Unmerited Favor..... Has the definition changed? Who changed it?
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L
Same thing happened to me! First the part about seeing my own sins (as a believer) and then more so seeing everyone else's! I literally (as a believer) was accepting the devil's condemnation as if it were the HolySpirit's. Then seeing everyone else's sin and not seeing my own self righteousness. I was receiving and giving condemnation thinking this was the way the HolySpirit worked. Condemning me and others.
But not any more. Now when condemnation comes, I'm aware of where it comes from., the enemy of our souls, the devil. He is the accuser of the brethren. he wants us to take back the condemnation and the shame and try to appease God with our own good works.,and get other people to do the same. And that could not be done. It only shows how weak and beggarly our flesh really is. No real ability to change from the inside out. We can only make a show of the flesh.
So I began to learn about the Holy Spirit and His ministry to the believer., and in doing so learned about who I was IN Christ. That Christ did all that was needed to please God. That God IN Christ deals with His children "graciously" Just like the way we got saved., by grace..,unmerited..,unearned love and favor.
The Holy Spirit reminds me of my standing in Christ as a daughter.,I'm clothed in Christ's righteousness because Jesus gave it to me at the time of my new birth. I'm no longer identified as a sinner-lost, but a saint-found. The Holy Spirit reminds me about Jesus power over sin and death and His ever lasting love and watch care over me., I'm so motivated to love like that too. I want to love God that way and love others that way. Obedience is a fruit of walking out Christ in us.
We allow Him to live His life in and through us by the changed life He put in us. The flesh is apposed to the new spirit man and the flesh can and will do religious things but have the wrong heart motive. If you find yourself getting really angry really annoyed and impatient, you know it is not the Spirit working through you. The heart motive from the Holy Spirit always gives a peace after showing the contrasts of flesh and spirit. The condemnation is not there when the Holy Spirit reveals the truth.
It is simply a fact that the flesh is totally against the things of the spirit and we as Christians with this body of flesh have to chose to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh. This is what our reasonable service also I believe. We are to recon ourselves dead to sin and alive to God. This is done without condemnation. How?? ONLY by understanding the grace of God IN Christ.
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:smoke: sad to say this but we are not familiar unto those men
who preached amongst you
(for we are not even a preacher but only a slaves and messangers)
but it doesnt mean that they were bad people
for we never said anything like that
and when it comes to money
we never took anything unto anyone
even everything that this world could offer
as it is written
:read:
1*The elder to Gaius the beloved, whom I love in truth.
2*Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be healthy, even as your soul prospers.
3*For I rejoiced greatly, when brothers came and testified about your truth, even as you walk in truth.
4*I have no greater joy than this, to hear about my children walking in truth.
5*Beloved, you do a faithful work in whatever you accomplish for those who are brothers and strangers.
6*They have testified about your love before the congregation. You will do well to send them forward on their journey in a manner worthy of God,
7*because for the sake of the Name they went out, taking nothing from the pagansa .
8*We therefore ought to receive such, that we may be fellow workers for the truth.
:ty:
godbless us all always
who preached amongst you
(for we are not even a preacher but only a slaves and messangers)
but it doesnt mean that they were bad people
for we never said anything like that
and when it comes to money
we never took anything unto anyone
even everything that this world could offer
as it is written
:read:
1*The elder to Gaius the beloved, whom I love in truth.
2*Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be healthy, even as your soul prospers.
3*For I rejoiced greatly, when brothers came and testified about your truth, even as you walk in truth.
4*I have no greater joy than this, to hear about my children walking in truth.
5*Beloved, you do a faithful work in whatever you accomplish for those who are brothers and strangers.
6*They have testified about your love before the congregation. You will do well to send them forward on their journey in a manner worthy of God,
7*because for the sake of the Name they went out, taking nothing from the pagansa .
8*We therefore ought to receive such, that we may be fellow workers for the truth.
:ty:
godbless us all always
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This is one of those scriptures that's not as it appears at first glance. It may seem as if it's suggesting that one loses their salvation, but it's not. Take a really close look at it, because believe it or not it's actually confirming the security of a believer
.........Christ's ONE sacrifice is sufficient to cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness. We are born of the spirit ONE time, not multiple times.
This scripture is showing how impossible it is to be saved, then unsaved, then saved again.... because that ONE sacrifice was sufficient to cleanse us the first time!! So to suggest our salvation can be "undone" would be putting Christ to open shame, suggesting that His sacrifice was not sufficient!!! So in other words, "crucifying him afresh" each time by suggesting that He was not able to save us completely the first time, that He must be crucified a second and third time.
