Unmerited Favor..... Has the definition changed? Who changed it?

[InSpiritInTruth]

So if we have the same thing, why did they look forward to our day, why do we have a better promise, and what did they not receive that we did? As l outlined in my response.

If you are talking to me you need to post scriptures to what you are referring to as them looking forward to our day, and them not receiving what we did? In your earlier post the verse numbers were not matching up with your comments. But concerning the better promises that is spoken as being a part of the New Covenant, yes, because the New is better than the Old. But that does not mean we are held in higher regard than the OT saints of Israel who are the first fruits of Christ. As a matter of fact in the book of Revelation we see the ones who are without fault and are the closest to Jesus are the 144,000 saints of the first fruits of Israel who are already redeemed from the earth.

But we all are going to be a Nation and Kingdom of Kings and Priests, so why argue who is better than who? Both Jew and Gentile are saved by the grace of God, but we are no better than they.

Romans 3:9[SUP]9 [/SUP]What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

 

[Cee]

I have listed my reasonings on why the new is better than the old, what are yours? And I agree we are not better than the OT saints.

Have you ever considered why John is called the greatest prophet ever (man born among women), but least to the children of God?

My thinking on this is because John was not reborn. Which is interesring because he did leap in Elizabeth's belly. Which I've explained my understanding as the Spirit came upon him. But I think there is something very significant to being reborn.

I do not detract from the OT saints, but I do magnify the incredible blessing we live in today. Not because of us, but because of Him.

 

[UnderGrace]

My thinking on this is because John was not reborn.

Just curious why you say this and what you mean?

 

[Katy-follower]

This is one of those scriptures that's not as it appears at first glance. It may seem as if it's suggesting that one loses their salvation, but it's not. Take a really close look at it, because believe it or not it's actually confirming the security of a believer .........


Christ's ONE sacrifice is sufficient to cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness. We are born of the spirit ONE time, not multiple times.

This scripture is showing how impossible it is to be saved, then unsaved, then saved again.... because that ONE sacrifice was sufficient to cleanse us the first time!! So to suggest our salvation can be "undone" would be putting Christ to open shame, suggesting that His sacrifice was not sufficient!!! So in other words, "crucifying him afresh" each time by suggesting that He was not able to save us completely the first time, that He must be crucified a second and third time.

It's impossible to renew them again (because we were already renewed) so how can it possibly happen again, because salvation happens ONE time. It cannot happen a second time. Christ was crucified ONCE and it was sufficient.

This is confirming the security of the believer, not suggesting that salvation is undone in any way!

Really - keep looking over that scripture.

Take a read of this! I'm quoting myself, to add something else that precedes this scripture.

The subject is spiritual immaturity ......



Chapter 5:12-14: "For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


V1-3: "Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits"

After this comes verse 4 in my quote: "For it is impossible..." (the "for" being a conclusion)

Connection here between elementary principles, the going on and on again about the foundation of repentance...... and then it goes on to confirm an elementary principle that I mentioned in my quote - the impossibility of being saved, unsaved, then saved again (impossible to be renewed again when already renewed) - this is elementary!!

Can anyone else see all of this. He is talking to believers here.

So yes - eternal security is an elementary principle!!!!!!!!

 

[Cee]

John the Baptist because Jesus wasn't crucified yet.

Just curious why you say this and what you mean?

 

[UnderGrace]

John the Baptist because Jesus wasn't crucified yet.

Got it. Thanks

 

[Cee]

Got it. Thanks

What is John the Baptist's role?
Matthew 11:13-14, Jesus says, "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."

None greater born of a woman that John:
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Matthew 11:11

Enter into the Kingdom by being born of the Spirit:
John 3:5, Jesus says, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." Only those born again can discern and enter into the kingdom of God.

What do we see and hear that they didn't? It could be Jesus Himself, but we do have Theophanies of Him in OT.
Matthew 11:13 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

What did they not receive that we did?
Hebrews 11:39And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

Here's why it's important we understand the New Convenant:

6But as it is, Christ[SUP]b[/SUP] has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. 7For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.

What is the new covenant?
8For he finds fault with them when he says:[SUP]c[/SUP]“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah,
9not like the covenant that I made with their fathers
on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt.
For they did not continue in my covenant,
and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord.
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
11And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor
and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
for they shall all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12For I will be merciful toward their iniquities,
and I will remember their sins no more.”

