TRINITY IS A FALSE TEACHING.

[st_sebastian]

The Holy Spirit is quite obviously God. What do you think it is? Satan?

Many non-trinitarians believe that it's an agent of God - Muslims teach that it's an angel - or it may be impersonal aspect of God - this is the traditional Jewish understanding, if I've read them correctly. The word in Hebrew means breath or wind more than it does "ghost," like an invisible person. It is something poured (Isaiah 44:3, Joel 2:28) and you usually don't pour people.

Also, when we write about the Holy Spirit, we usually write "it" rather than "he." We don't do that in English with people. With this kind of language, I can understand why people think it's impersonal. Why not call the Holy Spirit a "he," like the other two parts of the Trinity? I don't know anybody, personally, who does that.

We can believe that it's God, of course, but not because the only other choice is Satan.

 

[jackmoore]

The initial post assumes Trinitarians are Modalist (common error). There is absolutely nothing in the post that disproves the Deity of the Messiah, in fact I would consider the post to be extremely one-sided, as if the user was wearing a pair of 3D glasses that allowed them to only see particular passages they wanted to see, and completely disregard for the rest.

Some trinitarians are Modalist because their priest, pastor, or leader doesn't even tell them the truth that trinity is false. Also I see that if you take all the passages from the non-trinitarians and from the trinitarians the non-trinitarians will have more Bible refrences but the trinitarians will use the corrupitble and carnal mind to find "The Truth"

 

[jackmoore]

I'm not sure where you got this argument from. I'd thoroughly enjoy for you to show us how these texts should be translated, and how the language is evidence against the Trinity. It'd be interesting to hear if you have anything new to bring to the table, or if what you're doing is parroting an already, thoroughly refuted argument that you may have heard repeated somewhere.

Well your worship if you think you can do better give me proof from your direct translation of the greek to English. PLEASE. Lets see if you come up with some washed out argument. Because i can back up my so called "parroted argument"

 

[jackmoore]

Many non-trinitarians believe that it's an agent of God - Muslims teach that it's an angel - or it may be impersonal aspect of God - this is the traditional Jewish understanding, if I've read them correctly. The word in Hebrew means breath or wind more than it does "ghost," like an invisible person. It is something poured (Isaiah 44:3, Joel 2:28) and you usually don't pour people.

Also, when we write about the Holy Spirit, we usually write "it" rather than "he." We don't do that in English with people. With this kind of language, I can understand why people think it's impersonal. Why not call the Holy Spirit a "he," like the other two parts of the Trinity? I don't know anybody, personally, who does that.

We can believe that it's God, of course, but not because the only other choice is Satan.

The Holy Spirit is a thing don't you know that in Matthew 3:16 the Holy Spirit is in the form of a dove which is a thing not a person.

 

[jackmoore]

It is but one God , God the Father the beginning of life , jesus the beginning of all creation rev 3:14 /john 1:1-2 the holy spirit the spirit of the father , the Father is a spirit john 4 now look at zechariah 14:5 and verse 9

Jesus did not pre exist his birth in Bethleham

 

[jackmoore]

Well your worship if you think you can do better give me proof from your direct translation of the greek to English. PLEASE. Lets see if you come up with some washed out argument. Because i can back up my so called "parroted argument"

Sorry for the attitude. We should focus on the Bible not slamming each other

 

[jackmoore]

It's not my fault she misuses scripture to wicked heretical ends...

well you use non scripture for the same means.

 

[jackmoore]

Jesus is God
The Father is God
The Spirit is God

There is one God who exists as three distinct persons.

When will you submit to God? When will you repent of your wickedness and vile rebellion against God? You feel the conviction but you refuse to heed it.

Well this is the dumbest chart ever.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Well this is the dumbest chart ever.

You sound like a Oneness Pentecostal.

EDIT:

In another thought, I think this is the dumbest chart ever.

 

[Louis_Texas]

Most people do not read long posts. Short is best

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus did not pre exist his birth in Bethleham

He did not? Then how could he plainly state, before abraham was, He existed? Did jesus lie?

 

[Elin]

Many non-trinitarians believe that it's an agent of God - Muslims
teach that it's an angel - or it may be impersonal aspect of God - this is the traditional Jewish
understanding, if I've read them correctly. The word in Hebrew means breath or wind more than
it does "ghost," like an invisible person. It is something poured (Isaiah 44:3, Joel 2:28)
and you usually don't pour people.

Spirits are not people, they are persons.

And spirits can be poured, like oil and water, their symbols, can be poured.

Also, when we write about the Holy Spirit, we usually write "it" rather than "he."

Then you are writing incorrectly, because Jesus said "he" six times in Jn 16:13-14.