It's impossible to renew them again (because we were already renewed) so how can it possibly happen again, because salvation happens ONE time. It cannot happen a second time. Christ was crucified ONCE and it was sufficient.
This is confirming the security of the believer, not suggesting that salvation is undone in any way!
Really - keep looking over that scripture.
In essence this is no different than the gnostics claiming that they were in reality sparks of divinity, and they just needed to understand it.
That translation of Colossians 3:9-10 can't be right. It says we have put off the old man and have put on the new. But that is not something we did. GOD did it. So the aorist in this case can't mean past tense. Here is a better translation IMO:
That translation of Colossians 3:9-10 can't be right. It says we have put off the old man and have put on the new. But that is not something we did. GOD did it. So the aorist in this case can't mean past tense. Here is a better translation IMO:
Do not lie to one another, stripping off the old man together with its practices and putting on the new, which is being renewed into full knowledge in accordance with the image of the one creating him. Colossians 3:10
The verse you were offered in 1 Peter 1:11 already established; the manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify as to the same goal we look back to,the suffering of Christ. No difference same promise, the glory of Christ in God, same gospel . .
It does not say the Holy Spirit was them .But in, with them , yoked together . .Like the name Emmanuel represents God with us, not God is us. It’s how we hear prophecy as he gives us his faith to believe it.
It is the work of God that we can believe God, not of our own selves, not of David
I have heard that teaching before .But unless a person is born again he will not see the kingdom of God.
When you say not joined. In what way ? No hearing of faith?
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Below speaks to every saint, new testament as well as old.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the “Spirit of Christ”, he is none of his.
God purified their hearts according to His faith working in them in order to both will and do His good pleasure just as he does with us . No difference. The first century reformation has come.
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Act 15:8
The request of David (Psalms 5 )in lieu of the fact that he did have the Spirit of Christ,the Holy Spirit of God according to verse 11 (and take not thy holy spirit from me). It would not be any different than in a morning devotion to ask to be strong in the Lord and the power of His strength, and if he did sin that the Holy Spirit in him would restore him .David knew he lived in a body of death and who it was that delivered him from the penalty, eternal separation.
In verse 12 it is the joy of salvation he was requesting of the Spirit of Christ that dwelt in him would retore him to if he did violate any commandment.david was awre I belive that at whatever point a person violtes the perfect law of God they are guilty of the whole law.
.He was not asking for salvation as if he lost it.
There is no need to take away the Holy Spirit of Christ from the Old testament saints. What is applied to the New Testament saints is applied to all. One bride, one gospel.
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
It does not say the Holy Spirit was them .But in, with them , yoked together . .Like the name Emmanuel represents God with us, not God is us. It’s how we hear prophecy as he gives us his faith to believe it.
It is the work of God that we can believe God, not of our own selves, not of David
I have heard that teaching before .But unless a person is born again he will not see the kingdom of God.
When you say not joined. In what way ? No hearing of faith?
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Below speaks to every saint, new testament as well as old.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the “Spirit of Christ”, he is none of his.
God purified their hearts according to His faith working in them in order to both will and do His good pleasure just as he does with us . No difference. The first century reformation has come.
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Act 15:8
The request of David (Psalms 5 )in lieu of the fact that he did have the Spirit of Christ,the Holy Spirit of God according to verse 11 (and take not thy holy spirit from me). It would not be any different than in a morning devotion to ask to be strong in the Lord and the power of His strength, and if he did sin that the Holy Spirit in him would restore him .David knew he lived in a body of death and who it was that delivered him from the penalty, eternal separation.
In verse 12 it is the joy of salvation he was requesting of the Spirit of Christ that dwelt in him would retore him to if he did violate any commandment.david was awre I belive that at whatever point a person violtes the perfect law of God they are guilty of the whole law.
.He was not asking for salvation as if he lost it.
There is no need to take away the Holy Spirit of Christ from the Old testament saints. What is applied to the New Testament saints is applied to all. One bride, one gospel.
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
U
Perfect truth, perfectly elucidated. Thank you Katy-follower!!
This is one of those scriptures that's not as it appears at first glance. It may seem as if it's suggesting that one loses their salvation, but it's not. Take a really close look at it, because believe it or not it's actually confirming the security of a believer .........
Christ's ONE sacrifice is sufficient to cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness. We are born of the spirit ONE time, not multiple times.
