Was Adam Made Holy

[Dino246]

Imagine this. Has anyone ever known a baby to lie, steal, murder or commit any other sins. They cannot do those things, and are innocent. Then they grow up and get married like Adam and Eve did, but before that they come into the knowledge of right and wrong, and the Bible is telling us to beware of iniquity, or we shall be thrown out of the garden. And we have been, for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

An infant may not lie or steal, but a small child? Just ask anyone who works in a daycare; kids aren't called "little monsters" without cause. The predilection to sin is evident at a very early age.

Genesis is not a mere moral lesson warning of iniquity, but actual literal history of the foundation of sin and its consequences. We never were in the garden; no human since Adam and Eve has been.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So a man was in the garden with Eve which is Hebrew for mother of all.

In Post #229, Whispered stated: "Yet, Adam was right there with Eve when the serpent persuaded her to eat."

In Post #235, I asked Whispered: "How do we know this? Can you provide chapter / verse which states this?"


You now state: "So a man was in the garden with Eve which is Hebrew for mother of all."


I know Adam was in the garden with Eve. I do not know that Adam was with Eve when satan deceived her.

Can you provide chapter / verse which states "Adam was right there with Eve when the serpent persuaded her to eat"?

 

[Whispered]

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Adam was with Eve when he ate. Where does Scripture say Adam was with Eve when satan spoke his lies to her?



You stated:

Yet, Adam was right there with Eve when the serpent persuaded her to eat.


I asked you to provide proof that Adam was with Eve when satan deceived her.


I do not know of any verse in Scripture which states that Adam was with Eve when she and satan had their "discussion".

Yes, I did post what the Bible stated.

I love Young's Literal Translation because it helps to clear up matters of confusion in scripture. Like this concerning Adam being with Eve when she was tempted by the serpent.
The Book of Genesis chapter 3:6 And the woman seeth that the tree [is] good for food, and that it [is] pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make [one] wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat;

There need not be the sentence, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth and giveth also to her husband who was standing beside her.....

I think too often we expect the language in the scripture to comport with the way we exchange information today.

Adam and Eve had sex. They procreated, made love. The Bible doesn't say that. The Bible says, Adam knew his wife.
A reader looking for the literalness of a message in scripture could retort and say, that just means Adam knew who his wife was. It doesn't say they had sex!

The same with the verse six in Genesis is happening. The language is expected to say something directly, when that's not how the Bible is written.

Adam was with her, Eve, when she was beguiled by the serpent.
We shouldn't make the mistake of putting blame all on Eve as if Adam was an innocent dupe. Adam was with Eve when the serpent spoke his temptation to eat of forbidden fruit. Adam was the one God first told not to eat of that fruit, because Eve had not yet been created.

The Book of Genesis chapter 2:16-17 And Jehovah God layeth a charge on the man, saying, `Of every tree of the garden eating thou dost eat;17 and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'

 

[Whispered]

nope

the Bible is clear

not going to discuss until the cows come home

it isn't a salvic issue and I have no need to waste my time going back and forth...no offense

who did Adam listen to? his wife

the serpent did not even speak to him

it seems to me you have an opinion and are putting your evidence together to support it

I don't think you are right

let's just part company on this one, I like you just as much, but let's move on

Yep, the Bible is clear. Just because your cows have my address does not mean.....
And no, I am not putting together evidence to support it other than posting the scripture that states it.

Young's Literal : 6 And the woman seeth that the tree [is] good for food, and that it [is] pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make [one] wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat;

"with" , is the basic preposition meaning,being together or being involved.
I went with my sister to the concert.
I ordered a small French fry with my sandwich.

I respect your opinion. We still wuv you just the same.

 

[Whispered]

In Post #229, Whispered stated: "Yet, Adam was right there with Eve when the serpent persuaded her to eat."

In Post #235, I asked Whispered: "How do we know this? Can you provide chapter / verse which states this?"


You now state: "So a man was in the garden with Eve which is Hebrew for mother of all."


I know Adam was in the garden with Eve. I do not know that Adam was with Eve when satan deceived her.

Can you provide chapter / verse which states "Adam was right there with Eve when the serpent persuaded her to eat"?

Firstly, Young's Literal Version:The Book of Genesis chapter 3:20 And the man calleth his wife's name Eve: for she hath been mother of all living.

Verse 6: And the woman seeth that the tree [is] good for food, and that it [is] pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make [one] wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat;

"With" is a preposition and indicates, being together or being involved.