An "it"
doesn't have intelligence - Lk 12:12; Jn 14:26, 15:26, 16:13; Ro 8:27; 1Co 2:12-13; 1Jn 2:20, 27;
doesn't have a will - Ac 16:6-7; 1Co 12:11,
doesn't have affections - Eph 4:30;
is not sinned against - Ac 5:3; Mt 12:31-32;
doesn't speak - Ac 8:29, 10:19-20, 11:12, 13:2, 21:11; Rev 2:7;
doesn't decide - Ac 15:28;
doesn't forbid - Ac 16:7;
doesn't testify - Ac 5:32; Jn 15:26; Ro 8:16; Heb 2:4;
doesn't search into secrets - 1Co 2:10
doesn't show the future - Jn 16:13b; 1Tim 4:1; 1Pe 1:11, 2Pe 1:21;
doesn't appoint and send out missionaries - Ac 13:4, 20:28;
doesn't intercede - Ro 8:26-27;
doesn't enable - Ac 2:4; Ro 8:26;
doesn't counsel, teach, guide, convict, comfort - Jn 14:16, 26, 15:26, 16:7;
doesn't lead - Gal 5:18;
doesn't generate Christ's body and soul - Mt 1:18.

The Holy Spirit is everywhere personified throughout the NT
because the Holy Spirit is a "he," not an "it," who can be poured.

That is the testimony of the NT word of God,
and it is not for us to say that a spirit cannot be poured.

We don't do that in English with people. With this kind of language, I can understand why people think it's impersonal. Why not call the Holy Spirit a "he," like the other two parts of the Trinity? I don't know anybody, personally, who does that.

Perhaps you should review your Bible, beginning with Jesus, his apostles and other NT writers.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Holy Spirit is a thing don't you know that in Matthew 3:16 the Holy Spirit is in the form of a dove which is a thing not a person.

How can a thing comfort a person? How can a thing iundwell us? How can a thing teach us all things concerning Christ?

Did not know God was a thing Wow!!

 

[Elin]

The Holy Spirit is a thing don't you know that in Matthew 3:16 the Holy Spirit is in the form of a dove which is a thing not a person.

You could use more familiarity with the NT.

See post #212 above.

 

[vens]

John 10:30- " I and the Father are one."

John 1:1- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."...John 1:14-"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us."

John 14:9- "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father."

Matthew 1:23- "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son and they will call him Immanuel"-which means, 'God with us.' "

Acts 20:28- "... Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood."

Trinity:

Genesis 1:26- "Let us make man in our own image,..."

1 John 5:7- " For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

 

[Isdaniel]

John 10:30- " I and the Father are one."

John 1:1- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."...John 1:14-"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us."

John 14:9- "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father."

Matthew 1:23- "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son and they will call him Immanuel"-which means, 'God with us.' "

Acts 20:28- "... Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood."

Trinity:

Genesis 1:26- "Let us make man in our own image,..."

1 John 5:7- " For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

What does it mean they are one ?

 

[Isdaniel]

Why would god create Jesus, another god? I think he can handle everything on his own. There would be no purpose for Jesus and the Holy Spirit being separate beings, thats why he's all three.

John 20

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

 

[Isdaniel]

Texascowgirl. All I ask of you is this...Please explain the meaning of John 1:1

Proverbs 8

[SUP]20 [/SUP]I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:

[SUP]21 [/SUP]That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

[SUP]26 [/SUP]While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

[SUP]27 [/SUP]When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

[SUP]28 [/SUP]When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

[SUP]29 [/SUP]When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

[SUP]31 [/SUP]Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.( in the garden of Eden with the angels )

[SUP]32 [/SUP]Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.

[SUP]33 [/SUP]Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.

[SUP]35 [/SUP]For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord.

[SUP]36 [/SUP]But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

 

[vens]

What does it mean they are one ?

That was one of the verses that tied Father God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit in one Triune being.

 

[st_sebastian]

Then you are writing incorrectly, because Jesus said "he" six times in Jn 16:13-14.

I don't think I am incorrect, though. I wrote: "Also, when we write about the Holy Spirit, we usually write 'it' rather than 'he.'" Certainly, you can point to examples to the contrary, but I did write "usually." In my experience most people talk about the Holy Spirit as an "it." I'm not claiming it's the best usage, but it is my experience.

I do not think I am wrong about my experience. What percentage of the people I interact with on a daily basis do you believe use the word "he" rather than "it"? You seem to believe you have a better handle on this number than I do.

I think, perhaps, you're not approaching the conversation in the best way. You're trying to refute me, rather than understand what I'm writing. I'm not saying that the Holy Spirit is an "it" - I'm talking about the way people around me talk about the Holy Spirit and, if we take it seriously, then viewing the Holy Spirit as impersonal seems common.

That is the testimony of the NT word of God, and it is not for us to say that a spirit cannot be poured.

Why is it, I wonder, that you chose to ignore all the qualifiers I put into my post. I suspect it's because you thought I was teaching that the Holy Spirit was impersonal and therefore I needed to be refuted. But perhaps a better understanding is this - someone asked what the Holy Spirit was, if not God or Satan. I responded that, especially how I hear people talking about the Holy Spirit, that there are some things in between that people tend to believe.

Specifically, some people believe it's an impersonal thing. Is that clear now?

Perhaps you should review your Bible, beginning with Jesus, his apostles and other NT writers.

None of those people I know personally, in the common sense of the phrase. I hope you do not take the cheap shot at this point, but I suspect you will.

Concerning your copy-pasted list, yes, lots of "it"s do those things. Who in the world says no "it" enables? Animals, commonly referred to as "it"s, have intelligences. Etc.