True Born Again Christians Have Eternal Security

[eternally-gratefull]

But the real question is can one become an unbeliever even after becoming a believer? If that is possible then eternal security is not 100% true.

It goes deeper than that.

1. Would God give someone eternal life he knew would one day stop trusting him for eternal life.
2. Can someone who had true faith. Lose faith completely
3. Did the person who claimed to have faith. ever have true faith in the first place.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Silly question. Of course he does. I just see way too many warnings about walking away the faith. Paul warns us to examine ourselves to be sure we are in the faith. With all the warnings OSAS can NOT be true. All of the warnings are one direction it is about us walking away from the faith.

No.

The warning is to make sure you HAVE real faith. Not mere belief. Which can never save you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Is Paul LYING here?

Galatians 1

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Paul is very clearly saying they are DESERTING God the Father. Remember Paul is writing this under the insperation of the Holy Spirit.

And again here

Galatians 5

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Is Paul lying here? Paul is not saying that they DIDN'T have grace to begin with. He clearly says they HAVE BEEN ALIENATED from Christ. One can NOT be alienated unless one KNEW Christ.

There is a huge difference in knowing as in being related, and knowing as in having a knowledge.

On is saved, one is not saved.

One who truely knows Christ would never go back to law. Only those who do not trust Christ would go back to law. Were they ever saved? No

As scripture says, A dog always goes back to his vomit. A dog goes to what he knows and really trusts. Because he was never created into a new creature.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

UMMM Sorry Paul says they have FALLEN AWAY FROM GRACE. If one has FALLEN from grace then how is one still saved? We are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. If one loses their faith in Christ Jesus,then how are they justified,how are they still saved? If one throws away the only thing that saves us then how is that person still saved? Please explain.

The mere fact you are alive (saved or not) is by the grace of God.

One can hear grace, and contemplate on whether they want to believe it or not. If they decide no. Then they have fallen from Grace.

 

[SarahM777]

Add to that,Paul's language makes it IMPOSSIBLE for it mean an unbeliever. An unbeliever NEVER had faith to depart FROM. One can ONLY depart from something that you do have.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then are you implying that both Jesus and Paul's warnings about falling away are meaningless? (An unbeliever CAN NOT FALL AWAY ONLY a believer can "fall away")

No. AN unbeliever can fall away quite easily.

How many people do we know who played the church game. professed belief in Christ, Tried to act like believers. But fell away and rejected Christ?

Are you going to tell me they were ever saved? John would disagree with you

They departed FOR THEY WERE NEVER OF US, for if they were TRULY of us, they never would have left.

 

[SarahM777]

The mere fact you are alive (saved or not) is by the grace of God.

One can hear grace, and contemplate on whether they want to believe it or not. If they decide no. Then they have fallen from Grace.

Sorry EG,

Paul is addressing the GALATIANS. He is telling them THEY HAVE fallen from grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Add to that,Paul's language makes it IMPOSSIBLE for it mean an unbeliever. An unbeliever NEVER had faith to depart FROM. One can ONLY depart from something that you do have.

Nothing in that passage would suggest the person ever had faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry EG,

Paul is addressing the GALATIANS. He is telling them THEY HAVE fallen from grace.

Sorry,

He is talking to a church which has believers and unbelievers alike. Just because someone attends a church does not mean they were ever saved.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

We are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. If one loses their faith in Christ Jesus,then how are they justified,how are they still saved? If one throws away the only thing that saves us then how is that person still saved? Please explain.

2 Timothy 2:10-13

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore I endure all things for the elect’s sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: [SUP]12 [/SUP]if we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: [SUP]13 [/SUP]if we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.


Sarah, if a Christian gets so carnal that they go into complete apostasy and their faith becomes shipwreck to where they believe not, they are STILL SAVED.


Why because 2 Tim. 2:12 says that if we belive not, yet he (Jesus) abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself (his own Body). We are members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones (Eph. 5:30)


We are the Body of Christ. That is one of the things which makes us Eternally Secure. If a Christian could lose salvation, then that would mean that the body of Christ could be severed.


Let me assure you Sarah; Christ suffered once (1 Pet. 3:18). And He ain't going to suffer again.

 

[PennEd]

It is sad to see so much misunderstanding of the Word of God. Too many here are listening to someone else's explantion of scripture, instead of studying to show themselves approved unto God.....

To resurrection: There are many men that go thru life with no problems, that flourish in spite of their evil behaviour.Their payday comes, but for many it is judgement day.

To you "OSAS" people, tell me what this means. One of many verses exhorting us to keep the faith. Do you believe that someone that is " called into the grace of Christ" is saved? Of course they are. Does being removed mean not being under the grace of Christ? Of course it does.
Do you believe that someone that believes, and is baptized, is saved? Of course they are.You really think you can't reject God? Of course you can. People make that decision daily. Here is what Peter told Simon: Was Simon saved? Of course he was. Did he think he would lose his salvation? You bet he did.Why didn't Peter or Philip tell him not to worry, that he was saved? Because he is the one that rejected the gift.No one can take your salvation, true, but to believe you don't have the right and ability to give it back is false doctrine. The bible never says that. In fact, it tells us just the opposite.

Let's see those that would disagree, start a thread denying that man is his own free moral agent, because when you say once saved always saved you reject that man has free will.

There is confusion about losing your salvation vs. losing your rewards.
You cannot lose the former.

The classic example is the cucumber that is submerged in vinegar and becomes a pickle. Once it is a pickle it can't become a cucumber again. Once you have been born again, you can't be unborn again.

