Unmerited Favor..... Has the definition changed? Who changed it?
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I agree! Notice the last verse stresses what they have turned TOWARD!
[11] For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
They have turned to carefulness, clearing of themselves, indignation, zeal... Repentance is two parts, turning away from sin, and turning toward truth. The issue is that while many are turning from sin, they are not turning toward truth. Thus they are still in bondage because the truth sets us free.
That's why we must teach both parts, who they are not, and who they are. Or as Scripture calls it renewing the mind.
QUOTE=crossnote;2695791]A new testament example of repentance...
1 Corinthians 5:1-5 KJVS
[1] It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. [2] And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. [3] For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, [4] In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, [5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Apparently the individual turned and was restored..
2 Corinthians 7:8-11 KJVS
[8] For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. [9] Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. [10] For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. [11] For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.[/QUOTE]
[11] For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
They have turned to carefulness, clearing of themselves, indignation, zeal... Repentance is two parts, turning away from sin, and turning toward truth. The issue is that while many are turning from sin, they are not turning toward truth. Thus they are still in bondage because the truth sets us free.
That's why we must teach both parts, who they are not, and who they are. Or as Scripture calls it renewing the mind.
QUOTE=crossnote;2695791]A new testament example of repentance...
1 Corinthians 5:1-5 KJVS
[1] It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. [2] And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. [3] For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, [4] In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, [5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Apparently the individual turned and was restored..
2 Corinthians 7:8-11 KJVS
[8] For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. [9] Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. [10] For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. [11] For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.[/QUOTE]
R
We sin more than we know. Speaking ruffly to our children or spouse. Telling some one "I'll pray about it" . Just believe in what I say. What is the definition of sin? The only answer I can see is disobedience to His word or the Holy Spirit. If you knock clothes off the rack at Walmart and don't pick them up, that is sin. We look at vice as the only means of sin. But when we dis somebody or say that they are awful bless His heart. we are sinning, we are in a body of sin and sin all the time whether we know it or not. That's why Paul would say who shall deliver me from this body of sin, I thank God for Jesus Christ. In this flesh body you will sin, no way around it, you will sin. Which is why we need the Cross more than anything else. Prayer shawls won't help you, speaking Hebrew won't help you, blowing Shofars will not help you, Cutting the the grass at church will not help you, singing in the choir will not help you, going on mission trips will not help you, preaching the gospel will not help you. Forty days of purpose will not help you, fasting for 21 days will not help you We must have faith in what Jesus did at the cross and realize that we cannot do it of our own accord, it is the only thing that helps.
I believe it's Scripture my friend. How do you believe John would answer you?
1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
John says I am writing to you so you will not sin, but IF you do, Not when you do, you have an Advocate.
Why can John say that? Because we are in Christ.
1 John 3:1See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
1 Chapter later, same book, same author.
C.
1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
John says I am writing to you so you will not sin, but IF you do, Not when you do, you have an Advocate.
Why can John say that? Because we are in Christ.
1 John 3:1See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
1 Chapter later, same book, same author.
C.
I was referring to the one caught in relationship with his father's wife. Either way, repentance came about. Was it not the work of the Holy Spirit convicting of sin which brought about repentance. That's the whole point of Prince;s denial that the Holy Spirit does not convict the believer of sin. you denied David's example but admitted 1 and 2Cor. example.
."The Holy Spirit does not convict the believer of sin, but of His righteousness in Christ." --a lie of Prince
[/QUOTE]
."The Holy Spirit does not convict the believer of sin, but of His righteousness in Christ." --a lie of Prince
[/QUOTE]
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The answer to the heresy and theology put forward under hyper-grace is to say it is from malice, slander, is lies.
Now listen carefully. If the teaching is as described and this teaching is against simple christian teaching from Jesus and the Apostles, it is literally slander and lies to say these points are lies and slander when they are 100% true.