- The New covenant is His law on our hearts and minds (reborn?)
- We will all know Him personally not need to be taught of Him (Taught of Spirit)
- We shall call Him our God, we see this in Thomas when he realized who Jesus was.
- Our sins will be remembered no more.

Why is there no longer any offering for sin?
Hebrews 10:18Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

What shall we conclude about sin?
Hebrews 12:1Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I have listed my reasonings on why the new is better than the old, what are yours? And I agree we are not better than the OT saints.

Have you ever considered why John is called the greatest prophet ever (man born among women), but least to the children of God?

My thinking on this is because John was not reborn. Which is interesring because he did leap in Elizabeth's belly. Which I've explained my understanding as the Spirit came upon him. But I think there is something very significant to being reborn.

I do not detract from the OT saints, but I do magnify the incredible blessing we live in today. Not because of us, but because of Him.

I agreed the New is better than the Old, but the disagreement earlier was about whether or not the OT saints where sealed with the Holy Spirit as the NT saints are, and they are as I've already shown. And they also have God's law and testimony sealed in their hearts by the Spirit---->>>>Isaiah 8:16 "Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples." The seal or mark of God is the Holy Spirit.

Also John was already born with the Holy Spirit.....Luke 1:15 "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

And he grew stronger in the Holy Spirit as he got older.....Luke 1:80 "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel."

Same was said of Jesus......

Luke 2:40 "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him."

So why would John have to be born again of the Spirit if he was already born of the Spirit like Jesus? Do you think Jesus had to be born again?

Also Johns parents were also filled with the Spirit before Jesus was crucified, so no need to wait for his death and resurrection to be filled with the Spirit.


Luke 1:41
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Luke 1:67
And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

 

[vic1980]

I agreed the New is better than the Old, but the disagreement earlier was about whether or not the OT saints where sealed with the Holy Spirit as the NT saints are, and they are as I've already shown. And they also have God's law and testimony sealed in their hearts by the Spirit---->>>>Isaiah 8:16 "Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples." The seal or mark of God is the Holy Spirit.

Also John was already born with the Holy Spirit.....Luke 1:15 "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

And he grew stronger in the Holy Spirit as he got older.....Luke 1:80 "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel."

Same was said of Jesus......

Luke 2:40 "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him."

So why would John have to be born again of the Spirit if he was already born of the Spirit like Jesus? Do you think Jesus had to be born again?

Also Johns parents were also filled with the Spirit before Jesus was crucified, so no need to wait for his death and resurrection to be filled with the Spirit.


Luke 1:41
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Luke 1:67
And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

But many will still deny the truth, that is in scripture which grieve me

 

[ladylynn]

I believe we die to ourselves, are saved, reborn in Christ, joined with His Spirit, these are eternal realities, He was slain from the foundation of the world.

And as we are taught and lead by the Spirit we see the fruit of abiding in Him. This is my understanding of Scriptures that teach renewing of the mind and growing in the of Christ.

We see new names given through out Scripture, Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel, Simon to Peter, Saul to Paul, etc.

As people discovered aspects of who God was, He turned around and either told them or imputed aspects into them.

Of course, these men could have chosen to disagree with who God said they were, which I think is one of the biggest hurdles to seeing the will of God manifest in our lives.

He says all the promises in Christ are yes, and WE give the amen. Which is our agreement to His promises.


And one of the biggest and major-est problems in the church today is Christians don't know the promises to say amen to them., OR they don't believe the promises are for us today or for them personally. We have to "repent" (change OUR minds and come into agreement with HIM and HIS WORD to see these promises come to fruition in our lives. Otherwise, even older seasoned Christians will get to heaven and find out about all the many blessings and victories they could have walked in if only they stepped out and believed He would ACTUALLY DO WHAT HE SAID.

 

[ladylynn]

I have listed my reasonings on why the new is better than the old, what are yours? And I agree we are not better than the OT saints.

Have you ever considered why John is called the greatest prophet ever (man born among women), but least to the children of God?

My thinking on this is because John was not reborn. Which is interesring because he did leap in Elizabeth's belly. Which I've explained my understanding as the Spirit came upon him. But I think there is something very significant to being reborn.

I do not detract from the OT saints, but I do magnify the incredible blessing we live in today. Not because of us, but because of Him.

