TRUE GRACE MEANS YOU SIN NO MORE

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Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.


Php 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Php 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
 
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
 
first of all, you are very wrong, these verses you posted dose not speak of women TEACHING men..... it is about A HUSBAND TEACHING HIS WIFE AT HOME, HER WAITING TO TILL SHE IS AT HOME TO """"ASK"" HER HUSBAND WHAT WAS SAID IN THE CHURCH......... please read the scriptures in there full context, before you go repeating man's interpretation of God's Word.

That verse is not only about women submitting to their heads (husbands) but is also a general statement (applied in ALL churches) against women teaching in the church, and teaching men, usurping authority that does NOT belong to them. That statement is repeated and backed up by other scriptures. For example this one:
1Cor.14

[33] For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
[34] Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
[35] And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
[36] What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
[37] If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
[38] But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
Paul is clear: those who are spiritual will acknowledge this order, those who are ignorant will not. The fleshliness you keep accusing others of proves in fact to be resting with your self, seeing you reject the spiritual commandments of God that Paul reiterated.

And second... God back and reread what I said, in the Spirit and not your flesh.......... there was not one thing I said that even indicated that I said I or no one else was without sin......... I can't even see how you got that out of what was said..............
Go back and see that I asked you questions. Among them I asked what belongs to the "much to do" that you said was needed. You did not respond to that but your other posts here shows well what you mean. And you can quote all the scripture you want; you won't teach me, woman. If you want to reject godly standards and be in rebellion to your head (husband) and God, then that's your choice and you shall have your reward. Very noticeable is also the loud and contentious spirit in which you push your ideas, not a "meek and quiet spirit" (1Petr.3:3) by any stretch.

you have spoken truly out of your flesh............. ask God to show you the truth according to His Word and not man's.
You are the one who have spoken truly out of your flesh, since you trample godly instruction under foot, thinking in your pride that you know better. Your false judgment shall fall back on your pride self. If you were only ignorant, I might have spent some more breath on hoping that you would use some reason, but as you are also obviously PROUD in your ignorance and error I won't waste any more pearls for you. God resists the proud (1Petr.5:5), and so do I. Welcome to my iggy bin!

Good riddance.
 
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God, has giving a law, the law of faith. yet through grace in which this law came, Man was going to STOP SINNING THE SAME SINS, NOT COMING BACK EVERY YEAR FOR THE SAME SINS TO REPENT OF............ THE HOLY SPIRIT WORKING FROM THE INSIDE OUT, CHANGING THE HEART AND MINDS, PURGING US, CLEANSING US, PREPARING US FOR THE WORLD TO COME. there is so much more....... THE GRACE OF GOD IS NOT A EASY WAY THROUGH A DOOR AND ONCE YOU STEP THROUGH THE DOOR SALVATION IS HANDED TO YOU............ GRACE IS THE DOOR THAT WAS OPENED WITHOUT YOU TOUCHING THE KNOB, BUT ONCE INSIDE THERE IS MUCH TO DO, YET YOU ARE GIVING A GUIDE TO HELP YOU MAKE IT TO THE DOOR THAT LET YOU OUT ON THE OTHER SIDE......WHICH IS SALVATION. God Bless........

Are you saying you get to walk through a door called "grace" and have to work until you are guided to the door called "salvation"?

ummm you don't work for your salvation. You work because you already have been saved and born again of the Holy Spirit....

, not sure if that is what you meant but your words seem to convey that you have to work for your salvation and that you have to be perfect and sinless and never stumble.

However you do allow the Holy Spirit to sanctify you and conform you into the image of Christ. this is called sanctification not salvation by most people.

Justification and Sanctification are two different things and should remain separate.

We are Justified through Christ and not our works.
We are sanctified through chastenment and repentance and learning God's will.

Salvation is past, present and future.

We were saved by Christ death on the cross, we are being saved by the leading of the Holy Spirit and we will be saved upon resurrection and when we are given our new bodies in the future.
 
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what I am saying here, is that many people have come to believe that once they say a few words and after that they are there, and there is nothing else God requires of them............ yet the Grace of God is just the God given way to enter a process that will save us.

it is like saying, You want to give your children an allowance every week..... now you never gave them chores before to do, so it will not be because they did something to make you WANT to give them money ( grace) ...... now that you have decided you will give them an allowance, which was a whole year before you even told them what you wanted to do (grace): you call them to tell them that by grace "" you have decided to give them an allowance""...... you tell them that the only reason you want to give them this gift, is only because you love them.

