The author of Hebrews isn't saying that we CAN'T draw back into perdition. He is telling them that we are made of better stuff than that through Christ. We SHOULDN'T fall back but we do - EVERY time we sin.
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True Born Again Christians Have Eternal Security
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The author of Hebrews isn't saying that we CAN'T draw back into perdition. He is telling them that we are made of better stuff than that through Christ. We SHOULDN'T fall back but we do - EVERY time we sin.
If you are saved from a flood by a passing boat - you are saved.
What many people do is that they see another boat that seems sturdier so they jump off that boat and jump on the other boat.
The CONTEXT opf Scripture - as I have ahown you - does NOT support eternal security.
Yes, we ARE saved unto eternal life. This is a gift that we can give BACK to God. You have not refuted any of the verses I presented - you have merely posted your opinions . . .
Hi Homward,
God certainly promised to never leave us nor forsake us, but consider the preceding statement, the clause: "Let your conversation [deportment] be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee" (Heb 13:5). We can't just cherry-pick the promises and blessings in the scripture without considering the warnings, conditions, and admonitions provided; they all hold equal value for they are all God's word. Also, God's great promises and blessings are for those who faithfully yield to Him, not those who profess to believe but disobey His commands. The bible does not provide comfort for those living rebellion to God.
It is God who begins and finishes the good work He started in us but the same inspired scripture says "We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain" (2 Cor 6:11). Thus a believer can behave in such a way that shows they received God's grace in vain. For God to sanctify us and finish the good work He started in us, we ought to be willing to renounce self and sin and trust in Him alone.
Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
1 Thess 5:22-24
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
This passage refutes unconditional eternal security. The warning is directed to Christians for they are the only ones who can draw back from the faith.
Heb 10:38-39
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Homward, the bible does not teach unconditional eternal security. It is a false doctrine leaving believers with the mindset of perpetual disobedience whilst having assurance of Heaven. Any doctrine, as such, that makes allowance for sin turns God's grace into lasciviousness.
J
jody50
Guest
We are saved by grace but we can fall. Galatians 5:4 "You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have FALLEN FROM GRACE." Paul is writing to christians who were seeking to bind parts of the old law, the law of Moses, and warning them of the consequences. Note that you cannot be "severed" from something that you were not once connected to. You cannot "fall" from something that you were not "in". Therefore, the contention that one "cannot fall from grace" is directly contradicted by this passage.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
That is faulty, and causes so much else in scripture to contradict.
Anyone who has heard the gospel. Is involved in a local group of believers has tasted grace, even if they still are not saved. They have fallen from grace because they had truth in their grasp and rejected it.
why do people want to be modern day pharisees? Why do they want to try to earn something scripture says we will NEVER EARN? and why do they want to think of themselves more highly than others who may not have grown as much as they have grown. but are still adopted sons and daughters of Christ?
As paul says, We (those who are saved) have not been given a spirit of fear. but an abbah father. who will never kick us out of his family.
You all preach fear. you can deny it all you want. you may not even believe it in your heart. but that does not negate the fact you live, teach and promote a fear based gospel. and deny the abba father who you claim adopted you!
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
So your saying the saving grace of God is not a sturdy boat. and we may find a sturdier boat?? now the inner feelings of your gospel and insecurity is coming through. no wonder you believe the way you do.
The gospel of grace is the sturdiest boat you will ever find. If I believed in a gospel of works like you do. it would be easy to jump ships to something that appears more sturdy. because your foundation is unsteady, there is no life in it..
No. it does not.
John makes it clear. they left because they NEVER WERE OF US (never saved) if they WERE SAVED. they never would have left.
Jesus says I HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. not that I MIGHT GET IT.. thus your misinterpretation of scripture is way out there. Your no better than the pharisees who crucified Christ. In fact, I would make bets if Christ came today, you would be against him also!
I'm not saying that at all. Excuse me for saying so but you seem to have a difficult time graspng what people are actually saying. I said that a person sees another boat that SEEMS sturdier. Sin is always alluring to us. this is called "temptation".
We know what is good for us but because of our concupiscence, we sometimes choose sin over Jesus.
1 John 2:19 is not a one-size-fits-all scenario. I find it interseting that instead of refuting the Scriptures I presented - you pull out one verse to combat them ALL. Try reading those passages and come up with Scriptural reasons about HOW I took them out of context.
