Transubstantiation - Is it a mircle?
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Jesus is the Bread of Life and just as bread nourishes our physical bodies, Jesus gives and sustains eternal life to all believers. In John 6:35, we read - "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." Jesus is using figurative language to emphasize these spiritual truths. Jesus explains the sense of this passage when He says in John 6:63 - "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life."
The literal interpretation eating flesh and drinking blood (cannibalism) is ridiculous! Through faith we partake of Christ, the benefits of His bodily sacrifice on the cross and shed blood, receiving eternal life. Eating and drinking is not literal cannibalism here, but the receiving of God’s grace by believing in Christ for salvation, as Jesus makes clear by repeating the same truths below:
John 6:40 - Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54 - Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:47 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
John 6:58 - He who eats this bread will live forever.
"He who believes" and "he who eats this bread and drinks My blood" ends in the same result, receiving eternal life. Jesus is the Bread of Life; we eat of Him and are satisfied when we believe in Him. Bread represents the "staff of life" - sustenance. That which essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for spiritual life. The source of physical life is blood - "life is in the blood." As with the bread, just as blood is the empowering or source of life physically, Jesus is all the source of spiritual life necessary.
The literal interpretation eating flesh and drinking blood (cannibalism) is ridiculous! Through faith we partake of Christ, the benefits of His bodily sacrifice on the cross and shed blood, receiving eternal life. Eating and drinking is not literal cannibalism here, but the receiving of God’s grace by believing in Christ for salvation, as Jesus makes clear by repeating the same truths below:
John 6:40 - Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54 - Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:47 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
John 6:58 - He who eats this bread will live forever.
"He who believes" and "he who eats this bread and drinks My blood" ends in the same result, receiving eternal life. Jesus is the Bread of Life; we eat of Him and are satisfied when we believe in Him. Bread represents the "staff of life" - sustenance. That which essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for spiritual life. The source of physical life is blood - "life is in the blood." As with the bread, just as blood is the empowering or source of life physically, Jesus is all the source of spiritual life necessary.
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What you maybe didn't know is that Mithras' faithful celebrated a sacred meal with their God. So did followers of Adonis, Attis, Osiris, and other Pagan Gods of the Mystery Religions. New members of the Mysteries of Isis and Osiris completed their initiation with a sacramental meal.
End quote
https://pocm.info/pagan_ideas_sacred_meal.html
Catholic is a religion founded be Constantine, an emper or from rome, his religion is mitra. And mitra practice eucharist that is why the consept of eucharist in catholic copy from mithra religion consept
Basically catholic is mithra that wrapped up with christianity
From the cover look like Christian, but the content is mithra. No wonder catholic pray to queen of heaven
What you maybe didn't know is that Mithras' faithful celebrated a sacred meal with their God. So did followers of Adonis, Attis, Osiris, and other Pagan Gods of the Mystery Religions. New members of the Mysteries of Isis and Osiris completed their initiation with a sacramental meal.
End quote
https://pocm.info/pagan_ideas_sacred_meal.html
Catholic is a religion founded be Constantine, an emper or from rome, his religion is mitra. And mitra practice eucharist that is why the consept of eucharist in catholic copy from mithra religion consept
Basically catholic is mithra that wrapped up with christianity
From the cover look like Christian, but the content is mithra. No wonder catholic pray to queen of heaven
L
I like your explanation. It's hard to get folks to understand a spiritual thing is happening when you combine Jesus word with faith and take the bread and wine. It's not eating a crumb of bread and drinking and sip of wine, and reflecting in our memories. It's partaking in the body and blood of Christ in a spiritual way, so as to receive into ourselves the benefit of his body broken and his blood spilled for us. It is in a way attaching us to his sacrifice for us. Him via the Holy Spirit doing a work in us binding us to him.
E
I do not see where @mailmandan stating that partaking in the bread and wine is partaking of in the body an blood in a spiritual way? 
I do see he draws an analogy and connection between the two, as one points to the other.
I do see he draws an analogy and connection between the two, as one points to the other.
L
I do not see where @mailmandan stating that partaking in the bread and wine is partaking of in the body an blood in a spiritual way?
