Understanding the kingdom
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The Kingdom of God, is one of many names for the church, Christ's bride, the new Jerusalem, Zion, the church in the wilderness, and more.
15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:
‘The kingdom of this world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.’
16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshipped God, 17 saying:
‘We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18 The nations were angry,
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
both great and small –
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.’
19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm.
[Rev 11]
‘The kingdom of this world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.’
16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshipped God, 17 saying:
‘We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18 The nations were angry,
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
both great and small –
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.’
19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm.
[Rev 11]
There are aspects of MAD I agree with, I cannot though apply the earthly promise to church Jews only to ethnic Israel when they turn to the Lord.
Church Jews would include Abe, Ike and Jake onward.
God has promised that Israel would become the greatest nation on earth and Jerusalem the greatest city, that the Jews will rule the earth. These are the earth promises, the great Jewish hope.
But we are promised heaven as our dwelling place.
Again I would say to MAD believers that we's still kingdom saints, we will rule with Christ from heaven [during the 1, 000 years] The Jews will reign with Christ on earth, from Jerusalem.
I understand you are speaking from the perspective of Dispensationalism.
But what do you mean by "Church Jews" and "ethnic Israel"?
By church Jews I mean OT and NT saints, ethnic Israel or the seed of Abraham are the nation that now is which is yet to be converted and will be in God's time.
Is Paul a NT saint or ethnic Israel?
If someone with Jewish heritage living in Jerusalem finds Christ in their lifetime, are they a NT saint or ethnic Israel?
Do generational Christians living in Jerusalem not count as ethnic Israel?
The "Church Jew" vs. "ethnic Israel" seems to have people that would belong to both categories. Where would they go in Dispensationalism?
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persistent
Guest
P
persistent
Guest
The way you state it is the way I am also coming to believe. Acts 15:15 seems to indicate this.
it's not complex Jews are Jews, Christians are Christian whether Jew or Gentile.
... ' s some Gentiles who are not church
"And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:" - Acts 15:13-16 KJV
"The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner." - Psalm 118:22 KJV
"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner," - 1 Peter 2:5-7 KJV
"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." - Eph 2:19-22 KJV
"Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart." - 2 Cor 3:3 KJV
Acts 15 presumably isn't talking about an earthly physical structure. James was commenting on Simeon's observation about God visiting the Gentiles to take out a people for his name. If James' response was talking about a physical earthly place, this would make no sense.
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persistent
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If I'm understanding this correctly, you are saying:
1) "Church Jew" means "Christian with Jewish heritage", and;
2) "ethnic Jew" means "non-Christian with Jewish heritage"
And that the Dispensationalist promise for land only applies to those with Jewish heritage that are non-Christian?
op: kingdom Differences? Church [assemblies] Differences?
As M.A.D. (Mid-Acts Dispensationalist) pastor Adams has well
contrasted *:
"BLESSING THROUGH ISRAEL’S RISE is promised the Gentiles
in the Old Testament through early Acts. Isaiah prophesied that
Israel will be given supremacy over the nations (Isa. 60:10-12; 61:6).
From that position of priority Israel shall be a blessing to all the
nations of the earth (Gen. 22:17,18; Zech. 8:13; Acts 3:25,26). The
prophet further states that “the Lord shall arise upon thee [Israel].”..."
Thus, at the "prophesied" first resurrection, all the earthly
kingdom saints [Israel OT + Jewish proselytes through Jewish
believers in Acts 21:20 / 28:28 + TOJT (Time Of Jacob's Trouble)
martyrs] will be resurrected to enter the 1000-year Millennial
kingdom, on the earth!
"...Then “the Gentiles shall come to thy [Israel’s] light, and...rising”
(Isa. 60:1-3). Jerusalem and the Jews will be the route whereby
the [earthly] nations come to God (Zech. 8:22,23). The Gospels
confirm these [earthly] prophecies (Mark 7:27; 11:17; etc.)."
Earthly Prophecy, made known since the foundation of the world
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)
Heavenly Mystery, Unknown, Hid in God From Before the foundation
of the world, Until "Revealed Unto Paul," for us, as individuals:
"BLESSING THROUGH ISRAEL’S FALL, apart from Israel, is presently
God’s program. Now “there is no difference between” Jew and
Gentile before God (Rom. 10:12). The Jews rejected the Word of God
Paul preached so “the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles”
(Acts 13:45-47; 28:25-28). It is through Israel’s “unbelief,” “blindness,”
“casting away”; “through their fall salvation is come unto the
Gentiles” (Rom. 11:11-15,25,30)." [D Adams]
Thus, at the "UNprophesied" Mystery [NO "Jew Nor Gentile"
Body Of Christ, God (starting M.A.D. Grace, with Paul, And Ending
With] "Catching Up") Departure/resurrection/glorification, All
"The Body" Will Go To The Heavenly Kingdom.