O
oOfallen_angelOo
Guest
Question is, who are the real christians?
The reason why falling back makes it so difficult to return, is because falling back means rejecting totally the truth of God; forsaking the teachings of truth.
These people end up turning around and persecuting the truth, because they feel so strongly they have been deceived or lead astray, when actually, the fell away from their own lack of faith.
Even those in the truth still sin; the goal is to not sin, so sin is not falling away;
Only the 144,000 are going to be made perfect and righteous, to be caught up to heaven and taken alive; whilst even those who are in the truth and still sin, will receive passage of sins and not face the 2nd death; spiritual death.
You can indeed reject the truth and fall away; no one is guranteed a place in heaven.
There are no " free passes."
But if you mean by True Born Again - as in the 144,000 who will be made blameless and caught up to heaven, then yes, their salvation is secure.
But...
We don't know who they are.
The Bible says to " Hold onto your crown," because it can be taken away.
The reason why falling back makes it so difficult to return, is because falling back means rejecting totally the truth of God; forsaking the teachings of truth.
These people end up turning around and persecuting the truth, because they feel so strongly they have been deceived or lead astray, when actually, the fell away from their own lack of faith.
Even those in the truth still sin; the goal is to not sin, so sin is not falling away;
Only the 144,000 are going to be made perfect and righteous, to be caught up to heaven and taken alive; whilst even those who are in the truth and still sin, will receive passage of sins and not face the 2nd death; spiritual death.
You can indeed reject the truth and fall away; no one is guranteed a place in heaven.
There are no " free passes."
But if you mean by True Born Again - as in the 144,000 who will be made blameless and caught up to heaven, then yes, their salvation is secure.
But...
We don't know who they are.
The Bible says to " Hold onto your crown," because it can be taken away.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
1. I know exactly what your saying. Your gospel is not new. It has been spread since the beginning of time.
2. That is why you rboat is so unsteady. Your worried about sin. Why worry about it and let satan gain control over you? We are going to fall. When we do. do we worry and fear and allow satan to attack us? or do we put on the beltplate of righteousness, and understand It is as paul says,
Philippians 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
Titus 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
again, why are you trying to perfect your salvation by works of the law (righteous acts free of sin) and not depending on Christ in faith? Your buying into satans lie, and falling into his trap. the same trap he has caused many to fall in since adam and eve!
lol. I refuted the passages you posted. Funny how you did not respond to my refutations long ago. You waited until they were long gone and forgotten, then tried to say I have not spoken of them.
Why have you not responded to the passages I spoke of which refute your belief? all you have done is attack. with no basis!
Thats interesting. I had never looked at that passage quite that way. I always read it as an admonishment to not try and be righteous according to the law.
The flaw that I see in that thought is that the law is our tutor to bring us to Christ. If someone is on the way to having faith in Christ but they turn back to the law for their own righteousness, wouldn't you say that the law hadn't brought them all the way to a saving faith in Christ???
Because if the law had done its job, then that person would know that it wasn't his/her law obedience that caused them to have faith in the Lord and become saved.
There are some very scary warnings and scary predicaments that our souls are in before we come to a saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
But afterward... If God be for us, who can be against us?
Do you remember that part in the bible where it says that the law is our tutor to bring us to Christ? Do you know how the law is a tutor for us to bring us to a saving faith in Christ?
I'll tell you.
The law shows us our sin. Our inadequacy before God. How undeservng of His Mercy and Grace we are. The Law shows us we must have a saviour from the predicament we get ourselves into.
Once our tutor shows us these things we can't un-learn them. We know. There is only one way to Salvation.
Once we know this way of salvation we know the truth. Our concupiscence, as you put it in another post, can no longer fool us into thinking there may be some other way.
John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Indeed. Good question. We know where our hope is. It is not in our desires, wills, or our own power. It is only in the Grace and Mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Sister, God just love you despite all else, and it is your walk between God and you, not everyone else, yuo are free to decide what is truth and what is not, and you have said your peace with it, And noone else has toagreeor not agree again it is your personal walk that is between God and you.
I know God is able to get each one of us to stand in God,
Romans 14 a great chapter about disputes, even though when written the subject at the time was about food, where as this is about walking away or not being able to walk away from God by free choice. Have you ever tried to walk away? Could you?
This I have experienced first hand and is why I say I can't, it too great a salvation in eternity, vrs. the temporary world of death
Now that is truth, yet God does not forsake us.