I do see he draws an analogy and connection between the two, as one points to the other.
I do see he draws an analogy and connection between the two, as one points to the other.
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These three groups do not replicate the Mass as such. Evangelical Anglican belief about the Lord's Supper is similar to other Christians. But the Anglo-Catholics are akin to Catholics. Here is the Catholic belief, which rejects the Lord's Supper.
"Before dealing with the proofs of revelation afforded by the Bible and tradition, certain preliminary points must first be decided. Of these the most important is that the [Catholic] Church intends the Mass to be regarded as a "true and proper sacrifice", and will not tolerate the idea that the sacrifice is identical with Holy Communion. That is the sense of a clause from the Council of Trent (Sess. XXII, can. 1): "If any one saith that in the Mass a true and proper sacrifice is not offered to God; or, that to be offered is nothing else but that Christ is given us to eat; let him be anathema" (Denzinger, "Enchir.", 10th ed. 1908, n. 948)"
From New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia
So according to the Catholic Church you are under a curse if you do not believe that in the Mass there is a true and proper sacrifice of Christ, and His body is literally eaten.
"Before dealing with the proofs of revelation afforded by the Bible and tradition, certain preliminary points must first be decided. Of these the most important is that the [Catholic] Church intends the Mass to be regarded as a "true and proper sacrifice", and will not tolerate the idea that the sacrifice is identical with Holy Communion. That is the sense of a clause from the Council of Trent (Sess. XXII, can. 1): "If any one saith that in the Mass a true and proper sacrifice is not offered to God; or, that to be offered is nothing else but that Christ is given us to eat; let him be anathema" (Denzinger, "Enchir.", 10th ed. 1908, n. 948)"
From New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia
So according to the Catholic Church you are under a curse if you do not believe that in the Mass there is a true and proper sacrifice of Christ, and His body is literally eaten.
Jesus still had his fleshly body when offering the bread. This body, whole and entire, was to be offered as a perfect, unblemished sacrifice for sins the next afternoon. He also retained all his blood for that perfect sacrifice. “He poured out his soul [which is in the blood] to the very death.” (Isa 53:12; Le 17:11) Consequently, during the evening meal he did not perform a miracle of transubstantiation, changing the bread into his literal flesh and the wine into his literal blood.
The bread and the wine are, therefore, emblems, representing Christ’s flesh and blood in a symbolic way, just as were his words about eating his flesh and drinking his blood. Jesus had said to those offended by his words: “For a fact, the bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” (Joh 6:51) This was given at his death as a sacrifice on the torture stake. His body was buried and was disposed of by his Father before it could see corruption. (Ac 2:31) No one ever ate any of his flesh or blood, literally.
The bread and the wine are, therefore, emblems, representing Christ’s flesh and blood in a symbolic way, just as were his words about eating his flesh and drinking his blood. Jesus had said to those offended by his words: “For a fact, the bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” (Joh 6:51) This was given at his death as a sacrifice on the torture stake. His body was buried and was disposed of by his Father before it could see corruption. (Ac 2:31) No one ever ate any of his flesh or blood, literally.
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Even perfect human bodies are corruptible, that is, they are not beyond ruin or destruction from a physical perspective. As a result, the apostle Paul could say that the resurrected Jesus was thereafter “destined no more to return to corruption” (Ac 13:34), that is, never to return to life in a corruptible human body. Only God’s action prevented the fleshly body of Jesus from seeing corruption in the grave. (Ac 2:31; 13:35-37) That body, however, was not preserved for the use of the resurrected Jesus, since the apostle Peter states that Jesus was “put to death in the flesh, but . . . made alive in the spirit.” (1Pe 3:18)
Interestingly, angels are shown to have corruptible bodies, since they can be declared to be subject to destruction: Mt 25:41; 2Pe 2:4; compare Lu 4:33, 34.
Interestingly, angels are shown to have corruptible bodies, since they can be declared to be subject to destruction: Mt 25:41; 2Pe 2:4; compare Lu 4:33, 34.
Please correct me if I have misunderstood you...