 

[SarahM777]

Sorry,

He is talking to a church which has believers and unbelievers alike. Just because someone attends a church does not mean they were ever saved.

Sorry EG,

This is what Paul says to them

Galatians 1

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

Paul flat out tells them they are deserting the Father who called them to live in THE GRACE OF CHRIST. He flat out tells them THEY ARE TURNING TO ANOTHER GOSPEL.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry EG,

This is what Paul says to them

Galatians 1

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

Paul flat out tells them they are deserting the Father who called them to live in THE GRACE OF CHRIST. He flat out tells them THEY ARE TURNING TO ANOTHER GOSPEL.

lol. And you have NEVER SEEN THIS?

I see it all the time.

You will NEVER convince me those people were ever saved.

Why would people go back to being a slave when they have been set free. Unless they were never set free?

Thats like saying someone was given a million dollors, with no questions asked, just as a gift. And then telling me that person returned the gift of the million, and said he would rather work to earn it.

True salvation is worth more than a million dollars by an infinite amount. So you want me to believe someone who received this gift and experienced it by the power of God and the Holy Spirit who was given to them. Would all of a sudden give it back. And say, No thank you, I want to earn it..

Sorry not buying it.

 

[SarahM777]

No. AN unbeliever can fall away quite easily.

How many people do we know who played the church game. professed belief in Christ, Tried to act like believers. But fell away and rejected Christ?

Are you going to tell me they were ever saved? John would disagree with you

They departed FOR THEY WERE NEVER OF US, for if they were TRULY of us, they never would have left.

That is a misrendering of the text to make it say they departed the faith. John never says they departed the FAITH,John plainly says they departed from US. Big difference between the two.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is a misrendering of the text to make it say they departed the faith. John never says they departed the FAITH,John plainly says they departed from US. Big difference between the two.

Yeah your right.

there is a big difference.

To be part us would mean real salvation.

to depart from grace would not mean they were ever a part of us (truly saved).

 

[SarahM777]

lol. And you have NEVER SEEN THIS?

I see it all the time.

You will NEVER convince me those people were ever saved.

Why would people go back to being a slave when they have been set free. Unless they were never set free?

Thats like saying someone was given a million dollors, with no questions asked, just as a gift. And then telling me that person returned the gift of the million, and said he would rather work to earn it.

True salvation is worth more than a million dollars by an infinite amount. So you want me to believe someone who received this gift and experienced it by the power of God and the Holy Spirit who was given to them. Would all of a sudden give it back. And say, No thank you, I want to earn it..

Sorry not buying it.

Jesus plainly says that some will have faith and then the cares of the world CHOKE IT OUT. It can only be choked out if it is alive and growing in the FIRST PLACE.

 

[SeaBass]

No. He is implying th emoment one is saved, he is made part of the church. If they are not saved, they are not a part of the church (even if they may be attending church services)

I may have misunderstood what he was saying.

But he said "They are not saved because they are in the church but are in the church because they are saved."

The part I underlined I disagree wtih. One is saved because he is in the church, in the body of Christ.

Being "in the church" and "saved" are equivalent terms. As I read and understood his statement above, he seems to be trying to make them NOT equivalent. He is saying that one is first saved, then AFTER he is saved he then is placed in the church.

Here is the reason I am suspecting he is doing this separation between being "in the church" and being "saved":

Paul wrote his Ephesian letter to the church at Ephesus wherein Paul says that church was sealed, Eph 1:13. Yet some years later the church at Ephesus had fallen, left their first love and if they did not obey the command to repent their candlestick (church) would be removed (Rev 2) proving that salvation is conditonal and can be lost. So he is trying to disassociate salvation from being in the church to just the individual to avoid dealing with the church at Ephesus falling.

Everyone was outside the body of Christ until they were saved. No one who is in the body of Christ got resaved, they were already saved. You can;t resave an already saved person.

But one who has fallen away can be "re-save":


James 5:19,20 "Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."

 

[SeaBass]

What man can undo the work of God? Are we stronger than God? If man has a part then man could possibly undo what God has done but it is not so.

I cannot comprehend how anyone who was truly born again would ever have a desire to be unsaved. What kind of perverse mind can conceive of such a thing? The short answer is that one cannot become an unbeliever after becoming a believer. One can remain in unbelief but one cannot return to the darkness of unbelief after having come to the Light. It is not by the will of man that we are saved but by the will of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The work God did, because of His grace, was to provide a pathway to salvation through Christ for man. But it is up to man to choose to take that pathway or not. Some begin to take that pathway but for various reasons turn around, veer away becoming lost. But their turning around, veering away does not in anyway undo the work God did in building that pathway for man. That pathway remains for other faithful men to take and be saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus plainly says that some will have faith and then the cares of the world CHOKE IT OUT. It can only be choked out if it is alive and growing in the FIRST PLACE.

lol..

You have to make scripture agree, not contradict.

God said no one (which would include us) can take us from his hand

He said he would leave the whole flock to go get the one sheep who left

He said he would never leave nor FORSAKE us.

He said we HAVE eternal life. Why did he call it eternal if it is not eternal. And why did he say we have it if we can lose it. Talk about a contradiction)

to much scripture supports eternal salvation. If yuo want to pick and chose a few passages out of context. to make salvation based on man, and Not God. feel free.

As for me, I will trust God to do what he promised he would do.

 

[SeaBass]

Sarah, if a Christian gets so carnal that they go into complete apostasy and their faith becomes shipwreck to where they believe not, they are STILL SAVED.

This is biblically impossible.

Jn 3:18. Mk 16:16 unbelief is a condemned state no matter who is in that state, no exceptions are made.