Understanding

[wattie]

The sinners prayer I have heard from many people on here that it isn't really how someone is saved.

I am trying to understand what they mean, because I haven't had it fully explained why this isn't how someone is saved.

Roman's 10 shows someone confessing their sin to be saved.. and I equate this with the sinners prayer.

Believing on the Lord Jesus in the book of John.. I equate with the sinners prayer.

I get that it's not repeating words from someone else to speak back to them.

I get that it is God convicting, and without the conviction it means little.

But I dont get how someone praying under conviction to receive Christ is not salvation.

 

[Artios1]

I didn't know what it was ....I had to look it up.
To me ...that seems to almost equate to Rom 10:9 &10...
I believe it is what comes from the heart that matters to God.... not the specific words we use.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Hey wattie.

For me, probably the biggest issue with the sinner's prayer is it's a gross oversimplification. Very often those who rely on the sinner's prayer rely on it almost entirely. You get them to say the prayer and it's another job well-done, on to the next one. Let me give you an example. There's a homeless mission I used to attend chapel services at very frequently. Of course at the end they'd go through the whole song and dance and as a matter of course a few people got "saved." However, they had baptisms usually twice a year when they'd invite all the guys who previously got "saved" to get baptized. But that's not the Way. A person who is sincere and has repented and called on the Lord for forgiveness should be baptized as soon as possible. Not teaching this gives a person a false sense that they've done all that really needs to be done. New converts should be taught the whole gospel right from the start.

Something else I find a little troubling is how they use emotional manipulation to get people down front. First, there's always some kind of relaxing music playing in the background. Then they go through their whole speal about how you may not have another chance. You may walk out that door and die tonight. True enough, but in my experience this is one of the worst reasons for a person to come forward. Then they say something like: "With every head bowed and every eye closed, if you would like to accept Jesus as your Lord and savior just repeat this simple prayer (the sinner's prayer). Now, "If you said that prayer just slip you hand up. Yes, I see that one and another one, thank you." Then comes: "If you prayed that prayer I'm going to ask you to stand right where you are. Don't worry about what anyone might think." Then after they stand up it's time for the final step: "Now I'm going to ask you to have the courage to come down front and get a copy of this little booklet, 'First Steps on Your New Life' (or some such thing)."

It seems to me like the sinner's prayer is relied on too heavily and creates false converts.

 

[EternalFire]

The sinners prayer I have heard from many people on here that it isn't really how someone is saved.

I am trying to understand what they mean, because I haven't had it fully explained why this isn't how someone is saved.

Roman's 10 shows someone confessing their sin to be saved.. and I equate this with the sinners prayer.

Believing on the Lord Jesus in the book of John.. I equate with the sinners prayer.

I get that it's not repeating words from someone else to speak back to them.

I get that it is God convicting, and without the conviction it means little.

But I dont get how someone praying under conviction to receive Christ is not salvation.

These are some great concerns that you are raising, and they are of massive importance.

Essentially, salvation has been “cheapened” to the point that people are led astray to believe that they have been made right with God apart from any obedience to the necessary actions Jesus communicated to us, such as “counting the cost, denying yourself daily, taking up your cross, etc.”

In the video linked here, Brother Kel addresses what you have written and explains what I’m conveying above.

 

[tourist]

The sinners prayer I have heard from many people on here that it isn't really how someone is saved.

I am trying to understand what they mean, because I haven't had it fully explained why this isn't how someone is saved.

Roman's 10 shows someone confessing their sin to be saved.. and I equate this with the sinners prayer.

Believing on the Lord Jesus in the book of John.. I equate with the sinners prayer.

I get that it's not repeating words from someone else to speak back to them.

I get that it is God convicting, and without the conviction it means little.

But I dont get how someone praying under conviction to receive Christ is not salvation.

Seems to me, praying under conviction to receive Christ results in salvation.

 

[Nehemiah6]

But I dont get how someone praying under conviction to receive Christ is not salvation.

The attacks on the sinner's prayer come primarily from Calvinists (possibly because of their warped theology). But you are correct. Every sinner must receive Christ by faith, and "Lord be merciful to me a sinner" is embedded in Scripture.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It seems to me like the sinner's prayer is relied on too heavily and creates false converts.

If the full and true Gospel is not preached first, and if there is no proper follow through to ensure that the person did not make a false profession, then you are right. If there is no repentance and faith then that could simply be an empty prayer.