Yes., the importance of knowing about the covenant we are in today and that we are no longer in the old covenants of yesterday. We are new covenant saints with new covenant conditions and blessings. And even the Bible says they are "better promises" wow! One being the giving of the Holy Spirit at the time of our new birth (the time of our salvation)

 

[PeterJens]

Yes., the importance of knowing about the covenant we are in today and that we are no longer in the old covenants of yesterday. We are new covenant saints with new covenant conditions and blessings. And even the Bible says they are "better promises" wow! One being the giving of the Holy Spirit at the time of our new birth (the time of our salvation)

The question has never been about the blessings, it has been about walking in righteousness
and purity. Wherever Gods people go their will always be blessing, but it is the reality of
His presence that is always in question.

Jesus said that His presence was to be demonstrated by the love people had one to another
not the miracles or healings that have taken place. The problem has always been people
knowing the reality of God moving in their hearts not is this illness or problem healed.

And the testimony we hear is not we are walking in victory but we are constantly walking
in sin, and we claim health and wealth which God provides as proof of His working in our
hearts.

The problem is if you are not walking in purity and righteousness, you do not have the
victory of Christ, and health is probably what you already possess irrespective of your
faith and your wealth is of this world and its fruit and not related to God at all.

So very easily you end up walking in a false gospel with unfulfilled aspirations and denial
of the realities that should be within.

 

[UnderGrace]

To the OP....... yes the definition has been changed and has been corrected it has been returned to the fullness of what God's grace truly is, some scholars and theologians have constrained and confined it to few mere words.

Well God is greater than any theologians definitions and sometimes He raises people up to point us back to what His written word said all along.

And here are some quotes from the man who at the very least challenged our thinking and reminded us of the true biblical tremendous love and freedom Jesus has won for us! May you be edified.



Knowing that you are completely forgiven destroys the power of sin in your life.
God doesn't want us to have rigid rituals with Him. In the new covenant, He is more interested in having a relationship with us.

The law condemns the best of us; but grace saves the worst of us.


The more I thought to myself, 'Are my thoughts right, am I being obedient enough?' the worse it was... one of the most painful things you can experience in life is not so much physical pain, but being self-occupied. Because to the extent you are self-occupied, that's the extent you will be in pain.


Only the Holy Spirit, the spirit of the lord, can transform us.

I'm not saying everything out there is bad and toxic, but there are some things that are not scriptural. For example, some people don't understand that the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.


When we are fearful and worried all the time, we are living as if we don't believe that we have a strong and able Shepherd who is tender hearted toward us, who only leads us to good places, who protects us and lovingly watches over us.

There are days when my heart is troubled, and just being in the Lord's presence and thinking about His love for me fills my heart with inexplicable peace and joy.


Joseph Prince Quotes
Joseph Prince Quotes - BrainyQuote

 

[ladylynn]

To the OP....... yes the definition has been changed and has been corrected it has been returned to the fullness of what God's grace truly is, some scholars and theologians have constrained and confined it to few mere words.

Well God is greater than any theologians definitions and sometimes He raises people up to point us back to what His written word said all along.

And here are some quotes from the man who at the very least challenged our thinking and reminded us of the true biblical tremendous love and freedom Jesus has won for us! May you be edified.



Knowing that you are completely forgiven destroys the power of sin in your life.
God doesn't want us to have rigid rituals with Him. In the new covenant, He is more interested in having a relationship with us.

The law condemns the best of us; but grace saves the worst of us.


The more I thought to myself, 'Are my thoughts right, am I being obedient enough?' the worse it was... one of the most painful things you can experience in life is not so much physical pain, but being self-occupied. Because to the extent you are self-occupied, that's the extent you will be in pain.


Only the Holy Spirit, the spirit of the lord, can transform us.

I'm not saying everything out there is bad and toxic, but there are some things that are not scriptural. For example, some people don't understand that the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.


When we are fearful and worried all the time, we are living as if we don't believe that we have a strong and able Shepherd who is tender hearted toward us, who only leads us to good places, who protects us and lovingly watches over us.

There are days when my heart is troubled, and just being in the Lord's presence and thinking about His love for me fills my heart with inexplicable peace and joy.


Joseph Prince Quotes
Joseph Prince Quotes - BrainyQuote

Good post UnderGrace. I very much agree and concur with those findings., as did many old time saints! (and do new time saints) Amen.

Marvelous grace of our loving Lord., grace that exceeds our sin and our guilt., yonder at Calvary's mount out poured there where the blood of the Lamb was spilled.

[FONT=&quot]Grace, grace., God's grace, grace that will pardon and cleanse within., Grace, grace God's grace., Grace that is greater than all our sins.