But, in order to get the allowance they will be given things to do.... and at the end of the time you appointed if they do all you asked they will receive the gift of an allowance.

now some may ask, if I have to work to get it then it is no more a gift..... yes, it is still a gift, because it was only you without them doing anything MADE THE WAY for them to receive money...................... grace is not just what was giving......... GRACE IS THE WAY MADE TO GET IT!!

The way to receive it was your doing alone, your children never did anything for you that you HAD to MAKE a way to give them anything................ they can't say well dad we was doing most of that anyway so you should give it to us anyway........... they can't say that we tried that and you know we can't do it all, so you have to make a way that will be easy for us...........


GOD NEVER MADE A LAW IN THE OLD TESTAMENT WHEREBY ANY MAN COULD BE SAVED...... EXCEPT THE LAW THAT WAS GIVEN TO ADAM , WHICH CAUSED ALL MAN TO DIE.............

WE WERE NOT REDEEMED FROM THE LAW OF MOSES, WE ARE REDEEMED FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH WHICH ONLY CAME BY ADAM............ AND THE LAW OF MOSES WAS ONLY GIVEN SO MAN CAN SEE EXACTLY WHAT GOD SAY IS SIN.... WHAT IS AGAINST HIM, WHEN THAT LAW CAME MEN CAN NOW SEE WHY GOD SAID THEY ARE DEAD AND DESTINED FOR HELL............. IT WAS NOT TO SAVED THEIR SOULS, BUT TO SHOW MANKIND WHAT THEY NEEDED A SAVIOR FOR............ THE LAW OF MOSES OPENED OUR EYES TO HOW WE WAS ALREADY DEAD.... WE SEE OURSELVES IN WHAT GOD CALLS EVIL, AND HE WILL NOT ALLOW INTO HIS KINGDOM....... MAN WAS ALREADY SINNING THE SINS THAT WAS IN THE LAW OF MOSES... THE WHOLE WORLD.... SO WHEN YOU READ THE TEN COMMANDMENTS AND THE MORAL PARTS OF THE LAW AND YOU SEE YOU HAVE COMMITTED ONE OR MORE OF THOSE TRANSGRESSION... GOD IS SAYING.... SEE i TOLD YOU YOU WERE DEAD, THIS IS SIN AND YOU HAVE DONE THIS OR THAT AGAINST ME BECAUSE YOU ARE PART OF ADAM'S SEED, AND WAS BORN INTO SLAVERY............ YET i HAVE MADE A WAY TO SAVE YOU THAT YOU NO LONGER WILL BE UNDER THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH..... THAT AS YOU GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS OF CLEANSING..... BECAUSE ALL THESE SINS ARE PRESENT IN YOU, IF THEY WERE TO MANIFEST, i WILL FORGIVE YOU AS YOU REPENT/CONFESS IT TO ME, I WILL HELP YOU TIO NOT WANT TO SIN AGAIN THAT SAME THING AND WE WILL KEEP GOING TILL I , GOD HAVE MADE YOU PERFECT AS I AM PERFECT..... BECAUSE YOU COME TO ME AND ENTERED INTO A COVENANT WITH ME, I WILL DO ALL THESE THINGS I PROMISED YOU, IT WILL NOT BE EASY, IF YOU DECIDE TO LEAVE AND CHOOSE NOT TO CONTINUE, IT WILL NOT BE WELL WITH YOU FOR THERE WILL BE NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR YOU............ BUT IF YOU ENDURE TILL THE END OF THIS PROCESS, TRUSTING AND BELIEVING THAT WHAT I HAVE STARTED AS I PROMISED I WILL FINISH THEN YOU WILL BE SAVED.
HOPE I EXPLAINED IT BETTER THIS TIME..... BUT THE BIBLE CAN DO IT BETTER THAN ME..... ALL THIS IS IN THE BOOK OF ROMANS, HEBREWS AND GALATIANS.. YOU HAVE TO READ THEM TOGETHER..... IT'S LIKE PUTTING IN THE PIECES.... WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT HELPING TO SHOW YOU WHAT GOES WITH WHAT........... GOD BLESS YOU..

All of what Cookie says of Him is Truth.

Let not the Enemy crumble YOUR sweetest of already gain, victory in Jesus.

Galatans 2:16 .:)
 
I think I know what she is trying to say. Sin is still in existence, but we as Christians are no longer controlled by it. We have the ability to walk away from it by the power of the Holy Spirit.

read Romans 7 and 8 in their entirety. Paul fully explains that, when we conform to Gods purpose in listening to the Spirit of God, we do not sin. It's only when we listen to our flesh that we fall. Gods will for us is to walk in the Spirit at all times. But, Grace IS NOT the same as the forgiveness of sins. Grace is the ability to say NO to sin. Read Titus 2 for evidence of this.