 

[SomeDisciple]

It's the difference between a "one and done" salvation, and a "continuous walk with god" salvation.

Some people think that if you ever believe, even for one millisecond, then God will forcibly conform you to the image of his son. And if you aren't conformed, then "you never really did believe".

Some people think you have to believe continuously- and to continuously believe is to continuously let God conform you to the image of his son, through chastisement and discipleship.

I'm really not a huge fan of "cultural christianity" where you got saved when you were 10, and then never thought of Jesus again, except for at Christmas time.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

The rule of the so-called sinners prayer, to me seems akin to.... repeat after me, say these magic words, and snap, there you are. It's mainly the stuff of magicians.

I'm not saying that God will turn His back on anyone saying this prayer, and ignore their plea out of hand. But God looks at the heart of man, to see if that matches the words. I grew up in a man-derived religion that relies on repeating the same prayer over and over again, and the weightiness of that supposedly will impress God.... It won't. Indeed, there is a warning about that in the Bible.

'So therefore repent, turn away from sinfulness and towards righteous behaviour, and be baptised in the Lord Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will have that as well as receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. That promise is to you and all those in the now and yet to be, that do the same.'

I became a Christian, received the gift of faith in Jesus, during my reading of the New Testament of the Bible for the first time. I was home, alone, no other person around, and no one to baptise me. I spoke no specific prayer, it was more that over time God had been leading me to His Son, and Himself, through experiences and a word of knowledge to me here and there, and eventually to hear His words in the Bible. I just simply, believed!

There are many varied experiences for conversion to faith in Jesus, but there is only one faith.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The sinners prayer I have heard from many people on here that it isn't really how someone is saved.

I am trying to understand what they mean, because I haven't had it fully explained why this isn't how someone is saved.

Roman's 10 shows someone confessing their sin to be saved.. and I equate this with the sinners prayer.

Believing on the Lord Jesus in the book of John.. I equate with the sinners prayer.

I get that it's not repeating words from someone else to speak back to them.

I get that it is God convicting, and without the conviction it means little.

But I dont get how someone praying under conviction to receive Christ is not salvation.

Here’s a biblical sinners prayer that roots the New Testament

“Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee. Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.

O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise. For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭51:1-17‬ ‭KJV‬

remember the mercies of David the repentant sinner

“Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭55:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[studentoftheword]

If one feels they have to pray a prayer to receive Salvation ---then that is Works not Grace -----Salvation is by Grace through Faith in Jesus---not a prayer -----the Scripture clearly says ----IF YOU CONFESS with your mouth and BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART ------you will be saved -----


Romans 10:9

Context
The Word Brings Salvation
…8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:

9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.…

 

[ResidentAlien]

If one feels they have to pray a prayer to receive Salvation ---then that is Works not Grace -----Salvation is by Grace through Faith in Jesus---not a prayer -----the Scripture clearly says ----IF YOU CONFESS with your mouth and BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART ------you will be saved -----


Romans 10:9

Context
The Word Brings Salvation
…8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:

9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.…

" 'And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.' "—Acts 2:21

"And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord."—Acts 22:16

"For whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."—Romans 10:13

There's not one simple formula, which is what the sinner's prayer has become; calling on the Lord is part of it. There's faith, confession, repentance, calling on the Lord, baptism, walking in obedience. It has to come from the heart, not parroting words someone else tells you to say.

 

[Gardenias]

2 Cor.7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to SALVATION not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

No prayer is of worth if the person wants to just guick fix it to feel better. You see yourself as God does with all the filth and sin of the world covering you.

It's been expounded out of Romans the need to CONFESS with the mouth the Lordship of Jesus,( surrender) and BELIEVE in your heart.

I don't practice having someone repeat aka the sinners prayer, but I see no harm in it either.

It's PERSONAL, on that person to have godly sorrow and then when forgiveness comes walk in the light of God's word to be fashioned by the Spirit into the image of God's son.
The ONLY one who walked in perfection in the father's will.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If one feels they have to pray a prayer to receive Salvation ---then that is Works not Grace -----Salvation is by Grace through Faith in Jesus---not a prayer -----the Scripture clearly says ----IF YOU CONFESS with your mouth and BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART ------you will be saved -----


Romans 10:9

Context
The Word Brings Salvation
…8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:

9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.…

so now prayer is a work not needed ? This no works stuff goes to the extreme on here wow

 

[Pilgrimshope]

2 Cor.7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to SALVATION not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

No prayer is of worth if the person wants to just guick fix it to feel better. You see yourself as God does with all the filth and sin of the world covering you.

