Tired of the Big LIE

[Jeff_56]

the word also says that those who are born again will always be at odds with , even unto death, those who are not born again.

 

[newbirth]

Yes I agree.
But what some do not understand is that some have a much mor difficult of resisting temtation than others.
Some have been raised in an ungodly home, have married ungodly people, and have ungodly friends.
Some of us are stronger that others.
When you teach a person that once they are saved they will not sin, or can resist the temptation and if they do sin God will take back his gift of salvation, they can not deal with it and just quit trying.
As I said, I have delt with people who were so confused and upset they even thought about ending their life.
They try to be perfect and sinless like you and Jason, and when they fail, they give up.
You false teaching is very dangerous to some people.

does your bible say resist the devil and he will flee from you???
does your bible say be perfect??? does your bible say sin not???
who teaches once a person is saved they will not sin???
once a person is saved they ought not to sin..
who teaches God takes back his gift of salvation???
people reject /turn away from God

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good scriptures so why all the fuss toward me, as these scriptures you posted say exactly what I have said all along. That you can not live in willful sins and still be saved unto eternal life.

Do you even know how to read? I am sorry, but how can you get that out of those passages?

those verses do not say that. your adding to the word.

those verses say what I HAVE BEEN SAYING.

A child of God can not live in sin, Because he has God in him, Who can withstand the chastening of God. Did your dad spank you as a kid. and yu laugh at his face and sin again right in his presence? Maybe yuo did not get punushed as a kid, and thats why you can not comprehend what this means?

The only difference is between the two of us is I think that you misuse the scriptures in 1 John to believe you are completely sin free no matter what you do,

No, I take it that a person who is born of God can not live like he did before he got saved. Because God will nto allow it.

and I take the full context to say as long as you stay walking in total love (Christ) you would not commit a sin because sin is based on bad and wrong doings toward others and self.
If you do sin you take yourself out of fellowship with Him, and if you chose to repent/confess that sin you regain your fellowship. If you however give into that sin fully your relationship with Him is completely severed as you have chosen to serve your original true master the flesh (sins).......

out of fellowship is not kicked out of family.

If I get sent to my room I am out of fellowship with my family, until my parent says I can come back out. But I am still a son.

 

[psychomom]

He gave us warnings because our sins separate us from Him.
This is why the Lord was sent, so that we can have a way to be reconciled to God by receiving remission of our sins.
This is done by following the standard to repent of them, get baptized, and confess future sins while walking in love. The bible especially through the words of Paul more than once state that we are called to walk in righteousness. Walking in habitual sins is not walking in righteousness, as the bible states all sin is unrighteousness.
The bible clearly says the Holy Spirit was sent to help and guide us in our walk, and if a person continues in their sinful lifestyle they are not born again of the Spirit.

1 Thessalonians 4:7
For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.


His word does not confirm to us, as we are to be molded and walk as He walked confirming our ways to His.........

guess what?

our sin no longer has the power to separate us from God! (Rom 8)
we have been delivered from the penalty of sin.
we are being delivered from the power of sin.
we shall One Day be delivered from the presence of sin.
all coming our way, minus our merit, in grace.

we avoid sin because God has placed love and gratitude for Him in our hearts.
we run from it, and to Him, because our sin hurts other people, and ourselves.

and Kenneth? we are reconciled to God by what Christ has done, not ever, ever
by anything we do, right?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Yes I agree.
But what some do not understand is that some have a much mor difficult of resisting temtation than others.
Some have been raised in an ungodly home, have married ungodly people, and have ungodly friends.
Some of us are stronger that others.
When you teach a person that once they are saved they will not sin, or can resist the temptation and if they do sin God will take back his gift of salvation, they can not deal with it and just quit trying.
As I said, I have delt with people who were so confused and upset they even thought about ending their life.
They try to be perfect and sinless like you and Jason, and when they fail, they give up.
You false teaching is very dangerous to some people.

Yes and I agree that some have harder times stopping from sin then others.
As some sins have a lot stronger hold on some then others, just like I used cigarettes as an example the other day.
I know some people that quit in one day, and know others that took them up to a year or two to quite. I do not believe once a person is born again they are immediately changed and stop every single sin right that minute. That would be unrealistic thinking, but however to say we will continue to always live in sin day in and day out is a false statement also. The Holy Spirit that works within us will mold you away from those things, and into walking in righteousness. I have experienced His power first hand, as I do not still commit the same sins any more that I once did. And I don't even have the same wanting lusts I use to have.
I will constantly stand up for God's word without fail against those who try to say we sin constantly every second, every minute, and everyday; as that is unrealistic to for it would then put a limit on what God can do in our lives and the denial of the Holy Spirit's power working within us.....