Now if you as a reader truly are a sheep following Christ as your Lord, you will read the points being made, pray and seek Gods face and He will show you the spiritual reality. This is a kingdom issue, our souls are being questioned here and where you stand. Beware wolves in sheeps clothing.
Now listen carefully. If the teaching is as described and this teaching is against simple christian teaching from Jesus and the Apostles, it is literally slander and lies to say these points are lies and slander when they are 100% true.
Now if you as a reader truly are a sheep following Christ as your Lord, you will read the points being made, pray and seek Gods face and He will show you the spiritual reality. This is a kingdom issue, our souls are being questioned here and where you stand. Beware wolves in sheeps clothing.
I almost forgot..... I have some more facts on Joseph Prince:
3. 2 Corinthians 8:9 (KJV)
9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
Prince teaches material wealth thru this verse, even though it specifically means spiritual riches, such as peace, salvation, joy, eternal life, etc.
My guess as a prosperity preacher Prince does this a lot. Oooor, we could just watch his videos.
3. 2 Corinthians 8:9 (KJV)
9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
Prince teaches material wealth thru this verse, even though it specifically means spiritual riches, such as peace, salvation, joy, eternal life, etc.
My guess as a prosperity preacher Prince does this a lot. Oooor, we could just watch his videos.
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Welcome sister. I thought your heart was good when I first came across you, so Amen sister.
I have found it hard to know friends who have fallen into this world. But the Lord is so gracious,
and our goal should be to walk as Jesus walked. It is sad when people talk like christians yet believe
a different faith, but it takes time to see this.
I have found it hard to know friends who have fallen into this world. But the Lord is so gracious,
and our goal should be to walk as Jesus walked. It is sad when people talk like christians yet believe
a different faith, but it takes time to see this.
T
I don't know about anyone else, but I sin often ...
Today when I took the bus with my kids, the driver decided to fall short of the bustop .... a very long way ...in the pouring rain.
I always thank the driver when I get off the bus, but this time I consciously held it back. I did not say anything ... I just got off the bus and walked away. Immediately the Holy Spirit brought a scripture to mind: Do not return evil for evil, return good for evil. I regretted my act which defied God's word ... I felt ashamed that I was not walking in the Spirit ... I regretted and repented ... The Holy Spirit brings God's word to remembrance to edify. Correction by convicting my sin chastized me to create in me a stronger resolve to walk in the Spirit and obey my Lord and Savior.
Today when I took the bus with my kids, the driver decided to fall short of the bustop .... a very long way ...in the pouring rain.
I always thank the driver when I get off the bus, but this time I consciously held it back. I did not say anything ... I just got off the bus and walked away. Immediately the Holy Spirit brought a scripture to mind: Do not return evil for evil, return good for evil. I regretted my act which defied God's word ... I felt ashamed that I was not walking in the Spirit ... I regretted and repented ... The Holy Spirit brings God's word to remembrance to edify. Correction by convicting my sin chastized me to create in me a stronger resolve to walk in the Spirit and obey my Lord and Savior.
Interesting because he says in the same letter, that I write to you so you may not sin, anyone who sins is not of God, but you are saying that he is saying oh you're not of God if you say can't sin. That doesn't match the context AT all.
First off John says, the message i have heard I proclaim to you (Gospel)
Next he says, if you are in God you will walk in light
Then he says if you don't walk in light, you're not in God
And finally if you say you are walking in the light, without need of God, you're wrong.
We know this because he then talks about the blood of Christ and how it cleanses us of sin.
Originally you defined your belief of gnostic thought as: knowing self to be saved.
If that is still the case, then sure I can go with that, because we don't know ourselves be saved, we are saved by Him. As a result of being saved we are created in true righteousness and holiness like Him.
C.
First off John says, the message i have heard I proclaim to you (Gospel)
Next he says, if you are in God you will walk in light
Then he says if you don't walk in light, you're not in God
And finally if you say you are walking in the light, without need of God, you're wrong.
We know this because he then talks about the blood of Christ and how it cleanses us of sin.
Originally you defined your belief of gnostic thought as: knowing self to be saved.
If that is still the case, then sure I can go with that, because we don't know ourselves be saved, we are saved by Him. As a result of being saved we are created in true righteousness and holiness like Him.
C.
Cee you come across as a nice guy, but this is just wrong. These old testament characters are our brothers and sisters.
They had a real relationship with our God who never changes, and the way to His heart has never become different.
Years ago I did not see it, but now I do. The relationships they had, their trials, and challenges are the same as mine. and the walk I need to have before the King is still in righteousness and purity.
David was a soldier, he killed many, but his words are words that speak to my heart. His struggles and trials are the same as my own, feeling alone, abandoned, left, yet needing God to come and show His presence to me. And He does. He has taken my sins away from me and set me free. He is my brother.
They had a real relationship with our God who never changes, and the way to His heart has never become different.
Years ago I did not see it, but now I do. The relationships they had, their trials, and challenges are the same as mine. and the walk I need to have before the King is still in righteousness and purity.
David was a soldier, he killed many, but his words are words that speak to my heart. His struggles and trials are the same as my own, feeling alone, abandoned, left, yet needing God to come and show His presence to me. And He does. He has taken my sins away from me and set me free. He is my brother.
H
Omgosh, not the video!!! He's so dry and completely unleaded by the HS..
What's wrong with name and claim it? Did it not work for you bc you didn't understand it?
Or you're picking bc you don't like his word choice?
Shouldn't people be more careful than to blast someone who doesn't belong to you?? Do you think you'll suffer no consequences? Do you who "warn" not do false things yourself? Or do you not know that you will be judged by what you say?
What's wrong with name and claim it? Did it not work for you bc you didn't understand it?
Or you're picking bc you don't like his word choice?
Shouldn't people be more careful than to blast someone who doesn't belong to you?? Do you think you'll suffer no consequences? Do you who "warn" not do false things yourself? Or do you not know that you will be judged by what you say?
T
John 3
[FONT="]19 And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]20 For every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]21 But he who does what is true comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God.
I think maybe some would rather take the view that they do not sin at all, simply so that they can avoid bring their daily sins into the light - to God. But perfect love casts out fear ....[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]20 For every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]21 But he who does what is true comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God.
I think maybe some would rather take the view that they do not sin at all, simply so that they can avoid bring their daily sins into the light - to God. But perfect love casts out fear ....[/FONT]
Okay so that's where we are misunderstanding each other.
Sure we confront of sin, in regard to their righteousness.
We do not confront sin, in regard to their dead sin nature.
What is happening is 2 Scriptures are misinterpreted wrong in 1 John to fit this belief.
1. We will always sin
2. You have to always confess it
3. You have no hope of freedom or righteousness
These 3 ideas keep us focused on sin (or depravity of man), but we are called to purified that we are like Him, in Him.
Remember when Paul says, are you not acting like mere men? We can't define ourselves by flesh standards. We define ourselves by what God says about us, this is renewing our mind, agreeing with Him and His promises, thus partaking of the divine nature.
2 Peter 1:4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.
I agree we confront of sin, but in essence so that they will be convicted of their righteousness. As I've discussed before "repentance" or changing of mind, is turning toward God.
We know this because when Jesus stood in front of them, He said repent for the Kingdom of God is in front of you.
Repentance needs to know who we are not, but also who we are.
We are not sinful creatures, we died to the old man, and are reborn as new creations in Him.
C.
[/QUOTE]
Sure we confront of sin, in regard to their righteousness.
We do not confront sin, in regard to their dead sin nature.
What is happening is 2 Scriptures are misinterpreted wrong in 1 John to fit this belief.
1. We will always sin
2. You have to always confess it
3. You have no hope of freedom or righteousness
These 3 ideas keep us focused on sin (or depravity of man), but we are called to purified that we are like Him, in Him.
Remember when Paul says, are you not acting like mere men? We can't define ourselves by flesh standards. We define ourselves by what God says about us, this is renewing our mind, agreeing with Him and His promises, thus partaking of the divine nature.
2 Peter 1:4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.
I agree we confront of sin, but in essence so that they will be convicted of their righteousness. As I've discussed before "repentance" or changing of mind, is turning toward God.
We know this because when Jesus stood in front of them, He said repent for the Kingdom of God is in front of you.
Repentance needs to know who we are not, but also who we are.
We are not sinful creatures, we died to the old man, and are reborn as new creations in Him.
C.
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Okay great, because I've said elsewhere that Christians do struggle with sin, we know this because the authors of Scripture are continually telling them to not sin. What I've also stated is that John says, I write to you so you may not sin, but IF you do you have an Advocate.
But we can't say that's just how it's going to be, just gotta wait to I die, that's just how I am, because then we throw out a lot of Scriptures that say we have been given freedom in these areas.
I do not ignore the reality of people sinning, but I also do not ignore the reality of their freedom in Christ.
But we can't say that's just how it's going to be, just gotta wait to I die, that's just how I am, because then we throw out a lot of Scriptures that say we have been given freedom in these areas.
I do not ignore the reality of people sinning, but I also do not ignore the reality of their freedom in Christ.
Thanks Peter
I got nothing at all against David, he is probably my favorite OT character.
I am simply saying, let's not forget that we have a better promise in Holy Spirit, that David actually looked forward to. I think sometimes people disqualify themselves from living lives outlined in Scripture, because they don't truly understand how blessed we are today. I mean we have, Holy Spirit, the Living God, teaching us, training us up, we have Jesus Christ continually interceding for us, we have authority in His Name to set the captives free! I mean wow. We are so ridiculously blessed, I am simply saying let's look at WHAT WE HAVE. Because all of those guys? They sure did and they sure are as the great cloud of witnesses around us!
I got nothing at all against David, he is probably my favorite OT character.
I am simply saying, let's not forget that we have a better promise in Holy Spirit, that David actually looked forward to. I think sometimes people disqualify themselves from living lives outlined in Scripture, because they don't truly understand how blessed we are today. I mean we have, Holy Spirit, the Living God, teaching us, training us up, we have Jesus Christ continually interceding for us, we have authority in His Name to set the captives free! I mean wow. We are so ridiculously blessed, I am simply saying let's look at WHAT WE HAVE. Because all of those guys? They sure did and they sure are as the great cloud of witnesses around us!
Those who live for Satan are to be exposed, as commanded by scripture:
Ephesians 5:11-12 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; [SUP]12 [/SUP]for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.
Ephesians 5:11-12 (TEV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Have nothing to do with the worthless things that people do, things that belong to the darkness. Instead, bring them out to the light. [SUP]12 [/SUP](It is really too shameful even to talk about the things they do in secret.)
Ephesians 5:11-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Don’t participate in the fruitless works of darkness, but instead expose them. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For it is shameful even to mention what is done by them in secret.
Ephesians 5:11-12 (NLT)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them. [SUP]12 [/SUP]It is shameful even to talk about the things that ungodly people do in secret.
Ephesians 5:11-12 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; [SUP]12 [/SUP]for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.
Ephesians 5:11-12 (TEV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Have nothing to do with the worthless things that people do, things that belong to the darkness. Instead, bring them out to the light. [SUP]12 [/SUP](It is really too shameful even to talk about the things they do in secret.)
Ephesians 5:11-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Don’t participate in the fruitless works of darkness, but instead expose them. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For it is shameful even to mention what is done by them in secret.
Ephesians 5:11-12 (NLT)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them. [SUP]12 [/SUP]It is shameful even to talk about the things that ungodly people do in secret.