Understanding God’s election

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studier

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Apr 18, 2024
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Rufus said:
But who is it that gives spiritual knowledge, wisdom and understanding? And what vitally important grace is absolutely necessary to bring God's chosen people to the place of true spiritual knowledge, wisdom and understanding? While the Lord God is the best TEACHER in universe, you conveniently overlook the fact that His students' HEARTS need to be made fit in order to receive His instruction, lest God be talking to a brick wall!
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No, I don't overlook what you allege. Just like I haven't said some of the things you allege. At this point it's just a side excursion to your thread to repeat some Truth I know you disagree with and watch you repeat your same arguments. We're all basically talking to brick walls on this thread, not unlike other ones, but this one may be the worst. I have seen a few times how you mention me in some obscure way, and I know it's because you miss me, so I say something here or there just to let you know I still love you, But I must tell you that cats are not my favorite pets. I picture you as naming them all "Elect" kind of like George Foreman named all his sons George.
 
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PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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Cameron143 said:
I also wonder what you make of 1 John 5:14.
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I agree with it. But it would be the negative inference fallacy to assume that this means that God never grants prayers that were not what He had had in mind before someone prayed, like Moses did, so he spared the Israelites. And like the Israelites demanding a king did, so he gave them Saul. Or like the Israelites demanding meat did, and he gave them quail.
 
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PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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GWH said:
It is human nature to be selfish, judgmental and argumentative (Gal. 5:19-21).
God draws/calls humans to repent of such sinfulness by providing seeking grace (1Tim. 2:3-4, Matt. 7:7, Tit. 2:11),
but Deut. 30:19 indicates the choice is binary and the blessing is conditional.
Rom. 2:29 indicates God's HS circumcises the hearts of those who choose to cooperate with/believe in God as Lord.
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To be accurate the text of Gal. 5:19-21 does not say it is human nature to be selfish, judgmental and argumentative. It says that these things are works of the flesh. Jesus had a human nature. The resurrected saints will have a human nature. But they will not need to be selfish, judgmental and argumentative to demonstrate they have a human nature. The works the flesh will do, if not reined in by the mind and spirit, are to be selfish, judgmental and argumentative. That is not to say these are traits of "a human nature".
 
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GWH

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Oct 19, 2024
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#11,945
Rufus said:
More lies! Where does Rom 2:29 say what you falsely claim? Where in the text is there anything about human choice?

Rom 2:29
29 No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.
NIV

And,

Deut 30:6
6 The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.
NIV

There are no conditions here. This is a unilateral promise that God will fulfill after Israel experiences the curses of the Law. The text itself and even the larger context of the chapter stipulate no prior conditions for the Jews to fulfill before God acts.


Recently I was reading from a daily devotional in which the author made a very interesting observation about a couple of chapters in Numbers on which he was meditating. Under the Old Covenant when God provided for the physical welfare of his chosen people in the wilderness, the Israelites constantly complained and grumbled against God; for they thought He wasn't doing enough for them! Therefore, they weren't getting enough of Him or enough of his goodness or grace. Then when we fast forward to the New Covenant era we have the exact opposite scenario among so many professing Christians: When confronted with the unconditional, unilateral promises of the NC, they complain that that's far too much all-sufficient Deity and Grace, and far too little human sufficiency! But in both cases with these covenants the cause is the same: Lack of Faith!

The Good Lord above just can't catch a break can He? And this isn't surprising since you don't have the Fear of the Lord in you -- by your own admission. You have NO reverential awe for God -- only for man's "freewill". This is what you worship!
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More obfuscation and indication of a divisive spirit or lack of love ("More Lies!").
The choice for Rom. 2:29 is indicated in 2:25-26 ("if"),
and the condition for Deut. 30:6 is in v. 19 ("choose").
 
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