experience. MOST mental illness can be controlled by medication. Way too many Christians see a demon around every bush or corner and attribute things to demonic activity that clearly are not. A great deal of our suffering is self-inflicted. The few cases of demonic possession that exist are for very specific reasons. that's it and that's all.
Well I doubt it. Sometimes I see it as a blessing if anything. Especially if someone is blind. If they are blind, they may have to read the Bible in brail, but do you know how innocent they would be in terms of lusting or anything like that? Or if someone was deaf, you know how innocent they would be in terms of reviling, etc.? Sure, they miss out on some things, but in a way it is like an armor that prevents them from sinning.
Same thing with people with autism, etc. I think you get my perspective.
Same thing with people with autism, etc. I think you get my perspective.
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JDecree
Guest
I would say it might depend on the illness. If we transported some of the demon possessed people written about in the gospels to the modern world, they would be classified as mentally ill. If there wasn't a mental illness that fit their symptoms, one would be created to be sure.
Tactically, the devil would likely want possessions to be low-key and labeled as something other than what they are. Otherwise he would be working against himself(i.e. if possession is thought of as possession and not mental illness, then it lends credence to a spiritual world, and thusly the existence of God).
So I think it is possible that SOMETIMES what appears as a mental illness COULD be more than it seems. But maybe not.
Just my opinion.
Tactically, the devil would likely want possessions to be low-key and labeled as something other than what they are. Otherwise he would be working against himself(i.e. if possession is thought of as possession and not mental illness, then it lends credence to a spiritual world, and thusly the existence of God).
So I think it is possible that SOMETIMES what appears as a mental illness COULD be more than it seems. But maybe not.
Just my opinion.
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Ugly
Guest
Blindness and deafness are not mental illnesses. They are physical problems.
Also, lust is not always about site. Many women, especially, are not very visually oriented and do not require a visual stimulation to lust. And not all cases of blindness are from birth, so a person could still have visual images in their mind to lust over.
The potential for anger/frustration/bitterness among blind/deaf people would possibly replace lust, generating another type of sin. Sorry, but you've oversimplified the psychology of a person with physical (not mental) problems and the effects it has on their ability to sin.
Last time I researched this, the information I found stated that 1 in 3 Americans have SOME level of mental/emotional disorder. There are SO MANY levels that the disorder can be hard to diagnose and thus, properly treated.
I don't buy the "demonic" idea...........in my opinion, that tends to be the "catch all cop out," and is far over used.
I don't buy the "demonic" idea...........in my opinion, that tends to be the "catch all cop out," and is far over used.
I can absolutely assure you that mental illness is NOT demon possession. My daughter worked in a psychiatric hospital to put herself through university, and she saw some incredibly bad cases. There was a Somalian woman that I was almost convinced for the first time that mental illness was demonic.
But after finding the right meds, and therapy, she was moved into the realm of normal and was working on release.
Mental illness is a disease of the brain. We all suffer from the results of the Fall, brain and body and soul. I would be more worried about my spiritual state with God, than these old wives tales about people who have something wrong with their brains being demon possessed.
Really, I find it insulting to think that people believe this any more. This terrible stigma is what prevents people in church from getting the psychiatric help they need.
Agree with Braveheart that a Christian cannot be possessed. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit and demons cannot occupy the same space as the Holy Spirit. But I also do not think that other mental illnesses are demonic either.
Davidsnow you continue to amaze me with your ignorance. Lust does not come from the eyes, it comes from the heart. I think you need to follow closer to Jesus and not make such ridiculous statements. God was glorified through the healing of the blind man. What more do you need?
But after finding the right meds, and therapy, she was moved into the realm of normal and was working on release.
Mental illness is a disease of the brain. We all suffer from the results of the Fall, brain and body and soul. I would be more worried about my spiritual state with God, than these old wives tales about people who have something wrong with their brains being demon possessed.
Really, I find it insulting to think that people believe this any more. This terrible stigma is what prevents people in church from getting the psychiatric help they need.