 

[3Scoreand10]

re 612(in case someone else posts in the meantime)
while false teaching might be dangerous to some people, your post is even more dangerous, as people don't find out HOW they can be saved.
if anyone trusts in themselves, then, absolutely - they have failed already.
jesus told the disciples the exact same thing.

and he told them, as always, that if they trust their heavenly father to accomplish the change in their life - salvation and everything associated with salvation , including freedom from sin and from the power of sin, from the power of the devil, from the power of religion, from the power of demons, and so on --- all the freedoms freely given by father in christ jesus,
then this is all already as good as done, "it is finished" you might say, as YAHWEH always keeps and guards His Word and His Own.

Some of you people must have never lived in the real world.
Growing up in an ungodly environment, living in an ungodly environment, working in an ungodly environment, and participate in the ungodless makes change very difficult.
Lets face it, God has to worker harder to straighten some of us out than others. I know because I am one of those.
I believe that God can change any sinner.
But some of us longer than others.
I am reminded of David, Samson, and even Peter.

 

[newbirth]

Eternal life is eternal life.

You can have it right now. Jesus said so. John said so. And paul said so (paul also said it was a gift, which means it can not be earned)

If it does nto last forever (ie, if one who has eternal life can die again) then Jesus lied in John 6. and scripture is a facad, and we have no hope. because God is a liar.

Your hope is in how good you are, and your ability to not fall into sin.

My hope is in eternal life, which God, who can not lie, promised before time began.

eternal life is in Christ....sin cannot abide in Christ...you cannot abide in Christ with sin...you cannot abide in Christ without being obedient to him
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[Sirk]

eternal life is in Christ....sin cannot abide in Christ...you cannot abide in Christ with sin...you cannot abide in Christ without being obedient to him
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Ummmm.....Christ became sin for us.....all of it.

 

[kennethcadwell]

guess what?

our sin no longer has the power to separate us from God! (Rom 8)
we have been delivered from the penalty of sin.
we are being delivered from the power of sin.
we shall One Day be delivered from the presence of sin.
all coming our way, minus our merit, in grace.

we avoid sin because God has placed love and gratitude for Him in our hearts.
we run from it, and to Him, because our sin hurts other people, and ourselves.

and Kenneth? we are reconciled to God by what Christ has done, not ever, ever
by anything we do, right?

Tell that to the Galatians who was walking in gospel message of Christ, and then were deceived to turning away from Him to going back to justification by the law. Paul clearly tells them that Christ has become of no affect to them, and that they have fallen from God's grace.

Galatians 1:6
I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from Him who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel.

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

(Christ has become of no effect; KJV)

 

[Sirk]

Some of you people must have never lived in the real world.
Growing up in an ungodly environment, living in an ungodly environment, working in an ungodly environment, and participate in the ungodless makes change very difficult.
Lets face it, God has to worker harder to straighten some of us out than others. I know because I am one of those.
I believe that God can change any sinner.
But some of us longer than others.
I am reminded of David, Samson, and even Peter.

Agreed.......I think they are disobeying the great commission by living in a bubble. In my estimation....if you ain't screwing up....you need to open the door to your self made prison cell.......it is unlocked ya know....it's just closed.

 

[psychomom]

Tell that to the Galatians who was walking in gospel message of Christ, and then were deceived to turning away from Him to going back to justification by the law. Paul clearly tells them that Christ has become of no affect to them, and that they have fallen from God's grace.

Galatians 1:6
I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from Him who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel.

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

(Christ has become of no effect; KJV)

did he say they were no longer saved?

 

[Sirk]

did he say they were no longer saved?

The scriptures he posted convict himself.

 

[psychomom]

The scriptures he posted convict himself.

i'm unsure what those verses have to do with the fact our peace with God
is only through Christ's Righteousness?

i think i should have been clearer.

 

[3Scoreand10]

Yes and I agree that some have harder times stopping from sin then others.
As some sins have a lot stronger hold on some then others, just like I used cigarettes as an example the other day.
I know some people that quit in one day, and know others that took them up to a year or two to quite. I do not believe once a person is born again they are immediately changed and stop every single sin right that minute. That would be unrealistic thinking, but however to say we will continue to always live in sin day in and day out is a false statement also. The Holy Spirit that works within us will mold you away from those things, and into walking in righteousness. I have experienced His power first hand, as I do not still commit the same sins any more that I once did. And I don't even have the same wanting lusts I use to have.
I will constantly stand up for God's word without fail against those who try to say we sin constantly every second, every minute, and everyday; as that is unrealistic to for it would then put a limit on what God can do in our lives and the denial of the Holy Spirit's power working within us.....

I never said that I live in sin nor did I say that people sin every second and every minute, but unlike you and some others that agree with you, I am honest and confess that I sin at least once every day.
I'm sorry Ken, but I just don't believe you when you say yo can go a day, a week, even a month without sin.

