Understanding assurance of salvation

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wattie said:
Well, 'repent' is a 'change of mind, heart'.. not a behavioral reversal.

God repented of the work He done to Israel at one stage.. that was a change of mind.. not a behavioral turnaround. That was a definition of repent before the NT.

Then, in the NT.. it says you not saved by works, but the regeneration power of the Holy Spirit.

So repent in the NT is the change of mind, heart, by the power of the Holy Spirit.. not by a person's continual behaviour.
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hi wattie your quite right to mention this, we do have a will to change our mind and make choices.

I thank Christ for his works in changing my mind,

I'm a bit sad at the moment, listening to a brother almost in tears for the love of Christ in him.

But all tears will be wiped away
 
Jordon said:
Oh goodie so here's the true assurance part, of knowing you can have assurance.
If you watch the very important first sermon, which you would really need to watch in full time. I personally I feal it's worth it before starting this one.



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In this first video, seeking assurance, Sproul makes a couple of statements i would like you to run by you for clarification.

And before we get into this, is consider my self non denominational, if I had to choose, I would consider myself "pro" testant.

OK. In that first video, he states faith first, then justification. I'm on the same page with him on that. IMU, faith first is "a personally surrendered life first, being seen by the Father as just like Christ follows that, if other preconditions are met. But we're good on that one.

Then, he states that if your called, your one of the elect, and if your one of the elect, your automatically justified. And i think he eluded to the fact that all the called , and elect are justified and saved no matter what.

Am I understanding that correctly?
 
Watchman22 said:
In this first video, seeking assurance, Sproul makes a couple of statements i would like you to run by you for clarification.

And before we get into this, is consider my self non denominational, if I had to choose, I would consider myself "pro" testant.

OK. In that first video, he states faith first, then justification. I'm on the same page with him on that. IMU, faith first is "a personally surrendered life first, being seen by the Father as just like Christ follows that, if other preconditions are met. But we're good on that one.

Then, he states that if your called, your one of the elect, and if your one of the elect, your automatically justified. And i think he eluded to the fact that all the called , and elect are justified and saved no matter what.

Am I understanding that correctly?
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He speaks of all those who have been called have received a calling, in the same way as all those who don't get get called have also received the same calling. Hes making a direct link to order of salvation, that all are predestined to receive a calling, and all meaning all mankind, by his foreknowledge. all will know in there inner being through conscience there calling . But all are not justified is something he teaches.

He making a direct link between justification and assurance, for believers, 2 types of believers 1 who know they have assurance, and believers who have been unsure of being called and need assurance, who can find out they can have assurance.


He has other sermons where he teaches the regeneration could have took place 4 years before you where assured.
 
Jordon said:
He speaks of all those who have been called have received a calling, in the same way as all those who don't get get called have also received the same calling. Hes making a direct link to order of salvation, that all are predestined to receive a calling, and all meaning all mankind, by his foreknowledge. all will know in there inner being through conscience there calling . But all are not justified is something he teaches.

He making a direct link between justification and assurance, for believers, 2 types of believers 1 who know they have assurance, and believers who have been unsure of being called and need assurance, who can find out they can have assurance.


He has other sermons where he teaches the regeneration could have took place 4 years before you where assured.
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So he teaches that everyone is called out by the Father?
 
Jordon said:
he teaches everybody is predestined to receive a calling, the outer calling that becomes the inner calling that leads to becoming called
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Let me ask a different way.

I'm assuming he teaches not everyone is one of the elect?
If that's true, are those elect automatically saved, just because there the elect?
 
Watchman22 said:
Let me ask a different way.

I'm assuming he teaches not everyone is one of the elect?
If that's true, are those elect automatically saved, just because there the elect?
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this is a long old argument that leads to many rabbit trails, elect means to be saved which comes from a calling that is given to all mankind that all mankind is predestined to receive
 
Jordon said:
this is a long old argument that leads to many rabbit trails, elect means to be saved which comes from a calling that is given to all mankind that all mankind is predestined to receive
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Ya, I figured that much.
I'm just trying to understand what sproul teaches.
But everyone seems to get the call of the Father wrong.
The Greek is specific. The called out ones are a small group, called out from among a larger group that aren't called.
 
Watchman22 said:
Ya, I figured that much.
I'm just trying to understand what sproul teaches.
But everyone seems to get the call of the Father wrong.
The Greek is specific. The called out ones are a small group, called out from among a larger group that aren't called.
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it's important to know RC sproul has a degree in theology and philosophy and understands greek 🙂
 
Jordon said:
it's important to know RC sproul has a degree in theology and philosophy and understands greek 🙂
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I think your brave to put your instructor out there like that. I won't disrespect him with disagreements. Thanks for talking with me about him.
 
Watchman22 said:
I think your brave to put your instructor out there like that. I won't disrespect him with disagreements. Thanks for talking with me about him.
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I've a heard a few people mention him here but only since I've mentioned him.

But considering theres many churches that are definitely classed as reformed and many that are considered reformed,.the number of people would be well over 100 million peoples more like hundreds, out of all them there will be millions of people who know him well will have no problem sharing his wisdom,

I don't see that it brave, more like showing the truth that reformed is all about teaching you can have assurance your saved.

Which can only lead to being confident and lead to many more being saved
 
Jordon said:
I've a heard a few people mention him here but only since I've mentioned him.

But considering theres many churches that are definitely classed as reformed and many that are considered reformed,.the number of people would be well over 100 million peoples more like hundreds, out of all them there will be millions of people who know him well will have no problem sharing his wisdom,

I don't see that it brave, more like showing the truth that reformed is all about teaching you can have assurance your saved.

Which can only lead to being confident and lead to many more being saved
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I really hope that's true.
 
Watchman22 said:
I really hope that's true.
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it is true

It's really what the history of the reformed church stood for why the divide happened ie the reformation , because the Roman catholics taught people couldn't have definite assurance only there special saints.

But here on cc it's made to look the other way round, you always hear arguments aimed at the reformed only believe special people can be saved.

It's absolute madness what goes on here.
 
Jordon said:
it is true

It's really what the history of the reformed church stood for why the divide happened ie the reformation , because the Roman catholics taught people couldn't have definite assurance only there special saints.

But here on cc it's made to look the other way round, you always hear arguments aimed at the reformed only believe special people can be saved.

It's absolute madness what goes on here.
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You mind if I ask how old you are Jordan.
 
Jordon said:
32
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Thats what I would have guessed. That young 🔥 passion gives you away. Don't ever loose it.
Just keep in mind, none of us are 100% right all the time. But if we're all truly seeking Him, we are being called 100% of the time. And that could be a place to find common ground, a place to come together.
 
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Watchman22 said:
Thats what I would have guessed. That young 🔥 passion gives you away. Don't ever loose it.
Just keep in mind, none of us are 100% right all the time. But if we're all truly seeking Him, we are being called 100% of the time. And that could be a place to find common ground, a place to come together.
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yeah I know I'm still not completely sure of it I have some doubts to the irresistible grace part
 
The issue I'm having with irresistible grace is does choice come after grace takes a hold
 
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