University level arguments of Christian vs atheist and others

[persistent]

The Bible says the natural mind finds things of the spirit to be foolish.
Perhaps that's an answer?

Doesn't seem to address the heart as referred to in these scriptures and are possibly what Lennox is referring to.
Lennox states, "There is a moral rebellion in the human heart against God", at 7min & 45-55 secs.

Does Lennox's statement correlate with Jeremiah 17:9 ¶ The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

1 Corinthians 2:13-15

Doesn't seem to address the heart as referred to in these scriptures and are possibly what Lennox is referring to.
Lennox states, "There is a moral rebellion in the human heart against God", at 7min & 45-55 secs.

Does Lennox's statement correlate with Jeremiah 17:9 ¶ The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Note that in this quote there is the fact those who were given to believe lies had chosen evil in place of good.

Doesn't seem to address the heart as referred to in these scriptures and are possibly what Lennox is referring to.
Lennox states, "There is a moral rebellion in the human heart against God", at 7min & 45-55 secs.

Does Lennox's statement correlate with Jeremiah 17:9 ¶ The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

 

[Cameron143]

Doesn't seem to address the heart as referred to in these scriptures and are possibly what Lennox is referring to.
Lennox states, "There is a moral rebellion in the human heart against God", at 7min & 45-55 secs.

Does Lennox's statement correlate with Jeremiah 17:9 ¶ The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Doesn't seem to address the heart as referred to in these scriptures and are possibly what Lennox is referring to.
Lennox states, "There is a moral rebellion in the human heart against God", at 7min & 45-55 secs.

Does Lennox's statement correlate with Jeremiah 17:9 ¶ The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Doesn't seem to address the heart as referred to in these scriptures and are possibly what Lennox is referring to.
Lennox states, "There is a moral rebellion in the human heart against God", at 7min & 45-55 secs.

Does Lennox's statement correlate with Jeremiah 17:9 ¶ The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Sure. I was just answering your question as to where the verses were found. Jeremiah 17:9 explains well the natural heart and the reason salvation is spoken of in terms of taking out the heart of stone and giving a heart of flesh.

 

[persistent]

Sure. I was just answering your question as to where the verses were found. Jeremiah 17:9 explains well the natural heart.

Do you see that Lennox is likely referring to Jeremiah. You could fast forward on the video to hear him yourself if you haven't done so.

 

[Cameron143]

Do you see that Lennox is likely referring to Jeremiah. You could fast forward on the video to hear him yourself if you haven't done so.

I don't doubt your assessment. Lennox is a very well spoken man and I have heard him on occasion. I didn't listen to the particular video you posted but your posts seem consistent with what I have heard him say elsewhere.

 

[persistent]

I don't doubt your assessment. Lennox is a very well spoken man and I have heard him on occasion. I didn't listen to the particular video you posted but your posts seem consistent with what I have heard him say elsewhere.

What I don't yet understand about his message is whether he is trying to first appeal to the heart or to the mind and I read thru the verses here and ask myself was it the heart or the mind that first attracted me to even consider looking into any religious matter?

I get the impression that for some, born into families of Christians, this would never cross their mind, as they grew up learning the Bible. It is very nice to hear Lennox's testimony on this. Lennox sure seems to develop rapport with his audiences. I only learned of him very recently and sorry to see that due to his age he may not be around much longer. Is there anyone else like him that you are aware of? Also surprising is his professional background as a mathematician. Makes me ask, did Charles Dodgson, aka Lewis Carrol, try to intervene in debate like Lennox. Need to google that.

 

[Runningman]

Do you suspect that some are under a great delusion as I believe that there is scripture which says this. Search gives this verse which may apply.>>>>2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Perhaps it’s similar to these verses:

Ephesians 2:1,2
1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience.

 

[Cameron143]

What I don't yet understand about his message is whether he is trying to first appeal to the heart or to the mind and I read thru the verses here and ask myself was it the heart or the mind that first attracted me to even consider looking into any religious matter?

I get the impression that for some, born into families of Christians, this would never cross their mind, as they grew up learning the Bible. It is very nice to hear Lennox's testimony on this. Lennox sure seems to develop rapport with his audiences. I only learned of him very recently and sorry to see that due to his age he may not be around much longer. Is there anyone else like him that you are aware of? Also surprising is his professional background as a mathematician. Makes me ask, did Charles Dodgson, aka Lewis Carrol, try to intervene in debate like Lennox. Need to google that.

Acts 2 is helpful with your question. When they heard they were pricked in the heart and said...
The gospel appeals to the mind, affects the heart, and compels the will. The whole person responds to the gospel in salvation.

 

[persistent]

Acts 2 is helpful with your question. When they heard they were pricked in the heart and said...
The gospel appeals to the mind, affects the heart, and compels the will. The whole person responds to the gospel in salvation.

Seems that at times the Bible itself does not have the references to modern day situations but my guess if anything in the Bible would relate to Lennox teaching it would be Paul's testimony at Mars Hill.

 

[Cameron143]

Seems that at times the Bible itself does not have the references to modern day situations but my guess if anything in the Bible would relate to Lennox teaching it would be Paul's testimony at Mars Hill.

I'm at a bit of a loss not having watched the video. I do believe that the bible does speak to every situation in every time as there is nothing new under the sun. Finding the particular truth and making the proper application can be tricky but I do believe the Spirit will lead us into all truth.
Sorry I'm not more helpful to you.

 

[Papermonkey]

Doesn't seem to address the heart as referred to in these scriptures and are possibly what Lennox is referring to.
Lennox states, "There is a moral rebellion in the human heart against God", at 7min & 45-55 secs.