So, in conclusion, if you do the research I have given you, you should realize that as we walk in the spirit, it is fully possible to completely defeat sin. Grace gives us the power to do so. Grace is not the forgiveness of sin and has not eliminated sin from the world. There are people who reject Christ that will suffer the consequences of doing so, and there are some that say they are Christians who really aren't. We also need to walk in grace and forgiveness towards one another, judging no one. With the same measure that you judge others, you will be judged. We are to love one another in the Lord. The church should NOT be divided. Jesus never intended for us to have denominations that accuse, divide and condemn eachother. That is true heresy. May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you and unite us all in His Spirit.
 
No that is wrong. You are a sinner until you die and go home to heaven. You fall on your butt on a daily basis. What you are trying to say is that Jesus forgives us our every sin because we are his children. To think that we do not sin and need to ask for his forgiveness borders on arrogance and it is wrong. We are human beings in a dark and fallen world. We are saved by his grace and forgiven for our sins by his grace.


what isn't possible for man is made possible for God. Through Christ Jesus we will be made new creatures. It's like a refiners fire. The impurities get melted out through searing heat.

Pauls words.

11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

I fully agree that we aren't sinless, and just like children we fall over and over again. But the story doesn't stop there. Children grow off of milk and eventually eat meat a child grows and grows and eventually becomes an adult. It is a purification process that has an end result of a complete indwelling of Jesus Christ and when that happens there is no more room for sin.

God bless :)
 
oh and Cookie :) when I started reading this post I randomly began eating a cookie.. interesting :) oh and when we are talking Grace, Salvation, and Deliverance, I think we should look at that word Deliverance. as in Lord deliver me from evil. Evil=sin. My great Deliverer :)

The blood was for atonement
our worldly selves being crucified with Christ is for deliverance baby !! WOOOHOOOO PRAISE GOD!!
 
...Sin is still in existence, but we as Christians are no longer controlled by it. We have the ability to walk away from it by the power of the Holy Spirit...

How do you reconcile these two contradictory statements, marked in bold?
 
No that is wrong. You are a sinner until you die and go home to heaven. You fall on your butt on a daily basis. What you are trying to say is that Jesus forgives us our every sin because we are his children. To think that we do not sin and need to ask for his forgiveness borders on arrogance and it is wrong. We are human beings in a dark and fallen world. We are saved by his grace and forgiven for our sins by his grace.

I have to disagree..yes we do 'stupid things' we sin but if we have accepted the free gift that is in Christ Jesus..2 corinthians 5:17 says..Therefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creation, old things have passed away behold all things are new.

We have been sanctified by the blood of Jesus..he who has clung to, accepted, depends on Jesus as their source is not under the law of sin. When he cried out 'it is finished' that mean it is done! What was required before has been done away with..so God sees the blood..
Psalm 103:12

New International Version (NIV)

12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.
----
that said he does not remember our sins anymore..want further proof?
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. hebrews 10:17

so..lets go boldly to the throne of grace, because we are not these filthy worms/wretches that the Church has tricked us into thinking. If you keep thinking you are a worm and profess to be a worm, you will talk like a worm/wretch..you will act like one because it is all in your mind..why are we still talking about sin when God has clearly made provision through Jesus for sin? Must it be the only thing the church talks about?

Those who have been washed in the Blood on the Son are now one! Because he said 2000 years ago! it is done! Now believe it!!
 
I have to disagree..yes we do 'stupid things' we sin but if we have accepted the free gift that is in Christ Jesus..2 corinthians 5:17 says..Therefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creation, old things have passed away behold all things are new.

We have been sanctified by the blood of Jesus..he who has clung to, accepted, depends on Jesus as their source is not under the law of sin. When he cried out 'it is finished' that mean it is done! What was required before has been done away with..so God sees the blood..
Psalm 103:12

New International Version (NIV)

12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.
----
that said he does not remember our sins anymore..want further proof?
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. hebrews 10:17

so..lets go boldly to the throne of grace, because we are not these filthy worms/wretches that the Church has tricked us into thinking. If you keep thinking you are a worm and profess to be a worm, you will talk like a worm/wretch..you will act like one because it is all in your mind..why are we still talking about sin when God has clearly made provision through Jesus for sin? Must it be the only thing the church talks about?

Those who have been washed in the Blood on the Son are now one! Because he said 2000 years ago! it is done! Now believe it!!

Yes I agree that he forgives us for our sin but we are going to be sinners until the day we join him in heaven where we will sin no more.
 
Yes I agree that he forgives us for our sin but we are going to be sinners until the day we join him in heaven where we will sin no more.

Not necessarily. Please read 2 Peter 1, Romans 6 & 8, Galatians 5, 1 John 3 & 4 and James 4, all of which completely contradict your idea that we are sinners until we enter into eternity.
 