It's been expounded out of Romans the need to CONFESS with the mouth the Lordship of Jesus,( surrender) and BELIEVE in your heart.

I don't practice having someone repeat aka the sinners prayer, but I see no harm in it either.

It's PERSONAL, on that person to have godly sorrow and then when forgiveness comes walk in the light of God's word to be fashioned by the Spirit into the image of God's son.
The ONLY one who walked in perfection in the father's will.

amen sooooo personal . So personal infact he tells us to go off alone and talk with him when we do to pray in secret and he will reward that

prayer is a child of God speaking with thier heavenly father . I remember when I was a kid I wanted to please my dad he was my hero. He was always fair but if I got out of line he was also stern.

I learned from him alot about life and in the end I look back and understand him so much more. When i disappointed my dad it really bothered me and if I did wrong I would always turn to him sometimes it took awhile but my heart always lead me to talk to him about what I’d done

if I had done wrong somehow to him it hurt my heart later when I wasn’t mad or sad or whatever when I came to
My senses it always really left a stitch in my heart when I did wrong and displeased him

what I found out was he was the best man I’ve ever known. He always forgave me even if there was some punishment involved in ever doubted his love for me. I always knew after awhile of doing that that I could go to him and he would love me and set me on my feet again

he would restore that stitch in my heart he would explain things from his wisdom to me and if needed he would administer whatever punishment was due to me. But I always knew I could go to him because he loved me I could be honest with him even when I had done wrong

I knew it in my heart he loves me and he’ll make it right

 

[Gardenias]

amen sooooo personal . So personal infact he tells us to go off alone and talk with him when we do to pray in secret and he will reward that

prayer is a child of God speaking with thier heavenly father . I remember when I was a kid I wanted to please my dad he was my hero. He was always fair but if I got out of line he was also stern.

I learned from him alot about life and in the end I look back and understand him so much more. When i disappointed my dad it really bothered me and if I did wrong I would always turn to him sometimes it took awhile but my heart always lead me to talk to him about what I’d done

if I had done wrong somehow to him it hurt my heart later when I wasn’t mad or sad or whatever when I came to
My senses it always really left a stitch in my heart when I did wrong and displeased him

what I found out was he was the best man I’ve ever known. He always forgave me even if there was some punishment involved in ever doubted his love for me. I always knew after awhile of doing that that I could go to him and he would love me and set me on my feet again

he would restore that stitch in my heart he would explain things from his wisdom to me and if needed he would administer whatever punishment was due to me. But I always knew I could go to him because he loved me I could be honest with him even when I had done wrong

I knew it in my heart he loves me and he’ll make it right

This deserves a bigger heart.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This deserves a bigger heart.

Haha well thanks thump thump thump !!!

 

[wattie]

These are some great concerns that you are raising, and they are of massive importance.

Essentially, salvation has been “cheapened” to the point that people are led astray to believe that they have been made right with God apart from any obedience to the necessary actions Jesus communicated to us, such as “counting the cost, denying yourself daily, taking up your cross, etc.”

In the video linked here, Brother Kel addresses what you have written and explains what I’m conveying above.

I understand there is going to be fruit from someone being indwelt by the Holy Spirit. But there is a big difference between 'the faith ' eg... daily prayer, continual faithfulness, bible reading daily etc.. and initial belief in Christ.

Some one may go on to be faithful, but not always. Doesn't mean the initial conversion didnt happen.

 

[wattie]

If one feels they have to pray a prayer to receive Salvation ---then that is Works not Grace -----Salvation is by Grace through Faith in Jesus---not a prayer -----the Scripture clearly says ----IF YOU CONFESS with your mouth and BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART ------you will be saved -----


Romans 10:9

Context
The Word Brings Salvation
…8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:

9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.…

Yes, so these scriptures could easily apply to a sinners prayer.

Again. ..praying under conviction to receive Christ.. its the same thing put in different terms.

 

[JStates]

"Are your legs tired?" "Yes."
"Is that a chair over there?" "Yes."
"Do you think that chair would hold your weight?" "Sure."
"Could you physically go over there and sit in that chair?" "Yes."

^ mental assent to facts

"But will you go over and sit in that chair?"

^ salvation question