Sorry., don't have my hymnal with me. But if you know hymns you know that one even if I mixed up the stanzas! [/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

[Stephen63]

To the OP....... yes the definition has been changed and has been corrected it has been returned to the fullness of what God's grace truly is, some scholars and theologians have constrained and confined it to few mere words.

Well God is greater than any theologians definitions and sometimes He raises people up to point us back to what His written word said all along.

And here are some quotes from the man who at the very least challenged our thinking and reminded us of the true biblical tremendous love and freedom Jesus has won for us! May you be edified.



Knowing that you are completely forgiven destroys the power of sin in your life.
God doesn't want us to have rigid rituals with Him. In the new covenant, He is more interested in having a relationship with us.

The law condemns the best of us; but grace saves the worst of us.


The more I thought to myself, 'Are my thoughts right, am I being obedient enough?' the worse it was... one of the most painful things you can experience in life is not so much physical pain, but being self-occupied. Because to the extent you are self-occupied, that's the extent you will be in pain.


Only the Holy Spirit, the spirit of the lord, can transform us.

I'm not saying everything out there is bad and toxic, but there are some things that are not scriptural. For example, some people don't understand that the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.


When we are fearful and worried all the time, we are living as if we don't believe that we have a strong and able Shepherd who is tender hearted toward us, who only leads us to good places, who protects us and lovingly watches over us.

There are days when my heart is troubled, and just being in the Lord's presence and thinking about His love for me fills my heart with inexplicable peace and joy.


Joseph Prince Quotes
Joseph Prince Quotes - BrainyQuote

Since you are using Prince's quotes , obviously you're implying Prince' version of Grace.

Aaaaagain, there was a time when mature, responsible christians wouldn't take the word of one man without fully investigating the person & their doctrine first. Hypergrace is a new doctrine with its beginning in 1979.

With Hypergrace, single scriptures are used without context or supporting scripture. Prince's sermons are the same way.

There's no such thing, for instance, as "the Benjamin generation" he keeps talking about. Basically made up.

 

[UnderGrace]

Since you are using Prince's quotes , obviously you're implying Prince' version of Grace.

Aaaaagain, there was a time when mature, responsible christians wouldn't take the word of one man without fully investigating the person & their doctrine first. Hypergrace is a new doctrine with its beginning in 1979.

With Hypergrace, single scriptures are used without context or supporting scripture. Prince's sermons are the same way.

There's no such thing, for instance, as "the Benjamin generation" he keeps talking about. Basically made up.

You are absolutely correct!!!

I became a born again believer at 20, then spent the next thirty years reading MacArthur (boy did he mess be up.. grace but be good but you have grace but be good) Piper, Ryrie, Watchmen Nee and on and on.

Confused I was, saved by grace some said that yes, some said you had better first clean up your act and then come to Jesus, others said you better be a pleasing child and keep mortifying the deeds of the flesh.

Finally I took all those books and through them out!!

Gone. Start again. Still looking though to get it right and understand the Christian life.

Then I meet a street preacher who tells me that even having pictures on my wall is idolatry. According to him everywhere I turned I was at risk of losing my salvation.

In that world do you ever know if you have enough faith and are set apart enough? So I am saved but I have to keep up all these rules and regulations NOPE that does not sound right according to what I know about Jesus.

Boy I am on the hunt now to find out about what is this grace and salvation I have.

Well I read God’s word and you know what He told me, I am not condemned and His grace is sufficient for me, but I sure had 30 years of junk to get rid of first.

Finally… Finally I am set free.

Sure I sought out grace teachers, are they all trustworthy maybe not, are they false teachers maybe, time will tell. I will tell you one thing they pointed me in the right direction so now I at least have a way to know who to listen to, if they do not bring a message that lines up with the Victory of the Cross and God’s love it is not the Gospel and they are indeed false teachers.
Joseph Prince and those who teach the grace message bring grace to life which it should be.

You call it hyper grace, I call it grace that is the living water of Jesus, so I never thirst, always there for me when I need it.

This is God, the one we are told has abounding grace, the One I want to serve and the only God I want to learn about.

 

[ladylynn]

You are absolutely correct!!!

I became a born again believer at 20, then spent the next thirty years reading MacArthur (boy did he mess be up.. grace but be good but you have grace but be good) Piper, Ryrie, Watchmen Nee and on and on.

Confused I was, saved by grace some said that yes, some said you had better first clean up your act and then come to Jesus, others said you better be a pleasing child and keep mortifying the deeds of the flesh.