Now the ? is when one sins or if one continues is trapped in sin, does not want to sin and yet sins, God knows who these are and who do it regardless. Willful sin is takiing advantage of this amazing grace that God has given to us through the cross of Christ proof in the resurection where we all by belief recieve new life in him by him amd for him Christ that is.
Anyway, there are many people trapped in their sin trying to forsake it and are miserable behind closed doors, watching every move they make and when failing going to God for forgiveness worried about how could God love them , God must be takiing Pepto-Bismal on me by now. Please God help me stop please.
This is those as I have been trying towork out my own salvation wiuth fear and trembling so scared that God will have nothing to do with them, been there done that. Scripture below deep meaning on how one escapes through Faith by sowing to:
Galatians 6:8For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How you can interpret God as a Tyrant a monster, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When one believes one seeks truth and God shows that one truth. Now I quarantee this unless one has pure motive to know such an awesome God, God does notrevealhimself to wickedness, So one motive need to be real and not for self-gain in dilluding others
God Speaking to us allComfort Me by letting Me know that you would see Me just to dwell in My Presence. Not for teaching, not for material gain, not even for a message, but for Me. The longing of the human heart to be loved for itself is something caught from the Great Divine Heart."
So if one wants to be content while suffering then here it is via the cross of Christ where all the riches dwell, amd this is revealed in the resurrection after reciveing the death our death with Christ
I am sorry for you in this being in and out of salvation, I suggest you might want tolock yourself up not go out for you might fall back and sin, youmight get mad at another driver and get in a fight and then die, oh so you are goiing to hell because you sinned is this what you are saying that we are in and out of fellowship when we sin?
If this is truth then I am not going out anywhere,because I tell youthe truthI want to have life. Which I know I have already. It is not based on me except whether I trust, have Faith in God and I do so therefore there is no falling back or in and out of fellowship with God as there is with people being of flesh, pride and predujces
Oh sister I ahve not promoted sin in any way to you or anyone else I have presented to you that God hath taken it out of the way foryouto by Faith serve God in te new life God has given you by the resurrection of Christ being born again in the Spirit of God dead to sin and alive to God.
Yet you and a lot of others here are promoting sin and keeping a mindset of sin to not sin, all this os doing toyou and others is keeping you trapped in sin Please read and ask God about the following verse and what it does, or younot yet so tired of sin that you can't keep from, everytimeyou think about it and try not to doit waht is it you do? Yes that is right Sister and you do not want or desire to do it agaiin do you?
Galatians 6:8For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
Now if you do sow to the Spirit of God and you learn by God and from God how to stay in His Spirit will you ever sin during this time that you are thinking of about How God took it all away and are thanking God for this
People, God does not want any of us to quit sin!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No why? Because noone can and if anyone could then there is no need for Christ.
So waht does God want? How about start the new life he has given you by the resurrection of christ. Yes Start when one does start loving as God loves them, there is no time to think about sin and or sin, one would be too busy rejoicing over this new life, while in sufferings here on earth knowing somehow God will see us through to the end
Hope to help only God can reveal what is said here
again see the key word Paul uses we are not justified by Law we are justified by Faith (belief) and many here are seeking to bve justified by law via not sining which is now a law unto themselves and are trapped into sin, flesh is very decieving and even creates self-righteousnes, waht did Paul say about this
[h=3]Philippians 3[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[h=3]All for Christ[/h]3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. For me to write the same things to you is not tedious, but for you it is safe.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit,[SUP][a][/SUP] rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; [SUP]6 [/SUP]concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ [SUP]9 [/SUP]and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
J
jinx
Guest
ever feel like writting something in a post that would please your flesh very VERY much but your held back because there is no use trying and could be very insulting?
yeah.... me too.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I do not think alot of people get this.
the law shows what sin is, and why we need saved. It also showed us the only way forgiveness can be granted, the sacrifice.
then scripture says Jesus sacrificed himself once, and paid the price of our redemption. and sacrifice and burnt offering are no longer done on a yearly basis for redemption. because Christ finished the work. He said it is finished. Why do people want to make it so his work is not complete. and we have to keep adding to his work?? I don't get it.
either his work is done, and we are saved forever by faith. or his work is not enough, and we have to work to earn our own way, there are no other ways about it..
True Born Again Christians Have Eternal Security, as long as they remain committed, for God will be faithful to keep them. 2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.