You're saying that the tortured, crucified, dead body of Jesus, which had been placed in the tomb, was "disposed", and the body in which Jesus later appeared to Mary and the disciples was not the same body?
If so, what happened to this dead body, and in what manner was it disposed?
You're saying that the tortured, crucified, dead body of Jesus, which had been placed in the tomb, was "disposed", and the body in which Jesus later appeared to Mary and the disciples was not the same body?
If so, what happened to this dead body, and in what manner was it disposed?
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according to the Catholic church you are dammed anyway if you are not Catholic
of course they will deny it but I have read it on Catholic sites
and they think the Pope is descended from Peter who was never a pope and they think Peter was THE rock Jesus spoke of
I don't understand all the Catholic threads when I know this forum frowns on the teachings of Catholics
they are getting clever disguising their teachings in the form of questions as though they were not sure themselves
it's really sneaky
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Peter said this on the day of Pentecost:
22“Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— 23this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. 24“But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.
25“For David says of Him,
‘I SAW THE LORD ALWAYS IN MY PRESENCE;
FOR HE IS AT MY RIGHT HAND, SO THAT I WILL NOT BE SHAKEN.
26‘THEREFORE MY HEART WAS GLAD AND MY TONGUE EXULTED;
MOREOVER MY FLESH ALSO WILL LIVE IN HOPE;
27BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES,
NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.
28‘YOU HAVE MADE KNOWN TO ME THE WAYS OF LIFE;
YOU WILL MAKE ME FULL OF GLADNESS WITH YOUR PRESENCE.’
29“Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30“And so, because he was a prophet and knew that GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT one OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE, 31he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY. 32“This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. 33“Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear.
34“For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says:
‘THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
35UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET.”’ Acts 2
Peter calls David a prophet...which he was as we know there is more than one Psalm in which he prophesies by the Spirit of God
while scripture states we will be given new bodies..as I'm sure you know....it says above that His flesh did not suffer decay
sounds more like Jesus body resurrected different but if His body did not suffer decay, His earthly body transformed rather than being disposed of
Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Jesus said partake of the Lord's supper in remembrance of Him not make it in to a sacrifice of Him.
Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Jesus was only sacrificed once according to His flesh.
For to say the bread and wine turn into the body and blood of Jesus would make it a sacrifice when it is only once on the cross and Jesus said do this in remembrance of Him not make it a sacrifice as if it has any bearing on taking away sins.
Only the cross takes away sins, not partaking of the bread and wine, not confessing sins to a priest, not saying hail Mary, and Holy Father told by the priest, although you should say the Father is holy.
Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
It appears the RCC wants to interpret this literally but Jesus did not mean actually eat His flesh and blood.
Which Paul never said anything about it as being part of salvation.
And Jesus told the disciples do this in remembrance of Him and said the bread is His body which was actual bread and said the wine is His blood which was actual wine which cannot be denied, and Jesus did not even give His body as a sacrifice yet, but the bread and the wine were still His body and blood.
Also when the thief on the cross acknowledged Jesus as Lord He did not say you have to eat my flesh and drink my blood as actual substance or you have no part in me, but Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise.
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Jesus said partake of the Lord's supper in remembrance of Him not make it in to a sacrifice of Him.
Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Jesus was only sacrificed once according to His flesh.
For to say the bread and wine turn into the body and blood of Jesus would make it a sacrifice when it is only once on the cross and Jesus said do this in remembrance of Him not make it a sacrifice as if it has any bearing on taking away sins.
Only the cross takes away sins, not partaking of the bread and wine, not confessing sins to a priest, not saying hail Mary, and Holy Father told by the priest, although you should say the Father is holy.
Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
It appears the RCC wants to interpret this literally but Jesus did not mean actually eat His flesh and blood.
Which Paul never said anything about it as being part of salvation.
And Jesus told the disciples do this in remembrance of Him and said the bread is His body which was actual bread and said the wine is His blood which was actual wine which cannot be denied, and Jesus did not even give His body as a sacrifice yet, but the bread and the wine were still His body and blood.
Also when the thief on the cross acknowledged Jesus as Lord He did not say you have to eat my flesh and drink my blood as actual substance or you have no part in me, but Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise.
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