This scripture is showing how impossible it is to be saved, then unsaved, then saved again.... because that ONE sacrifice was sufficient to cleanse us the first time!! So to suggest our salvation can be "undone" would be putting Christ to open shame, suggesting that His sacrifice was not sufficient!!! So in other words, "crucifying him afresh" each time by suggesting that He was not able to save us completely the first time, that He must be crucified a second and third time.
It's impossible to renew them again (because we were already renewed) so how can it possibly happen again, because salvation happens ONE time. It cannot happen a second time. Christ was crucified ONCE and it was sufficient.
This is confirming the security of the believer, not suggesting that salvation is undone in any way!
Really - keep looking over that scripture.
.........Christ's ONE sacrifice is sufficient to cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness. We are born of the spirit ONE time, not multiple times.
This scripture is showing how impossible it is to be saved, then unsaved, then saved again.... because that ONE sacrifice was sufficient to cleanse us the first time!! So to suggest our salvation can be "undone" would be putting Christ to open shame, suggesting that His sacrifice was not sufficient!!! So in other words, "crucifying him afresh" each time by suggesting that He was not able to save us completely the first time, that He must be crucified a second and third time.
It's impossible to renew them again (because we were already renewed) so how can it possibly happen again, because salvation happens ONE time. It cannot happen a second time. Christ was crucified ONCE and it was sufficient.
This is confirming the security of the believer, not suggesting that salvation is undone in any way!
Really - keep looking over that scripture.
Logic of a mystic birth problem
Once you separate behaviour from spirituality, and you say once you see in faith reality you
become eternal, faith is then irrelevant. You are eternal.
The problem is simple and destroys faith itself. If you become a child of God, a mystical being,
then you can exercise you rights and become what you want. So if a challenge to your faith
or position occurs there is nothing for you to say no, I have to go another way. You are the
true source of all authority because you are now the eternal presence.
So you see these groups get more and more ectastic and extreme, with different leaders peeling
off into new age groups, fire tunnels, astral travelling, and anything that encourages the mystical.
So the centre is the emotional sense of the presence of an experience, and no longer love, or life
change, holiness, healing, repentance, encouragement. And the poison is saying any other group or
experience is so much less or relevant. And they all teach legalism, hypocracy and lies.
So what happens when this fails, and it comes to a dead end. Not only have they given up on
this free ticket with no reality, they have been poisoned against normal faithful followers of Christ
just learning how to walk. And this is the real fruit, bringing down the word of God and causing
confusion and redefining all the laws and respect for morality. And these people claim they are doing
something good?
Once you separate behaviour from spirituality, and you say once you see in faith reality you
become eternal, faith is then irrelevant. You are eternal.
The problem is simple and destroys faith itself. If you become a child of God, a mystical being,
then you can exercise you rights and become what you want. So if a challenge to your faith
or position occurs there is nothing for you to say no, I have to go another way. You are the
true source of all authority because you are now the eternal presence.
So you see these groups get more and more ectastic and extreme, with different leaders peeling
off into new age groups, fire tunnels, astral travelling, and anything that encourages the mystical.
So the centre is the emotional sense of the presence of an experience, and no longer love, or life
change, holiness, healing, repentance, encouragement. And the poison is saying any other group or
experience is so much less or relevant. And they all teach legalism, hypocracy and lies.
So what happens when this fails, and it comes to a dead end. Not only have they given up on
this free ticket with no reality, they have been poisoned against normal faithful followers of Christ
just learning how to walk. And this is the real fruit, bringing down the word of God and causing
confusion and redefining all the laws and respect for morality. And these people claim they are doing
something good?
U
Ladylynn,
I have read this several times. Such beautiful words of encouragement and spiritual understanding.
It is absolutely true we can only understand these things by His love, in His love and through His love given to us by His Holy Spirit in us. (Thank you Cee!)
It melts away all the messy stuff on this message board.
Keep it coming Lynn...you keep me coming back!
I have read this several times. Such beautiful words of encouragement and spiritual understanding.
It is absolutely true we can only understand these things by His love, in His love and through His love given to us by His Holy Spirit in us. (Thank you Cee!)
It melts away all the messy stuff on this message board.
Keep it coming Lynn...you keep me coming back!
Action from the believers
Colossians 3 call to action
"set your hearts on things above.."
"Set your minds ont things above.."
"Put to death.."
"But now you must also rid yourselves.."
"clothe yourselves.."
"put on love.."