Agree with Braveheart that a Christian cannot be possessed. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit and demons cannot occupy the same space as the Holy Spirit. But I also do not think that other mental illnesses are demonic either.
Davidsnow you continue to amaze me with your ignorance. Lust does not come from the eyes, it comes from the heart. I think you need to follow closer to Jesus and not make such ridiculous statements. God was glorified through the healing of the blind man. What more do you need?
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Witness45
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cara26
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Thanks for your thoughts guys
The reason I ask is because I have a mentally ill relative who is is currently in hospital seeking treatment. Sadly he tried taking his life because of all the paranoid thoughts and depression. I dont think he has come to terms what he did to himself and believes that he wouldnt actually do that to himself. Maybe its his way of coping with the trauma?
But his paranoid thoughts , thinking someone is out to get him and thinking that he will go missing is just over top and just got worse and worse before he tried taking his life. Saying this tho in the past he has treated family and friends bad and disprespected everyone. So some say that it is Karma that has come back on him from all the bad things he is done which has caused him to be ill? He didnt have the best childhood either so maybe its a build up of that aswell? Drug use has also been involved mainly marajuana from an early age.
But when Im talking to him its like Im not actually talking to him. So thats why I thought maybe its not so much the mental illness but demonic and for him to want to take his own life , I believe its the devil that wants to take his life. He tells me hes scared too
There is also a history mental illness that runs on his fathers side of the family. So maybe hes just inherited this?
I guess only time will tell to see how the medication will work ...
The reason I ask is because I have a mentally ill relative who is is currently in hospital seeking treatment. Sadly he tried taking his life because of all the paranoid thoughts and depression. I dont think he has come to terms what he did to himself and believes that he wouldnt actually do that to himself. Maybe its his way of coping with the trauma?
But his paranoid thoughts , thinking someone is out to get him and thinking that he will go missing is just over top and just got worse and worse before he tried taking his life. Saying this tho in the past he has treated family and friends bad and disprespected everyone. So some say that it is Karma that has come back on him from all the bad things he is done which has caused him to be ill? He didnt have the best childhood either so maybe its a build up of that aswell? Drug use has also been involved mainly marajuana from an early age.
But when Im talking to him its like Im not actually talking to him. So thats why I thought maybe its not so much the mental illness but demonic and for him to want to take his own life , I believe its the devil that wants to take his life. He tells me hes scared too
There is also a history mental illness that runs on his fathers side of the family. So maybe hes just inherited this?
I guess only time will tell to see how the medication will work ...
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Ugly
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The propensity to develop mental illness often increases when there is a family history.
But suicidal thoughts and attempts are not all that uncommon with mental illness. Drugs can enhance a mental illness that exists (illegal/misuse of legal) or, if strong enough drugs, can pull mental illness out. There are various factors that can determine the possibility of mental illness revealing itself in someone who has it dormant in their head already.
Sadly, in more developed countries certain mental illnesses have a poor rate of recovery compared to lesser developed countries. This is especially true of Schizophrenia.
But to assume it's demonic in nature to attempt suicide isn't feasible. At least not to automatically assume that every time. We live in a harsh world, and the sense that life is meaningless and the future is hopeless is not a difficult feeling. And when hope is lost, what is left to keep someone alive?
But suicidal thoughts and attempts are not all that uncommon with mental illness. Drugs can enhance a mental illness that exists (illegal/misuse of legal) or, if strong enough drugs, can pull mental illness out. There are various factors that can determine the possibility of mental illness revealing itself in someone who has it dormant in their head already.
Sadly, in more developed countries certain mental illnesses have a poor rate of recovery compared to lesser developed countries. This is especially true of Schizophrenia.
But to assume it's demonic in nature to attempt suicide isn't feasible. At least not to automatically assume that every time. We live in a harsh world, and the sense that life is meaningless and the future is hopeless is not a difficult feeling. And when hope is lost, what is left to keep someone alive?