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First, I did not ask you. Second, these scriptures are not an answer to my question as they do not support the statements by Hurricane1 .
 
Are you saying you get to walk through a door called "grace" and have to work until you are guided to the door called "salvation"?

ummm you don't work for your salvation. You work because you already have been saved and born again of the Holy Spirit....

, not sure if that is what you meant but your words seem to convey that you have to work for your salvation and that you have to be perfect and sinless and never stumble.

However you do allow the Holy Spirit to sanctify you and conform you into the image of Christ. this is called sanctification not salvation by most people.

Justification and Sanctification are two different things and should remain separate.

We are Justified through Christ and not our works.
We are sanctified through chastenment and repentance and learning God's will.

Salvation is past, present and future.

We were saved by Christ death on the cross, we are being saved by the leading of the Holy Spirit and we will be saved upon resurrection and when we are given our new bodies in the future.


You are correct in all of this, however it does not mean that we can just do whatever we want either. Our Lord has written His laws on our hearts and in our minds. So, while we are not under the law of Moses (actually we Gentiles have NEVER been under the law of Moses), we do have to allow the Lord to lead us through the heart and mind. We know through the Holy Spirit, what is right and what is wrong. Grace teaches us to say no to ungodliness. My wife recently left me for another man under the conclusion that sin no longer exists because of grace. She left me and our two daughters, destroying a family and is in full blown adultery. The bible clearly condemns this behavior saying that those who practice such behavior will not enter the kingdom of God. Please make the distinction that I quoted "practice". Anyone can fall and our Lord covers this, but if you think you can simply ignore the Holy Spirit indefinitely, doing whatever you want even when you know in your heart it's wrong, you are decieving yourself. What I have always taught my daughters... if love wouldn't do it, don't do it. I am not talking human sexual love, I am talking about the same love our Lord showed to us when He died for us.

Titus 2:
1You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine. 2Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance.
3Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.
6Similarly, encourage the young men to be self-controlled. 7In everything set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness 8and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.
9Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, 10and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.
11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
15These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

Romans 2:12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
 
How do you reconcile these two contradictory statements, marked in bold?

Romans 2:12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Titus 2:
11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
15These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

If sin were no longer in existence, how could we do anything that is sinful or ungodly. If the Holy Spirit doesn't give us the ability to walk away, why would grace be teacing us to say "no" to ungodliness. Whay would all of the writters of the New Testament have even said one word about sin patterns that could exclude us from the inheritence we have in Christ. It is all a matter of the heart now. We must live by the Spirit that God has given us...

Romans 8:12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship.g And by him we cry, “Abba,h Father.” 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
 
A few things Id like to point out. First, indeed we must walk to our best ability, that is called the cross. But we also need a Savior. Thus walking and not sinning is difficult. Jesus is perfect in us. When we listen to Him, we witness Him doing His works through us. We then are witnesses. Ever tried to not sin.. you get no rest. But relying on the absolute forgiveness offered at the cross gives us peace. Isaiah 53. So then Since the cross as eternal value for us who beleive in His Grace, are we to abolish it? No. Even Peter gets reproach from Paul in Galatians. So then lets not become ante or anti christs where the power of the cross is no longuer needed. For Grace is Grace and when you understand, peace comes. Grace is offered in Jesus Christ and we are asked by John to stay in Jesus Christ. Now fight for the sake of your souls to stay in that Grace eternal in Jesus name. Ps to restrain from sin is ok when we can. but the word is to show us we need Grace, and Grace is in the Son and He is the Word
Brothers, lets now fight that spirit for them, I fought it and won. Peace of mind and heart that Jesus is eternal Grace for me.
 
The only thing I am trying to say here, is to stay in Jesus Christ. If I am missing something, God will tell me and take care of me ensuring to bring me to is purpose for me by His Son Jesus. But we need Jesus as He calms our hearts. If I am wrong I ask forgiveness as he is faithfull and just to forgive me. I stick to Grace.
 
true grace means this isn't part of your understanding and nature just like the law an condemnation and sin.
 
"our father which art in heaven hallowed be thy name give us this day our daily bred forgive us our trespasses",,,,,,huh!oh!!!!,should we scratch out the "forgive us our trespasses" part of the model prayer???????????hmm the Christ said that in the model prayer we were to ask for forgiveness of our trespasses,,,,,,,,but a man said we sinned no more and he was incorrect,,,,,,,,,,,,,"hmm,,,,,,,,,,,,who do i believe a man or a Christ?????",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,hmmmm,,,,,,,,,,,,i think Christ wins on this one my friend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,