There is no talk about the ministry of the Holy Spirit but choice and action
by the believer. The language of HG is God does this for you. But reading
these verses it is us who chooses and acts. But in their mind this is self
trying to justify oneself before God, rather than knowing how to walk and then
walking in it.
Colossians 3 call to action
"set your hearts on things above.."
"Set your minds ont things above.."
"Put to death.."
"But now you must also rid yourselves.."
"clothe yourselves.."
"put on love.."
There is no talk about the ministry of the Holy Spirit but choice and action
by the believer. The language of HG is God does this for you. But reading
these verses it is us who chooses and acts. But in their mind this is self
trying to justify oneself before God, rather than knowing how to walk and then
walking in it.
The danger of polarised thinking.
The whole concept which is a lie, is behaviour has to be either approved or disapproved
of. It comes from a mind that does not know how to accept you are loved, and everything
is ok unless it is obviously sinful. This is how love works. You are accepted, really, really
accepted. You do not have to earn approval or do this or that, to get a gold star.
But this is the language being used here, and once you accept its premise, you have accepted
the mindset. God is saying you are my children, together we will work out how to share and to
whom.
If you fall under conviction of sin, and it really is a sin, you know who is speaking to you, and
you need to repent. But God is mainly into encouragement, upbuilding, seeing the good in others
and the good of a situation. Again people who talk about condemnation rarely talk about God
sharing about the good he has led them into, the blessings they have and the support from those
around. So beware these kind of sharing, and listen to Paul
Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
Col 3:12-14
The whole concept which is a lie, is behaviour has to be either approved or disapproved
of. It comes from a mind that does not know how to accept you are loved, and everything
is ok unless it is obviously sinful. This is how love works. You are accepted, really, really
accepted. You do not have to earn approval or do this or that, to get a gold star.
But this is the language being used here, and once you accept its premise, you have accepted
the mindset. God is saying you are my children, together we will work out how to share and to
whom.
If you fall under conviction of sin, and it really is a sin, you know who is speaking to you, and
you need to repent. But God is mainly into encouragement, upbuilding, seeing the good in others
and the good of a situation. Again people who talk about condemnation rarely talk about God
sharing about the good he has led them into, the blessings they have and the support from those
around. So beware these kind of sharing, and listen to Paul
Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
Col 3:12-14
Cee said
This is nothing more than pure speculation and nonsense not based on scripture, but is also contrary to scripture. Saul was made a new person and was given a new heart.....
1 Samuel 10:6-9 "And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.[SUP]7 [/SUP]And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day."
You are trying to make out that God did not function the same with Old testament saints as with New, but your boasting is wrong. The same Spirit that was in David and also working in the Holy Prophets is the same Spirit of Christ that worked in the NT disciples. Jesus Christ is the Spirit of prophecy that spoke to and through both Old and New testament prophets and disciples.
By One Spirit both Old and New testament believers are enjoined into One body, both Jews and Gentiles. Jesus Christ is the root and the offspring of Jesse, not just the root and the offspring of Paul.
The receiving of Christ in OT saints is the same, and is shown here....
1 Corinthians 10:1-12 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
Gentiles are warned of boasting against the natural branches=OT SAINTS OF ISRAEL
Romans 11:16-22
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
1 Samuel 10:6-9 "And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.[SUP]7 [/SUP]And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day."
You are trying to make out that God did not function the same with Old testament saints as with New, but your boasting is wrong. The same Spirit that was in David and also working in the Holy Prophets is the same Spirit of Christ that worked in the NT disciples. Jesus Christ is the Spirit of prophecy that spoke to and through both Old and New testament prophets and disciples.
By One Spirit both Old and New testament believers are enjoined into One body, both Jews and Gentiles. Jesus Christ is the root and the offspring of Jesse, not just the root and the offspring of Paul.
The receiving of Christ in OT saints is the same, and is shown here....
1 Corinthians 10:1-12 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
Gentiles are warned of boasting against the natural branches=OT SAINTS OF ISRAEL
Romans 11:16-22
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
T
This is one of those scriptures that's not as it appears at first glance. It may seem as if it's suggesting that one loses their salvation, but it's not. Take a really close look at it, because believe it or not it's actually confirming the security of a believer .........
Christ's ONE sacrifice is sufficient to cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness. We are born of the spirit ONE time, not multiple times.
This scripture is showing how impossible it is to be saved, then unsaved, then saved again.... because that ONE sacrifice was sufficient to cleanse us the first time!! So to suggest our salvation can be "undone" would be putting Christ to open shame, suggesting that His sacrifice was not sufficient!!! So in other words, "crucifying him afresh" each time by suggesting that He was not able to save us completely the first time, that He must be crucified a second and third time.
It's impossible to renew them again (because we were already renewed) so how can it possibly happen again, because salvation happens ONE time. It cannot happen a second time. Christ was crucified ONCE and it was sufficient.
This is confirming the security of the believer, not suggesting that salvation is undone in any way!
Really - keep looking over that scripture.
.........Christ's ONE sacrifice is sufficient to cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness. We are born of the spirit ONE time, not multiple times.
This scripture is showing how impossible it is to be saved, then unsaved, then saved again.... because that ONE sacrifice was sufficient to cleanse us the first time!! So to suggest our salvation can be "undone" would be putting Christ to open shame, suggesting that His sacrifice was not sufficient!!! So in other words, "crucifying him afresh" each time by suggesting that He was not able to save us completely the first time, that He must be crucified a second and third time.
It's impossible to renew them again (because we were already renewed) so how can it possibly happen again, because salvation happens ONE time. It cannot happen a second time. Christ was crucified ONCE and it was sufficient.
This is confirming the security of the believer, not suggesting that salvation is undone in any way!
Really - keep looking over that scripture.
It IS impossible to be reborn more than once. I too believe that is what this scripture is saying.
This seems pretty simple to me ... some can (and will) fall away (apostasy) and will not be inclined thereafter to return for lack of the Spirit who causes us to repent.
I don't see how this confirms the security of the believer.
I do see how some doctrines have infiltrated the mind so deeply as to blind some to the truth....
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I do know it speaks of many in one place but I am not sure that it is incorrect not to say all
Unless the word all is really many here
2 Cr 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
2 Cr 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
Im not the word expert
Unless the word all is really many here
2 Cr 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
2 Cr 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
Im not the word expert
T
We know there are tares ... that the road to destruction is broad ... that many will say "Lord Lord" ... that many who have been invited will not be dressed for the wedding and expelled ... that many who received talents will lose even what they buried ... that five virgins were not allowed in for lack of oil ... Judas destined for perdition ...
More than enough scriptures to make one ponder.
More than enough scriptures to make one ponder.
how many times would you say,we have to repent of sins to be born of the Spirit?
After being reborn,If you mean repent as In not doing that behavior the same the next time that situation presents Itself,then I agree,but If you are saying,that you need to confess all of your remembered sins again to be forgiven then that would be just a religious spiritual requirement that Is done to satisfy the flesh.
A person that has been reborn would not want to live In sin because we are GOD's workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works.
Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version(KJV)
8.)For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9.)Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10.)For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
+++
Philippians 2:11-13
King James Version(KJV)
11.)And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12.)Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13.)For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
After being reborn,If you mean repent as In not doing that behavior the same the next time that situation presents Itself,then I agree,but If you are saying,that you need to confess all of your remembered sins again to be forgiven then that would be just a religious spiritual requirement that Is done to satisfy the flesh.
A person that has been reborn would not want to live In sin because we are GOD's workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works.
Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version(KJV)
8.)For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9.)Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10.)For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
+++
Philippians 2:11-13
King James Version(KJV)
11.)And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12.)Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13.)For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
I believe we die to ourselves, are saved, reborn in Christ, joined with His Spirit, these are eternal realities, He was slain from the foundation of the world.
And as we are taught and lead by the Spirit we see the fruit of abiding in Him. This is my understanding of Scriptures that teach renewing of the mind and growing in the of Christ.
We see new names given through out Scripture, Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel, Simon to Peter, Saul to Paul, etc.
As people discovered aspects of who God was, He turned around and either told them or imputed aspects into them.
Of course, these men could have chosen to disagree with who God said they were, which I think is one of the biggest hurdles to seeing the will of God manifest in our lives.
He says all the promises in Christ are yes, and WE give the amen. Which is our agreement to His promises.
And as we are taught and lead by the Spirit we see the fruit of abiding in Him. This is my understanding of Scriptures that teach renewing of the mind and growing in the of Christ.
We see new names given through out Scripture, Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel, Simon to Peter, Saul to Paul, etc.
As people discovered aspects of who God was, He turned around and either told them or imputed aspects into them.
Of course, these men could have chosen to disagree with who God said they were, which I think is one of the biggest hurdles to seeing the will of God manifest in our lives.
He says all the promises in Christ are yes, and WE give the amen. Which is our agreement to His promises.
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