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pastac
Guest
Ive read a lot of no post and people taking positions on is mental illness demonic or not. Well let me share some truth on the subject yes you can be suffering from demonic opression which is not possession and yes demonic opression can mimick mental illness in varios forms. The bible is always speaking to us about renwing our mind. Why would that need to be done if our mind was in harmony and abiding by biblical principals? It would not and we would be in a state of perfectedness. But we ar not perfect our minds are infected, affected by sin and sins origin. Deamons behind every corner is not the issue. The issue is not realizing they exsist and have a degree of power to cause our minds to be opressed. Medically speaking you cant heal the mind with a pill you can only bring it back into a state of balane if in fact it is out of balance. What if it is not out of balance and the pills do no good. We are so quick to discount scripture as being accurate on all subject because we believe what we believe. Very simply the demoniac in the graveyard had something wrong in his mind. Oppressed demonized whatever it was his mind was not well. When we renew our not well minds we open ourselves up to understanding Godly principlals apply. Demons can affect your mind and cause mental illness oh yes scripture is clear on that and they have the ability and desire to always be causing great anguish to them being tormented but all mental illness does not have a demonic origin. Hope this helps somewhat. And yes sometimes medcine must be used until it is clear what is in control of the mind that has the person opressed.
Matthew 4:24 - And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
Matthew Chapter 17[SUP]14[/SUP] And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a [certain] man, kneeling down to him, and saying,
[SUP]15[/SUP] Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
[SUP]16[/SUP] And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
[SUP]17[/SUP] Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
[SUP]18[/SUP] And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
[SUP]19[/SUP] Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
[SUP]20[/SUP] And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Romans 12:2 - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Matthew 4:24 - And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
Matthew Chapter 17[SUP]14[/SUP] And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a [certain] man, kneeling down to him, and saying,
[SUP]15[/SUP] Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
[SUP]16[/SUP] And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
[SUP]17[/SUP] Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
[SUP]18[/SUP] And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
[SUP]19[/SUP] Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
[SUP]20[/SUP] And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Romans 12:2 - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
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Nancyer
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My prayers go out to anyone living with any sort of true mental illness. I had a client who believed in her heart of hearts that there were people trying to kill her and take her house. She could hear them standing outside her front door talking about it. She knew their names, their history, why they wanted it, what they would do to her. My bosses always referred to her as crazy, and told me not to listen to her, none of it's real,"don't let her suck you in."
But can you imagine living like that? Having to live with that, believing it's real? Or not knowing what's real and what isn't?
She is now at a point, I heard, that she does still hear the voices, but seems to know enough to tell them to shut up and they do, for a time.
But can you imagine living like that? Having to live with that, believing it's real? Or not knowing what's real and what isn't?
She is now at a point, I heard, that she does still hear the voices, but seems to know enough to tell them to shut up and they do, for a time.
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Animus
Guest
Haven't finished watching this yet but I stumbled across it this morning and thought I'd share it once I saw the thread title.
[video=youtube;eOScYBwMyAA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOScYBwMyAA[/video]
[video=youtube;eOScYBwMyAA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOScYBwMyAA[/video]
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J-Kay-2
Guest
Jesus' authority over the spiritual world, or to be more precise, the world of spirits. Matthew has already recorded the account of the temptation in which Jesus overcame Satan, the prince of demons. But now in His public ministry Jesus encountered humans who had been so controlled by evil forces that they were completely out of control. We use the expression “demon-possessed” to describe these folks, because the demons took control of their faculties and tormented and twisted their lives out of control. But when Jesus came to their area, He brought deliverance for them from the powers of darkness. [h=3]Reading the Text[/h]Matthew 8:
[SUP]28[/SUP] When He arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met Him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. [SUP]29[/SUP] “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
[SUP]30[/SUP] Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. [SUP]31[/SUP] The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.”
[SUP]32[/SUP] He said to them, “Go!” So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water. [SUP]33[/SUP] Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men. [SUP]34[/SUP] Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw Him, they pleaded with Him to leave their region.
We have to remember also drug use will bring in symptoms of suicidal thoughts.
Listen to the side effects and so many will say "this may cause suicidal tendencies.