Conclusion: Any man with earthly "ethnicity" today, Upon "belief
in The Gospel Of Grace," would then be "translated Into The Body
Of Christ, spiritually Into the Heavenly Kingdom (Col 1:12-14),
thus losing the earthly status, and Gaining The Heavenly One,
Correct?
* see also:
Bible Contrasts I
+
Bible Contrasts II
Grace Peace, And JOY, in Christ, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!
As M.A.D. (Mid-Acts Dispensationalist) pastor Adams has well
contrasted *:
"BLESSING THROUGH ISRAEL’S RISE is promised the Gentiles
in the Old Testament through early Acts. Isaiah prophesied that
Israel will be given supremacy over the nations (Isa. 60:10-12; 61:6).
From that position of priority Israel shall be a blessing to all the
nations of the earth (Gen. 22:17,18; Zech. 8:13; Acts 3:25,26). The
prophet further states that “the Lord shall arise upon thee [Israel].”..."
Thus, at the "prophesied" first resurrection, all the earthly
kingdom saints [Israel OT + Jewish proselytes through Jewish
believers in Acts 21:20 / 28:28 + TOJT (Time Of Jacob's Trouble)
martyrs] will be resurrected to enter the 1000-year Millennial
kingdom, on the earth!
"...Then “the Gentiles shall come to thy [Israel’s] light, and...rising”
(Isa. 60:1-3). Jerusalem and the Jews will be the route whereby
the [earthly] nations come to God (Zech. 8:22,23). The Gospels
confirm these [earthly] prophecies (Mark 7:27; 11:17; etc.)."
Earthly Prophecy, made known since the foundation of the world
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)
Heavenly Mystery, Unknown, Hid in God From Before the foundation
of the world, Until "Revealed Unto Paul," for us, as individuals:
"BLESSING THROUGH ISRAEL’S FALL, apart from Israel, is presently
God’s program. Now “there is no difference between” Jew and
Gentile before God (Rom. 10:12). The Jews rejected the Word of God
Paul preached so “the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles”
(Acts 13:45-47; 28:25-28). It is through Israel’s “unbelief,” “blindness,”
“casting away”; “through their fall salvation is come unto the
Gentiles” (Rom. 11:11-15,25,30)." [D Adams]
Thus, at the "UNprophesied" Mystery [NO "Jew Nor Gentile"
Body Of Christ, God (starting M.A.D. Grace, with Paul, And Ending
With] "Catching Up") Departure/resurrection/glorification, All
"The Body" Will Go To The Heavenly Kingdom.
Conclusion: Any man with earthly "ethnicity" today, Upon "belief
in The Gospel Of Grace," would then be "translated Into The Body
Of Christ, spiritually Into the Heavenly Kingdom (Col 1:12-14),
thus losing the earthly status, and Gaining The Heavenly One,
Correct?
* see also:
Bible Contrasts I
+
Bible Contrasts II
Grace Peace, And JOY, in Christ, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!
God made Heaven for Jew and Gentile alike. He died for all and desires all to be His Bride.
Galatians 3:28
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Romans 10:12
“For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.”
Galatians 3:28
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Romans 10:12
“For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.”
Amen
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
Romans 1:16
to the Jew first
“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
Mark 1:14-15
and then the same gospel to the gentile
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
Many peoples both Jew and gentiles would become One fold following one shepherd
“And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”
John 10:16
the gentiles would be added to the fold two people made one for one kingdom first preached to Jew and then to gentile by those who believed
“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby
: and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, ( gentile )
and to them that were nigh.( Jew )
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;”
Ephesians 2:11-20
The gospel never changed the audience for the gospel was expanded everyone is the same to Christ Jew or gentile
The truth of the matter is that the eternal Kingdom of God is to be established on earth, and the Church will have a part in the administration and affairs of that Kingdom.
At the same time the eternal home of the saints is in the New Jerusalem. So there will definitely be travel back and forth between the heavenly city New Jerusalem (which will give light to the earth as a heavenly body) and redeemed and restored Jerusalem on earth. We do not have all the details, but we know that the saints will be "kings" and "priests". Therefore the King of kings will have many rulers under him, and Christians will have serious responsibilities over their spheres of influence on earth. Possibly on other planets since the Bible says that God made "the worlds" (plural).
Something which many Christians resist is the FACT that God will redeem and restore Israel on earth. Hence Replacement Theology. But each of the twelve tribes will have their portions of land in "Greater Israel", while the twelve apostles of the Lamb will have twelve thrones while ruling the twelve tribes of Israel.
Actually the throne of David will be restored to David, who will be prince over Israel under Christ. All of this is found in the prophecy of Ezekiel. And all the nations surrounding Israel will be saved nations, which will acknowledge the primacy of Israel on earth. But the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles until the Rapture) will have mansions in the New Jerusalem, and will dwell with God and Christ eternally. After all the Church is "the Lamb's Wife".
In what ways do you think the situations will differ between the Millenium and later (the Final State) when New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven?