Total Depravity
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Good, because Job did not fail ... nor did Job curse God.
That was Job's point throughout the whole ordeal. His friends accused Job of hiding secret sin and Job continuously denied their accusations. Job knew he had not sinned ... his friends did not believe him and kept calling him out for something he did not do:
Eliphaz: Job 4:7-9; 15:20-35; 22:5-9
Bildad: Job 8:4-6; 8:20-22; 18:5-21
Zophar: Job 11:3-6; 11:14; 20:5-29
Elihu: Job 33:26-28; 34:7-9; 34:11; 34:36-37; 35:12-16; 36:6-10; 36:16-21
All of Job's friends, including Elihu, believed Job had some secret sin he was hiding and that God was chastening Job for a specific sin for which Job needed to repent.
None of them, including Job, knew the attack was from satan and the attack was the result of the righteousness of Job which had been pointed out to satan by God.
The fact that God did not mention Elihu in Job 42:7 does not mean Elihu was correct in his surmisings concerning Job. Elihu believed exactly as Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar ... Elihu believed Job had sinned and Job needed to repent.
Was Job perfect in his understanding concerning God and His dealings? No, but Job never cursed God and Job never gave in to the erroneous accusations of his friends.
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That was Job's point throughout the whole ordeal. His friends accused Job of hiding secret sin and Job continuously denied their accusations. Job knew he had not sinned ... his friends did not believe him and kept calling him out for something he did not do:
Eliphaz: Job 4:7-9; 15:20-35; 22:5-9
Bildad: Job 8:4-6; 8:20-22; 18:5-21
Zophar: Job 11:3-6; 11:14; 20:5-29
Elihu: Job 33:26-28; 34:7-9; 34:11; 34:36-37; 35:12-16; 36:6-10; 36:16-21
All of Job's friends, including Elihu, believed Job had some secret sin he was hiding and that God was chastening Job for a specific sin for which Job needed to repent.
None of them, including Job, knew the attack was from satan and the attack was the result of the righteousness of Job which had been pointed out to satan by God.
The fact that God did not mention Elihu in Job 42:7 does not mean Elihu was correct in his surmisings concerning Job. Elihu believed exactly as Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar ... Elihu believed Job had sinned and Job needed to repent.
Was Job perfect in his understanding concerning God and His dealings? No, but Job never cursed God and Job never gave in to the erroneous accusations of his friends.
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yes ... and interestingly enough, in reading through Eph 6, we generally stop at vs 17 and believe we are fully equipped to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Why do we not include vs 18 (praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints)?
Have we considered that praying always is just as vital to us as having our loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness, our feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace, and having the shield of faith, the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit?
In Job 42, when was Job released from captivity? was it before or after he prayed for his friends?
Job 42:10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends
I believe prayer is the most underutilized tool in the toolbox of the believer (and I include myself in that statement) ...
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Why do we not include vs 18 (praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints)?
Have we considered that praying always is just as vital to us as having our loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness, our feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace, and having the shield of faith, the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit?
In Job 42, when was Job released from captivity? was it before or after he prayed for his friends?
Job 42:10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends
I believe prayer is the most underutilized tool in the toolbox of the believer (and I include myself in that statement) ...
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When Job was done?
And, passed the test?
The Lord looked Satan in the eye, and told him.
Job is a little worm compared to the greatness you had!
And, in spite of not deserving to be hurt?
He knowing I control everything? Job refused to curse Me!
And, what's your excuse now?
When you first rebelled, I began to discipline you, making you hurt in hopes of getting you to repent of your evil.
Did you repent?
NO! You cursed Me to my face!
You not only refused to repent!
You began spreading lies amongst the angels, that anyone who was made to suffer like I was made to suffer!?
He, too! Would have also cursed the Lord to His face!!!! And, been justified, for doing so!
God is unfair for punishing me and not allowing me back into my former position!
Well... if Job cursed the Lord to His face?
Things could be very different today.
That is why we all must go through a season of suffering for righteousness sake.
Some of us will please the Lord.
Some will be sent to the showers to become bitter and becoming mediums for the thoughts of demons to attack faithful believers.
Those believers overcome by evil must also be overcome...
The mature believer is the only one who glorifies Christ!
And, passed the test?
The Lord looked Satan in the eye, and told him.
Job is a little worm compared to the greatness you had!
And, in spite of not deserving to be hurt?
He knowing I control everything? Job refused to curse Me!
And, what's your excuse now?
When you first rebelled, I began to discipline you, making you hurt in hopes of getting you to repent of your evil.
Did you repent?
NO! You cursed Me to my face!
You not only refused to repent!
You began spreading lies amongst the angels, that anyone who was made to suffer like I was made to suffer!?
He, too! Would have also cursed the Lord to His face!!!! And, been justified, for doing so!
God is unfair for punishing me and not allowing me back into my former position!
Well... if Job cursed the Lord to His face?
Things could be very different today.
That is why we all must go through a season of suffering for righteousness sake.
Some of us will please the Lord.
Some will be sent to the showers to become bitter and becoming mediums for the thoughts of demons to attack faithful believers.
Those believers overcome by evil must also be overcome...
The mature believer is the only one who glorifies Christ!
exactly! ... include God in all we do ... good / not so good / blasé / horrible.
As a parent, do we enjoy it if our kids come to us only when they need something? ... or if they've dug a hole they need help getting out of? No! ... we enjoy our kids coming to us to talk about whatever ... we don't care as long as they're coming to us (don't get me wrong, we care about the mess if they've gotten themselves in a jam).
In fact, something my husband and I found is that when the kids were avoiding us ... that's when they were in a jam and they didn't want us to know about it. But we always found out and we always gave sound biblical advice (or tried to).
What about God, our Heavenly Father? Does He enjoy it when the only time we talk to Him is when we've got ourselves in a jam that we don't know how to get out of? ... what about sharing our joys ... our mediocre times ... just include Him in everything we go through. That way, we can have peace in the midst of turmoil ... joy in the midst of crisis ... love in the midst of the hate emanating from those who have turned their backs on God.
God is God when we're on the mountaintop and God is God when we're in the valley and God is God in between those mountaintop highs and the valley lows. Simple but hard-learned truth.
🙏🙏🙏
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As a parent, do we enjoy it if our kids come to us only when they need something? ... or if they've dug a hole they need help getting out of? No! ... we enjoy our kids coming to us to talk about whatever ... we don't care as long as they're coming to us (don't get me wrong, we care about the mess if they've gotten themselves in a jam).
In fact, something my husband and I found is that when the kids were avoiding us ... that's when they were in a jam and they didn't want us to know about it. But we always found out and we always gave sound biblical advice (or tried to).
What about God, our Heavenly Father? Does He enjoy it when the only time we talk to Him is when we've got ourselves in a jam that we don't know how to get out of? ... what about sharing our joys ... our mediocre times ... just include Him in everything we go through. That way, we can have peace in the midst of turmoil ... joy in the midst of crisis ... love in the midst of the hate emanating from those who have turned their backs on God.
God is God when we're on the mountaintop and God is God when we're in the valley and God is God in between those mountaintop highs and the valley lows. Simple but hard-learned truth.
🙏🙏🙏
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Too bad you filter out gnats... only to miss the rich content.
Here's a thought for you....
What is the meaning of Matthew 23:24?
The Pharisees pay attention to the gnat but neglect the camel, meaning they paid attention to minor rules
that made little difference to others, while neglecting the essentials .
We're all different.
Some of us have a sin nature that aligns with certain types whom the Bible warns us against...
Its to keep us in check... and recognize what needs to be changed.
grace and peace ...............
I am not understood by some....
Sometimes because they want to distract away from what was said.
And, others because their mind works in a specific pattern unlike my own.
Reminds me of...
I have told jokes where someone had to explain it to the one not getting it.
Others got it right away..
Why are you having such a difficult time with that when others do not?
Did you grow up having exacting and proper grammar drilled into you?
Sometimes because they want to distract away from what was said.
And, others because their mind works in a specific pattern unlike my own.
Reminds me of...
I have told jokes where someone had to explain it to the one not getting it.
Others got it right away..
Why are you having such a difficult time with that when others do not?
Did you grow up having exacting and proper grammar drilled into you?
Job 33:26-28 He shall pray unto God, and he will be favourable unto him: and he shall see his face with joy: for he will render unto man his righteousness. He looketh upon men, and if any say, I have sinned, and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not; He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.
iow ... Job, if you would pray to God, confess your sin, God will deliver you. Job had not sinned ... what Job was experiencing was a full on attack from satan.
Job 34:7-8 What man is like Job, who drinketh up scorning like water? Which goeth in company with the workers of iniquity, and walketh with wicked men.
... harsh words from Elihu ...Job 34:11 For the work of a man shall he [God] render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.
iow ... Job, you sowed sin and you're reaping God's judgment.
Job 34:36-37 My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men. For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.
Elihu believed that because Job would not hearken to the words of his friends, and had spoken foolishly, Job was going further and further away from God in his rebellion. Elihu wanted Job to be tried unto the end ... i.e. to continue under God's judgment until he is humbled and repents ... yet Job had not sinned as his friends continuously insisted.
Job 35:12-16 There they cry, but none giveth answer, because of the pride of evil men. Surely God will not hear vanity, neither will the Almighty regard it. Although thou sayest thou shalt not see him, yet judgment is before him; therefore trust thou in him. But now, because it is not so, he hath visited in his anger; yet he knoweth it not in great extremity: Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vain; he multiplieth words without knowledge.
Here, Elihu compared Job to insincere, evil men (God will not hear their vanity) and suggested that is the reason God was not answering Job (Job open his mouth in vain).
Job 36:6-10 He preserveth not the life of the wicked: but giveth right to the poor. He withdraweth not his eyes from the righteous: but with kings are they on the throne; yea, he doth establish them for ever, and they are exalted. And if they be bound in fetters, and be holden in cords of affliction; Then he sheweth them their work, and their transgressions that they have exceeded. He openeth also their ear to discipline, and commandeth that they return from iniquity.