Finally I took all those books and through them out!!

Gone. Start again. Still looking though to get it right and understand the Christian life.

Then I meet a street preacher who tells me that even having pictures on my wall is idolatry. According to him everywhere I turned I was at risk of losing my salvation.

In that world do you ever know if you have enough faith and are set apart enough? So I am saved but I have to keep up all these rules and regulations NOPE that does not sound right according to what I know about Jesus.

Boy I am on the hunt now to find out about what is this grace and salvation I have.

Well I read God’s word and you know what He told me, I am not condemned and His grace is sufficient for me, but I sure had 30 years of junk to get rid of first.

Finally… Finally I am set free.

Sure I sought out grace teachers, are they all trustworthy maybe not, are they false teachers maybe, time will tell. I will tell you one thing they pointed me in the right direction so now I at least have a way to know who to listen to, if they do not bring a message that lines up with the Victory of the Cross and God’s love it is not the Gospel and they are indeed false teachers.
Joseph Prince and those who teach the grace message bring grace to life which it should be.

You call it hyper grace, I call it grace that is the living water of Jesus, so I never thirst, always there for me when I need it.

This is God, the one we are told has abounding grace, the One I want to serve and the only God I want to learn about.

It's amazing to read the similarities we have from reading your posts UnderGrace. Must be there are many many others like us who were raised on John MacArthur and teachers like him. I still have the Ryrie Study Bible that I use for the helpful notes that I still agree on certain doctrines Ryrie teaches., and although didn't throw ALL my former teaching stuff away (except did chuck the MacArthur stuff) I don't agree with their ideas of grace in relationship to Jesus at all! But do use the things I do agree with from them. (take the nutritious hay with the alfalfa and clover and spit out the straw)

Yes, MacArthur was a very difficult one to make sense of. I got the doctrinal stuff very well because our church taught the same thing. But no love no grace that could (or would) be there for me in times of need.

And it took many years to get out of those ingrained religious teachings about conditional performance based love and acceptance from God. Now I can see it coming a mile away. I know the flavor of conditional grace teachings and I shun it as far as the east is from the west LOL.

It's the love (grace) of God that bringeth salvation." Not the laws of God.,or the performance of man 'to' God. I can give someone a run for their money when it comes to doctrinal truths and having a working knowledge of the Bible. I can even give Stephen the OP here a good verse by verse. And am very capable of sparring with a well trained Jehovah Witness when he comes to my door enough for him to not want to come again. Enough so he tells his kingdom hall friends to not bother going to that ladies house. I can also pretty much talk with anyone on CC about the Bible and know what they are referring to and be able to give my views using the Bible verses and doctrine I have learned and know just as well as anyone and maybe even better than some.

So when the true knowledge of His grace did come my way I knew it was true. It works in perfectly with Bible doctrine and as a matter of fact it ties all the lose ends together and brings in TONS of new and living truths. The new ones enhancing and making new the old truths I already knew. Only now even more by Holy Spirit conviction and personal experience of having been with Jesus knowing His love for me.

A person can have tons of Bible doctrine and tons of Bible teaching and be void of the Spirit working in their heart because they do not know the love of God IN Christ. Why does the Bible give us such a complete and shocking and seemingly impossible description of "Love" in 1 Corinthians 13????? Because without God's love, we can have all these truths and be NOTHING. And yet the love of God is not taught first and foremost, it is sort of tagged as a nicety to embroider and put on a pillow and give to newlyweds.

As a matter of fact., if we talk too much about the love (grace) of God, we get labeled a hyper gracer person. As if we were so lacking in our knowledge of Bible doctrine that we would over compensate about love and that would ALLOW us to sin and not only sin but sin big time.

Some Christians (and i was one of them) assume you know nothing about the Bible as if you were never aware of the maaaaannnnnny verses they put up to refute God's love (grace) in case you were thinking of sinning and using your Father's love as a place to sin in His face. As if our motivation for relating to Jesus was one of sinning and not loving Him for alllll He has done for us now.

Ohh how man's religion has gotten in the way of God's truth!! Just posted this verse in another thread but it also applies here too. Romans 11:33

Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and decisions and how unfathomable and untraceable are His ways!

 

[UnderGrace]

And yet the love of God is not taught first and foremost, it is sort of tagged as a nicety to embroider and put on a pillow and give to newlyweds.

LOL ...but true indeed!

I am thankful there are preachers who preach the love/grace message it is time we redeem HIM from religion because God is love means it is all about relationship.