 

[Jeff_56]

life is hard, everywhere. disciples don't 'learn' to handle it, if they have not been crucified with yahshua, if they don't carry about the death of christ in their bodies like paul said , if they don't willingly and joyfully accept the loss of everything and everyone they loved, for christ's sake.
crucified with christ is not a myth. it is not a slogan. it is real.
once you find this out (because you cannot find this out unless the father grants it from heaven),
all the rest follows.(also as abba permits and brings all in all in yahshua to pass, accomplishing everything pertaining to salvation).

this is in line with all of scripture, and with the testimony of the ekklesia since the apostles suffered the loss of all things for the sake of the gospel, willingly and joyously without drawing back.

oh, there were some disciples who drew back. they told jesus to his face "this is too hard" and they walked away from him.

most of his disciples walked away from him. (or did you skip that part in scripture) ,
as well as most of the people of the world rejecting him.

get over it. there's no easy road. it is painful and suffering is required (the narrow path to life). death to self is part and parcel of the life of all believers alive in christ jesus.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Do you even know how to read? I am sorry, but how can you get that out of those passages?

those verses do not say that. your adding to the word.

those verses say what I HAVE BEEN SAYING.

A child of God can not live in sin, Because he has God in him, Who can withstand the chastening of God. Did your dad spank you as a kid. and yu laugh at his face and sin again right in his presence? Maybe yuo did not get punushed as a kid, and thats why you can not comprehend what this means?



No, I take it that a person who is born of God can not live like he did before he got saved. Because God will nto allow it.



out of fellowship is not kicked out of family.

If I get sent to my room I am out of fellowship with my family, until my parent says I can come back out. But I am still a son.

If Christ is in you then that means you walk in total love, which means you never have any faults.
So are you trying to say to me in the past month, you have never lied, drove past a person needing help on the side of the road, saw a homeless person and did stop and feed, clothe, or even give them shelter, and so on when it comes to other sins.
I think I am having a hard time understanding you because one minute you sound like you say we have sin every single day, and then another time you say you have no sin or can not sin. This is why I am having a hard time with you because that makes no since. You either are in Christ and He in you, and you don't commit sin at all, or you are not in Him and sin everyday. You can not have it both ways.
We can slip up and mess up here or there and take ourselves out of fellowship with Him, however the problem with your example of the parents sending you to the room is that you said you have to wait tell they let you back out. That does not work with our relationship with God, as we have to repent/confess that sin to be forgiven and cleansed of it through the Lord. Without that confession you will not be forgiven of it, and if you let it control your life again that sin becomes your master again and like Paul told the Galatians. That sin will have severed you from God, and you will no longer be under His grace; Unless you repent !!!

 

[Sirk]

i'm unsure what those verses have to do with the fact our peace with God
is only through Christ's Righteousness?

i think i should have been clearer.

Straws...they're grasping for straws.

 

[posthuman]

Tell that to the Galatians who was walking in gospel message of Christ, and then were deceived to turning away from Him to going back to justification by the law. Paul clearly tells them that Christ has become of no affect to them, and that they have fallen from God's grace.

Galatians 1:6
I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from Him who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel.

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

(Christ has become of no effect; KJV)

Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case.
(Galatians 3:15)

What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
(Galatians 3:17-18)

But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
(Galatians 3:22)

So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female,for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(Galatians 3:26-29)

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i believe that Paul is patiently explaining to those in Galatia that they are already justified and brought near to God in Christ -- so that if they turn again and try to be justified by their careful lawfulness, they have turned away from grace, forsaking the work of the cross, making it of no effect.

remember, he is not chiding this church for walking in sin -- he is chiding them for putting themselves under Moses' law and covenant. the problem is that they were already born of the spirit, and thinking to perfect themselves through the flesh. the solution he suggests?

So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
(Galatians 5:16-18)


please do inform me if i am not understanding this letter correctly

 

[kennethcadwell]

I never said that I live in sin nor did I say that people sin every second and every minute, but unlike you and some others that agree with you, I am honest and confess that I sin at least once every day.
I'm sorry Ken, but I just don't believe you when you say yo can go a day, a week, even a month without sin.

I did not mean for that to sound like I applied it to you, so sorry it sounded that way.
However there are a couple on here who have said that, and also stated that they do not have to abstain from sins.
This had no place in that you thought that way, as I was just stating it along with my testimony that nobody will ever get me to sway to confirm to how man has twisted the word. I will always stand firm in defending every jot and word that the Lord said His self and through the Holy Spirit that the Apostles pinned in the bible. I do not deny any scriptures within the bible, only how others have been taught to apply them if they do not fit bible's standards.
People have been brought up in a misconception of what the law is, and call people legalistic's for defending and obeying out of love all of the Lords teachings. The problem with that is from Matthew to Revelation is not the law, even if we defend and uphold the 10 commandments. For even Paul showed we are to uphold them in Romans 13:9.

 

[psychomom]

If Christ is in you then that means you walk in total love, which means you never have any faults.

i think you're referring to the doctrine known as Union with Christ?

it does not mean we can BE Jesus.
it means we now freely receive everything Jesus earned.