Because Job had complained that he could not find God, Elihu accused Job of being among the wicked (God withdraweth not His eyes from the righteous).
Job 36:16-21 Even so would he have removed thee out of the strait into a broad place, where there is no straitness; and that which should be set on thy table should be full of fatness. But thou hast fulfilled the judgment of the wicked: judgment and justice take hold on thee. Because there is wrath, beware lest he take thee away with his stroke: then a great ransom cannot deliver thee. Will he esteem thy riches? no, not gold, nor all the forces of strength. Desire not the night, when people are cut off in their place. Take heed, regard not iniquity: for this hast thou chosen rather than affliction.
Elihu told Job if he would repent, God would remove Job from his distress and because Job would not repent, Job was under God's judgment and justice.
Throughout all the "counsel" of his all of his friends, Job was told that he needed to repent. Job could have made a show of repenting to please his friends, but Job held fast. Job did confess to God that he had uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not (Job 42:3) ... and I might add that we do the same at times ... and when we read the words Job spoke throughout the whole book, we need to keep in mind that Job was responding to whatever Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar and Elihu had said.
I think we should remember that (at least in my mind) Job had a close relationship with God prior to his time of testing and God hid Himself from Job while Job was tested ... and I think that bothered Job more than all the affliction he suffered. I believe Job would have endured the suffering much more easily if he knew God was with him. But Job could not find God even though he desperately searched for Him.
All four men were unwise and misspoke ... none of them knew the attack came from satan and all of them believed God had brought these afflictions on Job.
Add to that the fact that his four friends accused Job of sin that Job had not committed but for which they insisted he needed to repent. Job held his course on that point and God blessed Job in the end.
We are fortunate to have the Book of Job in our Bibles so we can study and learn the way of the Lord more perfectly.
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Those who have ears to hear?
They understand perfectly well.
And, have repeatedly proven that true!
But, for those who wish not to comprehend?
They work with a thought filter diverting and looking for gnats.
As a result?
They will keep stepping and slipping on the camel dung left in the room.
The camel that they wish to ignore.
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge
of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do
count them but *dung*, that I may win Christ."
I pray that God removes that filter from your mind, so you can begin to see what you have been missing.
There has to be a better way to try to not let someone make a point with you.
One that you do not wish to contend with.
No?
..... grace and peace
He writes like us Aussies speak. Makes perfect sense to me.
I was surprised to learn from a European student when I was attending Bible college,
that she could tell where someone is from by how they hold their eating utensils.
So how we speak?
And how write?
So be it....
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exactly! ... include God in all we do ... good / not so good / blasé / horrible.
As a parent, do we enjoy it if our kids come to us only when they need something? ... or if they've dug a hole they need help getting out of? No! ... we enjoy our kids coming to us to talk about whatever ... we don't care as long as they're coming to us (don't get me wrong, we care about the mess if they've gotten themselves in a jam).
In fact, something my husband and I found is that when the kids were avoiding us ... that's when they were in a jam and they didn't want us to know about it. But we always found out and we always gave sound biblical advice (or tried to).
What about God, our Heavenly Father? Does He enjoy it when the only time we talk to Him is when we've got ourselves in a jam that we don't know how to get out of? ... what about sharing our joys ... our mediocre times ... just include Him in everything we go through. That way, we can have peace in the midst of turmoil ... joy in the midst of crisis ... love in the midst of the hate emanating from those who have turned their backs on God.
God is God when we're on the mountaintop and God is God when we're in the valley and God is God in between those mountaintop highs and the valley lows. Simple but hard-learned truth.
🙏🙏🙏
.
As a parent, do we enjoy it if our kids come to us only when they need something? ... or if they've dug a hole they need help getting out of? No! ... we enjoy our kids coming to us to talk about whatever ... we don't care as long as they're coming to us (don't get me wrong, we care about the mess if they've gotten themselves in a jam).
In fact, something my husband and I found is that when the kids were avoiding us ... that's when they were in a jam and they didn't want us to know about it. But we always found out and we always gave sound biblical advice (or tried to).
What about God, our Heavenly Father? Does He enjoy it when the only time we talk to Him is when we've got ourselves in a jam that we don't know how to get out of? ... what about sharing our joys ... our mediocre times ... just include Him in everything we go through. That way, we can have peace in the midst of turmoil ... joy in the midst of crisis ... love in the midst of the hate emanating from those who have turned their backs on God.
God is God when we're on the mountaintop and God is God when we're in the valley and God is God in between those mountaintop highs and the valley lows. Simple but hard-learned truth.
🙏🙏🙏
.
This is a general defense of God's righteousness. He does not say "you" in addressing Job. There is no reason to assume Elihu is accusing Job of some secret sin here. Elihu does in his discourse accuse Job of justifying himself by impugning God's character in his complaints. But that is not a secret sin. That is a sin Job has performed in the open before them all.