True Born Again Christians Have Eternal Security

[notuptome]

Jesus never made a UNCONDITIONAL promise of everlasting life.

Everlasting life is everlasting whether I possess the promise of it or not.

1 Jn 5:13 "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

The verb believe is present tense denoting a sustained ongoing belief. So one can conditionally have eternal life as long as he believes. One can also know if he quits believing he no longer has eternal life.

Eph 5:23 "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body".

Christ is the Saviour of the body, which is the church. So the church is what is saved, so if an individual has a desire to be saved, then he must be in the church/the body. No individual can be saved separate, apart from that corporate body, the church.

The promises of God are without repentance.

Jesus never saved a church. Jesus saved individuals who received Him as Savior.

You need to meet the Jesus of the bible whom to know aright is life eternal.

The Philippian jailer did not ask what must we do to be saved but what must I do to be saved.

What have you done? God is not going to ask what church are a member of but what have you done with My Son Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

The promises of God are without repentance.

Jesus never saved a church. Jesus saved individuals who received Him as Savior.

You need to meet the Jesus of the bible whom to know aright is life eternal.

The Philippian jailer did not ask what must we do to be saved but what must I do to be saved.

What have you done? God is not going to ask what church are a member of but what have you done with My Son Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

There is no verse that says God has promised slvation unconditionally.

Again, Eph 5:23 "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."


The verse plainly says Christ is the Saviour of the body (church). It does NOT say Christ saves individuals unconditionally that are apart/separate from the body/church. So the issue still remains in that the church at Ephesus was sealed but became lost by Rev 2.


Those in Acts 2 asked "what shall we do?" Peter commanded them what to do in v38. And those that obeyed Peter's command were "added to the church" v47. There is no salvation outside the church, outside the body of Christ.

 

[notuptome]

There is no verse that says God has promised slvation unconditionally.

Again, Eph 5:23 "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."


The verse plainly says Christ is the Saviour of the body (church). It does NOT say Christ saves individuals unconditionally that are apart/separate from the body/church. So the issue still remains in that the church at Ephesus was sealed but became lost by Rev 2.


Those in Acts 2 asked "what shall we do?" Peter commanded them what to do in v38. And those that obeyed Peter's command were "added to the church" v47. There is no salvation outside the church, outside the body of Christ.

You do not understand the very verses you are quoting. Saved souls are added to the church which is the body of Christ. They are not saved because they are in the church but are in the church because they are saved.

God has chosen the foolishness of preaching the cross to save those who believe. To those who believe it is the power of God unto salvation.

It is poor exegesis to conclude that the church in Rev 2 was lost.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

You do not understand the very verses you are quoting. Saved souls are added to the church which is the body of Christ. They are not saved because they are in the church but are in the church because they are saved.

You are implyng that a person can be saved OUTSIDE of the church, then some time later be a part of the church.


After the church began in Acts 2, can you show me an exmple of anyone saved OUTSIDE the body of Christ?

Before the world began, God pre-planned to save the church. Nowhere does the bible say God pre-planned to save certain individuals, unconditionally, outside the body of Christ. So those that obey the gospel are then part of that saved group. Those that do not obey the gosepl (2 Thess 1:8) remain outside that saved group and therefore remain lost.

God has chosen the foolishness of preaching the cross to save those who believe. To those who believe it is the power of God unto salvation.

It is poor exegesis to conclude that the church in Rev 2 was lost.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Rev 2 is a very good example. It's so good an example it has you trying to get a person saved OUTSIDE the body of Christ (church) so that you do not have to deal with the church at Ephesus falling away becoming lost.

Does Eph 5:23 say "Christ saves individuals unconditionally apart from the church"?

 

[svedbygrace]

I sincerely do not know what you are referring to because I found nothing to review. Maybe you could point it out, that would be helpful.

That makes you look foolish for quoting it !

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You do not understand the very verses you are quoting. Saved souls are added to the church which is the body of Christ. They are not saved because they are in the church but are in the church because they are saved.

God has chosen the foolishness of preaching the cross to save those who believe. To those who believe it is the power of God unto salvation.

It is poor exegesis to conclude that the church in Rev 2 was lost.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes, they are placed (baptized) into the church (his body) By God himself.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are implyng that a person can be saved OUTSIDE of the church, then some time later be a part of the church.