Does Lennox's statement correlate with Jeremiah 17:9 ¶ The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Doesn't seem to address the heart as referred to in these scriptures and are possibly what Lennox is referring to.
Lennox states, "There is a moral rebellion in the human heart against God", at 7min & 45-55 secs.

Does Lennox's statement correlate with Jeremiah 17:9 ¶ The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Doesn't seem to address the heart as referred to in these scriptures and are possibly what Lennox is referring to.
Lennox states, "There is a moral rebellion in the human heart against God", at 7min & 45-55 secs.

Does Lennox's statement correlate with Jeremiah 17:9 ¶ The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

1 Corinthians 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

 

[Papermonkey]

What scripture would that be?

It is found in 1st Corinthians 2.

 

[Magenta]

1 Corinthians 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers
them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14

 

[Papermonkey]

1 Corinthians 2:14

Beautiful.

 

[persistent]

1 Corinthians 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

You likely didn't look at the video and that is ok but your response is not clear as to whom you would think it applies since the video shows that Lennox is in a studio setting it is not evident who his audience, if any, is.

There are other posts on this thread one of Lennox at a university in Norway which gives some sense of the audiences reaction to his message but still not clear as to whether the audience is able to 'discern' if that is who you may be thinking 1 Cor. 2:14 is applied to. Not saying it isn't beyond the possible as how and where the Holy Spirit works is a mystery it seems.

Lennox is very sensitive to his audience in that video, in Norway, and it is possible the Holy Spirit or angels are right there guiding the proceedings.

 

[oyster67]

Lennox states, "There is a moral rebellion in the human heart against God", at 7min & 45-55 secs.

Does Lennox's statement correlate with Jeremiah 17:9 ¶ The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Is this for all people?

Are Christians hearts immune or susceptible to either Jeremiah's recorded statement or Lennox's statement?

I haven't watched your viddy yet, but my go-to Scripture concerning man's post-fall heart and accountability to God is Romans 1.
Romans 1:
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[Papermonkey]

You likely didn't look at the video and that is ok but your response is not clear as to whom you would think it applies since the video shows that Lennox is in a studio setting it is not evident who his audience, if any, is.

There are other posts on this thread one of Lennox at a university in Norway which gives some sense of the audiences reaction to his message but still not clear as to whether the audience is able to 'discern' if that is who you may be thinking 1 Cor. 2:14 is applied to. Not saying it isn't beyond the possible as how and where the Holy Spirit works is a mystery it seems.

Lennox is very sensitive to his audience in that video, in Norway, and it is possible the Holy Spirit or angels are right there guiding the proceedings.

I believe the Corinthians verse applies to all who are not yet redeemed by grace.

 

[oyster67]

The video is a Christian mathematicians views countering prevailing secularistic views and 'world' views regarding Bible principles and God.

How I Found My Christian Faith - John Lennox

Hey! That's be me Uncle Johnny!

Great video, and only 10 min.

 

[Eli1]

The 'theory' or 'paradigm' or whatever the intellectuals call it is one of the ideas that is possibly still prevalent at college level and John Lennox teaches against in his attempt to bring God of the Christian Bible teaching back into schools. NOTICE!!!!!! this type of teaching that Lennox is trying to displace is atheistic.
God of the gaps
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about a philosophical argument. For the "gap" interpretation of the biblical creation account, see Gap creationism.
Part of a series onAtheism

Arguments for atheism
Against God's existence

• Atheist's wager
• Evil God Challenge
• Fate of the unlearned
• Free will
• God of the gaps
• Hitchens's razor
• Incompatible properties
• Inconsistent revelation
• Nonbelief
• Omnipotence paradox
• Poor design
• Problem of evil
• Problem of Hell
• Russell's teapot
• Theological noncognitivism
• Ultimate Boeing 747 gambit

"God of the gaps" is a theological perspective in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence.

IF THE ABOVE WIKI ENTRANCE MAY SEEM TO SOME THAT THIS HAS SOME SENSE OF KEEPING GOD IN THE PICTURE. THEY WOULD BE WRONG WRONG WRONG.
Listen to Lennox videos to hear how this 'God of the gaps' 'proposition' has been used to push God out of the picture.

Hello.
Why do I as a believer need to listen to the guy in the video to learn how God has been pushed out of the picture in today’s world?
What would I gain if I listened to the guy in the video? Will it be time well-spent or minutes which i’ll never get back for something that I (and I assume most other Christians) already know?

 

[oyster67]

This is "Devil U", the university of Arizona.

The key is for believers in Jesus Christ to reach these young adults before they are further influenced by the devil's own. The religion and philosophy departments as many liberal arts will do everything they can to drive the faith out of the students.
Below is a miracle. This preacher is invited to teach an entire class every semester in the religious studies course. There's hope for them at this point, but much less after 4 years. Once they graduate to a Bible mocking atheist like many university professors of philosophy, there is small chance of convincing them. There are parents and grandparents reading this right now who know they should share this video with those kids who visit on the holidays. I hope this will be a blessing to them too.

The man starts well but ends up telling the children that they can live a sinful lifestyle after they are saved and still go to Heaven. People need to hear the Gospel, not Baptist OSAS false doctrine.

Hebrews 6:4-6
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,”
“And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,”
“If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”

Hebrews 6:8
“But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”

 

[Cameron143]

Hello.
Why do I as a believer need to listen to the guy in the video to learn how God has been pushed out of the picture in today’s world?
What would I gain if I listened to the guy in the video? Will it be time well-spent or minutes which i’ll never get back for something that I (and I assume most other Christians) already know?

Hey Bob, we've got another free thinker. Some guy named Eli in Boston. Yep...send a team.