This is sad for the young man and I will pray he will be delivered. God bless you
as you pray for him too.
You have had a lot tell you they don't think mental illness is demonic, but I am showing
it can be... not saying they are wrong... but no one can be certain unless God shows
us how to pray for him.
[SUP]28[/SUP] When He arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met Him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. [SUP]29[/SUP] “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
[SUP]30[/SUP] Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. [SUP]31[/SUP] The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.”
[SUP]32[/SUP] He said to them, “Go!” So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water. [SUP]33[/SUP] Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men. [SUP]34[/SUP] Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw Him, they pleaded with Him to leave their region.
We have to remember also drug use will bring in symptoms of suicidal thoughts.
Listen to the side effects and so many will say "this may cause suicidal tendencies.
This is sad for the young man and I will pray he will be delivered. God bless you
as you pray for him too.
You have had a lot tell you they don't think mental illness is demonic, but I am showing
it can be... not saying they are wrong... but no one can be certain unless God shows
us how to pray for him.
From my study of demons, you are right that demon possession is rare, and total possession is really rare. It happens gradually when first one sin and then another is allowed to rule in our life. Allowing this demon influence often happens to a Christian. Also, allowing a damaging wrong idea about living in. These ideas can be many. A common one is that God created something wrong in a person so they aren't as good as the next person. Or that something causes a person to act in a damaging way, so they always have to be the cause of bad things. A person who can completely submerge their mind in thoughts that come from God knows such things as these cannot be.
I have a bipolar friend, very dear, very loving person. Intelligent and beautiful, but with a lot of ideas that work against her and are not God based. We have agreed that the difference between us, and a barrier to our understanding each other is that she is trying to find herself and what is true for her, and I am trying to find God and what are eternal truths.
I don't think this is a unique difference between Christ centered and people with mental disorders. These wrong ideas go on to cause the body, even, to act differently so medication helps. Sometimes how the body acts comes first. But the thoughts in our mind, science has found, has great influence on our body, even changing the physical make up of our brain. A common symptom of mental breakdown is a misconception of God. The very fruits of the spirit that acceptance of all of God are a definition of the most sane people.
I suffer from OCD and an anxiety disorder and am born again saved. At times it felt like I was losing control of my head, but I got put on medication. My pastor even asked if I was on meds, along with nurses at my church. Sometimes I wonder myself if it's an oppression, not possession, but I don't think so.
No matter what God let it happen and I have to trust it's for a reason. Sort of a thorn in the flesh thing. Or...maybe just how He made me and He is teaching me to accept that.
No matter what God let it happen and I have to trust it's for a reason. Sort of a thorn in the flesh thing. Or...maybe just how He made me and He is teaching me to accept that.
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cara26
Guest
Thanks J2Kay and everyone else for your thoughts on this
Everyone is praying for him thats all we can do.
Praying that he can have a purpose in life to live for. Surrounding him with love too. Hes getting a little better but still has a long way to go,have been reassuring him that he is in the hospital to get well and rest and that is why he is in there as his mind wonders off sometimes and he believes the nurses are up to something and are out to get him.Im believing more that its no so much demonic possession but more so demonic oppression that is surrounding him , the devil is playing on his weaknesses and telling him lies and trying to make him believe it. Maybe some kind of spiritual warfare going on?
But yes, will keep leaning on the lord for this one.
Will keep praying
Are there people whose body works in such a way that they have absolutely no control of their thoughts?
In the book "A Beautiful Mind", a schizophrenic man took control of his mind and cured himself.
Scripture seems to suggest it is possible. If it is, the thoughts allowed would have to change the structure of the brain and the way the body works, so it would be a long hard struggle, but if there is any control of thoughts at all, it seems to me it would be worth the struggle.
In the book "A Beautiful Mind", a schizophrenic man took control of his mind and cured himself.
Scripture seems to suggest it is possible. If it is, the thoughts allowed would have to change the structure of the brain and the way the body works, so it would be a long hard struggle, but if there is any control of thoughts at all, it seems to me it would be worth the struggle.