No. He is implying th emoment one is saved, he is made part of the church. If they are not saved, they are not a part of the church (even if they may be attending church services)


A

After the church began in Acts 2, can you show me an exmple of anyone saved OUTSIDE the body of Christ?

Everyone was outside the body of Christ until they were saved. No one who is in the body of Christ got resaved, they were already saved. You can;t resave an already saved person.

 

[SarahM777]

But the real question is can one become an unbeliever even after becoming a believer? If that is possible then eternal security is not 100% true.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

But the real question is can one become an unbeliever even after becoming a believer? If that is possible then eternal security is not 100% true.

[video=youtube;PVJV6zsEJvY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVJV6zsEJvY[/video]

 

[phil112]

Whether we are born again, or not, the Lord will discipline us if we misbehave.

It is sad to see so much misunderstanding of the Word of God. Too many here are listening to someone else's explantion of scripture, instead of studying to show themselves approved unto God.....

To resurrection: There are many men that go thru life with no problems, that flourish in spite of their evil behaviour.

Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.

Their payday comes, but for many it is judgement day.

To you "OSAS" people, tell me what this means.

[SUP] [/SUP]I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel

One of many verses exhorting us to keep the faith. Do you believe that someone that is " called into the grace of Christ" is saved? Of course they are. Does being removed mean not being under the grace of Christ? Of course it does.
Do you believe that someone that believes, and is baptized, is saved? Of course they are.

Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done

You really think you can't reject God? Of course you can. People make that decision daily. Here is what Peter told Simon:

Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

Was Simon saved? Of course he was. Did he think he would lose his salvation? You bet he did.

Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

Why didn't Peter or Philip tell him not to worry, that he was saved? Because he is the one that rejected the gift.No one can take your salvation, true, but to believe you don't have the right and ability to give it back is false doctrine. The bible never says that. In fact, it tells us just the opposite.

Let's see those that would disagree, start a thread denying that man is his own free moral agent, because when you say once saved always saved you reject that man has free will.

 

[phil112]

But the real question is can one become an unbeliever even after becoming a believer? If that is possible then eternal security is not 100% true.

You ever hear of someone named satan? You think he believes in God?

 

[SarahM777]

You ever hear of someone named satan? You think he believes in God?

Silly question. Of course he does. I just see way too many warnings about walking away the faith. Paul warns us to examine ourselves to be sure we are in the faith. With all the warnings OSAS can NOT be true. All of the warnings are one direction it is about us walking away from the faith.

 

[notuptome]

But the real question is can one become an unbeliever even after becoming a believer? If that is possible then eternal security is not 100% true.

What man can undo the work of God? Are we stronger than God? If man has a part then man could possibly undo what God has done but it is not so.

I cannot comprehend how anyone who was truly born again would ever have a desire to be unsaved. What kind of perverse mind can conceive of such a thing? The short answer is that one cannot become an unbeliever after becoming a believer. One can remain in unbelief but one cannot return to the darkness of unbelief after having come to the Light. It is not by the will of man that we are saved but by the will of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Silly question. Of course he does. I just see way too many warnings about walking away the faith. Paul warns us to examine ourselves to be sure we are in the faith. With all the warnings OSAS can NOT be true. All of the warnings are one direction it is about us walking away from the faith.

You have supposed that sanctification and salvation are one in the same. The warnings are to continue to walk with the Lord and continue to sanctify oneself. One however can never be lost after being born into Christ by grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[faroukfarouk]

You have supposed that sanctification and salvation are one in the same. The warnings are to continue to walk with the Lord and continue to sanctify oneself. One however can never be lost after being born into Christ by grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Romans 8.38-39 is a good reference point for the believer's security in Christ.

An apostate, on the other hand, is someone who has had light, but not life.

Blessings.

 

[SarahM777]

What man can undo the work of God? Are we stronger than God? If man has a part then man could possibly undo what God has done but it is not so.

I cannot comprehend how anyone who was truly born again would ever have a desire to be unsaved. What kind of perverse mind can conceive of such a thing? The short answer is that one cannot become an unbeliever after becoming a believer. One can remain in unbelief but one cannot return to the darkness of unbelief after having come to the Light. It is not by the will of man that we are saved but by the will of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Is Paul LYING here?

