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Jan 24, 2022
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#1
According to you there is no hell. Satan, his helpers and all sinners and unbelievers will be destroyed by fire in the end (to sum it up). Correct? Why?
Consider these verses and please explain how they do not disprove this theology: Mark 9:47, Revelation 20:15, Matthew 10:28, Matthew 25:41 (mentions everlasting fire), Matthew 25:46 (mentions everlasting punishment)
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#2
That's an interesting way of introducing yourself to the site. :censored:

Um . . . welcome?
 
Jan 24, 2022
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#3
That's an interesting way of introducing yourself to the site. :censored:

Um . . . welcome?
Hi, I joined this site because I want to ask questions, get asked questions and understand other peoples beliefs better. I didn’t really think introducing myself was obligatory so I’m sorry I didn’t. Here it is then: Hi everyone, my name is Jonathan. 👋 I am a Christian believing in every single word that is written in the bible and I like to base my arguments on the bible. I don’t (as does my pastor) call myself after a denomination. I am a Christian. I follow Christ.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,871
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#5
Hi, I joined this site because I want to ask questions, get asked questions and understand other peoples beliefs better. I didn’t really think introducing myself was obligatory so I’m sorry I didn’t. Here it is then: Hi everyone, my name is Jonathan. 👋 I am a Christian believing in every single word that is written in the bible and I like to base my arguments on the bible. I don’t (as does my pastor) call myself after a denomination. I am a Christian. I follow Christ.

welcome. nice to ( online) meet you,
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,671
13,073
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#6
According to you there is no hell. Satan, his helpers and all sinners and unbelievers will be destroyed by fire in the end (to sum it up). Correct? Why?
There is little or no point asking SDA members to provide biblical support for their unbiblical beliefs. They have a mishmash of Bible truth mixed in with errors from Ellen G. White, which were never questioned. You can show them all the Scripture you want, but it will make no difference.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,685
1,920
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#7
I like to base my arguments on the bible
It looks like you're ready to "argue" and debate. I'm more interested in harmonizing. The relentless, circular debating that goes on around here is beyond annoying, if not childish.

I'll see you around I suppose.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,929
1,258
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#9
According to you there is no hell. Satan, his helpers and all sinners and unbelievers will be destroyed by fire in the end (to sum it up). Correct? Why?
Consider these verses and please explain how they do not disprove this theology: Mark 9:47, Revelation 20:15, Matthew 10:28, Matthew 25:41 (mentions everlasting fire), Matthew 25:46 (mentions everlasting punishment)

I'm not SDA but I do believe in annihilationism.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

A lot of negative things will not exist in the future.

Wiping tears away means no more tears. Tears will not exist.
There shall be no more death. Death will not exist.
There shall be no more sorrow. Sorrow will not exist.
There shall be no more crying. Crying will not exist.
There shall be no more pain. Pain will not exist.

"for the former things are passed away." That means they are gone, gone everywhere, gone forever. If those things existed anywhere then the scripture would be lying.



Tears, death, sorrow, crying and pain will be Annihilated and shall never again exist. Is it such a stretch that the unsaved wicked people will also be Annihilated? Scripture over and over promises that they shall be Annihilated. Believe what scripture says and reject false doctrines that teach otherwise.



John_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life ; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

"shall not see life" means will not be alive.

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell .

Being destroyed means they are Annihilated.

Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Perishing and being burned and being consumed into smoke means they are Annihilated.


This is just a small offering of what the bible actually teaches on this subject.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
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#10
It should be clear that unredeemed sinners will face "everlasting fire" (Matthew 25:41) as "everlasting punishment" (Matthew 25:46); and that this is characterized by "wailing and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50).
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#11
The lake of fire is in fact mentioned after the statement of Revelation 21:4 (in Revelation 21:8);

And therefore that punishment will still exist for sinners even after death, sorrow, and pain have been done away with for those who have been redeemed.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#12
In 2 Thessalonians 1:9, "everlasting destruction"

characterized by the algebraic equation y = 1 / x.

Where y is the wholeness of the individual, x is the elapsed amount of time.

y continues to diminish as x increases; and y never reaches zero in that equation.

Thus "everlasting destruction" is the ever-lessening curve of the wholeness of the individual continually decreasing and never reaching zero;

It is "everlasting fire" (Matthew 25:41) that is "everlasting punishment" (Matthew 25:46) that is characterized by "wailing and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50).
 

Radius

Senior Member
Feb 11, 2013
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#13
OP, welcome.

I used to believe in eternal torment. I am NOT a SDA, I'm a non-denominational Bible believer. But this video on the topic changed my mind. I hope you watch it.

 
Jan 24, 2022
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#14
I'm not SDA but I do believe in annihilationism.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

A lot of negative things will not exist in the future.

Wiping tears away means no more tears. Tears will not exist.
There shall be no more death. Death will not exist.
There shall be no more sorrow. Sorrow will not exist.
There shall be no more crying. Crying will not exist.
There shall be no more pain. Pain will not exist.

"for the former things are passed away." That means they are gone, gone everywhere, gone forever. If those things existed anywhere then the scripture would be lying.



Tears, death, sorrow, crying and pain will be Annihilated and shall never again exist. Is it such a stretch that the unsaved wicked people will also be Annihilated? Scripture over and over promises that they shall be Annihilated. Believe what scripture says and reject false doctrines that teach otherwise.



John_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life ; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

"shall not see life" means will not be alive.

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell .

Being destroyed means they are Annihilated.

Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Perishing and being burned and being consumed into smoke means they are Annihilated.


This is just a small offering of what the bible actually teaches on this subject.
You can not cherry pick verses and simply pretend that those you don’t like aren’t there.

Revelations 21:4 “And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away”. This verse refers to the righteous who, we can agree, will dwell forever with God. Then, there will be no pain or suffering or anything negative. For the righteous.

Now these 2 verses:
Matthew 25:41 “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”, and
Matthew 25:46 “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal”

how can you ignore these verses? There is absolutely no way to interpret these verses other than in their literal meaning. Everlasting punishment is pretty self explanatory, I think.

you also quoted John 3:36 “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
Now, it has not been given to me of God to interpret this verse but I believe souls will not “live” in hell. But they will exist. And suffer and be tormented.


Here’s a quote from your reply “Scripture over and over promises that they shall be Annihilated. Believe what scripture says and reject false doctrines that teach otherwise.”

But I do believe what the scripture says. I don’t understand how you can believe that hell is not real and at the same time accept that Mathew 25:41-46 (and that’s not the only passage) is part of scripture.

Matthew 10:28: “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell”.
“destroy” is a pretty broad term. I don’t know exactly what it means here but it must go along with the rest of the bible. The scriptures do not contradict themselves, I don’t care what anyone tells me. Maybe in this context “destroyed” means that there won’t be any hope for them, they will be morally, mentally but not existentially destroyed. I don’t know. It is possible to partially destroy something but again, I repeat, the scriptures do not contradict themselves.

To conclude my response, one of the reasons why “hell doesn’t exist” is a dangerous teaching is because it lessens the consequences of a sinful life. It takes away an incentive to want to be saved. People can think to themselves “I will live a full and extravagant life here on earth and that’s all I want. There isn’t a consequence for my careless and sinful life and if heaven exists then so be it, I may not have gotten there anyway even if I had tried to live a righteous life and then I would have missed out on enjoying life here on earth.”
 
Jan 24, 2022
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#15
The lake of fire is in fact mentioned after the statement of Revelation 21:4 (in Revelation 21:8);

And therefore that punishment will still exist for sinners even after death, sorrow, and pain have been done away with for those who have been redeemed.
Amen