Galatians 1

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Paul is very clearly saying they are DESERTING God the Father. Remember Paul is writing this under the insperation of the Holy Spirit.

And again here

Galatians 5

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Is Paul lying here? Paul is not saying that they DIDN'T have grace to begin with. He clearly says they HAVE BEEN ALIENATED from Christ. One can NOT be alienated unless one KNEW Christ.

 

[notuptome]

Is Paul LYING here?

Galatians 1

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Paul is very clearly saying they are DESERTING God the Father. Remember Paul is writing this under the insperation of the Holy Spirit.

And again here

Galatians 5

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Is Paul lying here? Paul is not saying that they DIDN'T have grace to begin with. He clearly says they HAVE BEEN ALIENATED from Christ. One can NOT be alienated unless one KNEW Christ.

So how are gleaning from this that these folks were saved and then lost? Paul is speaking to his fellow Jews regarding them insisting that the keeping of the law be part of Gods grace? Paul is saying that you have heard Gods grace and salvation as a gift from God and now you want to add works of the law. Hey wait that does sound familiar? Many today attempt to teach this failed doctrine of works and grace intermingled.

John 3 tells us that men turn back from the Light because they love their evil deeds. vs 18.

I do not see how these verses support your position. Lets read out of the scriptures not read into the scriptures.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SarahM777]

So how are gleaning from this that these folks were saved and then lost? Paul is speaking to his fellow Jews regarding them insisting that the keeping of the law be part of Gods grace? Paul is saying that you have heard Gods grace and salvation as a gift from God and now you want to add works of the law. Hey wait that does sound familiar? Many today attempt to teach this failed doctrine of works and grace intermingled.

John 3 tells us that men turn back from the Light because they love their evil deeds. vs 18.

I do not see how these verses support your position. Lets read out of the scriptures not read into the scriptures.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

UMMM Sorry Paul says they have FALLEN AWAY FROM GRACE. If one has FALLEN from grace then how is one still saved? We are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. If one loses their faith in Christ Jesus,then how are they justified,how are they still saved? If one throws away the only thing that saves us then how is that person still saved? Please explain.

 

[notuptome]

UMMM Sorry Paul says they have FALLEN AWAY FROM GRACE. If one has FALLEN from grace then how is one still saved? We are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. If one loses their faith in Christ Jesus,then how are they justified,how are they still saved? If one throws away the only thing that saves us then how is that person still saved? Please explain.

They could only discard the idea that grace is the mechanism by which God saves a soul. Neither they or anyone else can discard the grace of God once received. To suggest such an idea is to suggest that grace is insufficient to save a soul.

Salvation is by the determinate will of God not man. If a man is convicted of his sin, Christ's righteousness and Gods judgment on sin then turns from his self righteousness to God he is saved and cannot nor would he ever want to be unsaved.

There are many today who profess but who do not possess. They have made the mental assent but never yielded to the Holy Spirits convicting power. They are products of the crop duster teaching of many radio and tv "preachers". Making a commitment to God is not the same as humbling oneself and begging God for forgiveness of sin that one knows rightly will send them to eternal condemnation.

These Jews to whom Paul is preaching wanted to cover their bases. They wanted Jesus but would not let go of the old traditions an sacrifices of their apostate religion. They would not surrender their own righteousness to the righteousness of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SarahM777]

They could only discard the idea that grace is the mechanism by which God saves a soul. Neither they or anyone else can discard the grace of God once received. To suggest such an idea is to suggest that grace is insufficient to save a soul.

Salvation is by the determinate will of God not man. If a man is convicted of his sin, Christ's righteousness and Gods judgment on sin then turns from his self righteousness to God he is saved and cannot nor would he ever want to be unsaved.

There are many today who profess but who do not possess. They have made the mental assent but never yielded to the Holy Spirits convicting power. They are products of the crop duster teaching of many radio and tv "preachers". Making a commitment to God is not the same as humbling oneself and begging God for forgiveness of sin that one knows rightly will send them to eternal condemnation.

These Jews to whom Paul is preaching wanted to cover their bases. They wanted Jesus but would not let go of the old traditions an sacrifices of their apostate religion. They would not surrender their own righteousness to the righteousness of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Then are you implying that both Jesus and Paul's warnings about falling away are meaningless? (An unbeliever CAN NOT FALL AWAY ONLY a believer can "fall away")