Other examples: I ordered a side of coleslaw with my cheese sandwich.
I went with my mom to the grocery.

 

[Whispered]

she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat ​

(Genesis 3:6 YLT) ​

​

it doesn't say "to her husband, who was with her"
it says, "also to her husband, with her"

it means he joined her in eating; not that he was standing right beside her the whole time stupidly doing and saying nothing.
Adam was no idiot. he was not deceived.
God did not say 'because you stood by and watched her eat without stopping her'
Adam did not say 'the serpent deceived me'
Adam did not say 'the Woman deceived me'

where does Woman get the idea that she was not to even touch the tree? did God say that or did Adam add that when he told her?
if Adam added this, why?
what does it tell us about Adam if he adds this to her instruction?
what does it tell us about how he viewed his relationship with her?
what does it tell us about how he viewed her character? does he consider her 'the weaker vessel' ? does he consider himself responsible for her?

"With" , is a preposition.
Young's Literal Version. 6 And the woman seeth that the tree [is] good for food, and that it [is] pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make [one] wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat;

Adam in Genesis 2 was instructed by God not to eat of the forbidden tree because Eve, mother of all living,(Verse 20) was not yet created.
It was Adam's responsibility to inform Eve later of God's command. Which he did because Eve recited the command to the serpent when she encountered it in that very tree.
Eve is blamed for Adam abandoning God's command that he received first from God directly. And yet, by Adam sin entered the world.

 

[garee]

Yes, I did post what the Bible stated.

I love Young's Literal Translation because it helps to clear up matters of confusion in scripture. Like this concerning Adam being with Eve when she was tempted by the serpent.
The Book of Genesis chapter 3:6 And the woman seeth that the tree [is] good for food, and that it [is] pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make [one] wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat;

There need not be the sentence, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth and giveth also to her husband who was standing beside her.....

and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'

They were still referred to as one creation before the fall. Man in a greater position as the loving authority . The woman used to represent the bride (mankind) as that seen, the one that submits to the head, she was attacked and not protected by the head according to the hair covering, head of hair uncovering ceremonial law . We have all but lost that kind of sign as a shadow to help make two one representative of God unseen glory .

It would be like saying they both ate of the fruit of evil. . . doing the will of another voice seen with the eyes as the lust thereof... If there was no temporal mercy that would of been the end for both. No way to procreate as one.

 

[Dino246]

They were still referred to as one creation before the fall. Man in a greater position as the loving authority . The woman used to represent the bride (mankind) as that seen, the one that submits to the head, she was attacked and not protected by the head according to the hair covering, head of hair uncovering ceremonial law . We have all but lost that kind of sign as a shadow to help make two one representative of God unseen glory .

It would be like saying they both ate of the fruit of evil. . . doing the will of another voice seen with the eyes as the lust thereof... If there was no temporal mercy that would of been the end for both. No way to procreate as one.

The man was not in a "greater position". He and the woman were equals. The Hebrew phrase rendered "helpmeet" in the KJV does not mean someone in a lower position. Hair covering has nothing to do with this passage.

 

[garee]

Firstly, Young's Literal Version:The Book of Genesis chapter 3:20 And the man calleth his wife's name Eve: for she hath been mother of all living.

Verse 6: And the woman seeth that the tree [is] good for food, and that it [is] pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make [one] wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat;

"With" is a preposition and indicates, being together or being involved.

Other examples: I ordered a side of coleslaw with my cheese sandwich.
I went with my mom to the grocery.

Yes early in Genesis the parable in respect to the bride of Christ as the mother of us all has its foundation. She as the mother of us all is called the free woman (in respect to mankind) in Galatians 4.

Galatians 4:26 and the Jerusalem above is the free-woman, which is mother of us all,

Paul as a surrogate mother suffered in pains holding out the gospel as the power of God till Christ was formed in Timothy.

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Revelation 12 in a parable reveals a picture of the church, as the mother of us all

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Paul again acting as as good mother offered the work of the gospel to produce Timothy as a chaste virgin, the Church in another portion. .

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Revelation according to its signified understanding show us in another beautiful parable in respect to a innumerable word metaphor 1444,000. God does not literally number members of the church. We walk by faith the unseen eternal.

They the new creation have not fornicated with the strange woman, the queen of heaven. . . not having other gods before our living God .Christ Jesus.

Revelation 14:3-5 Young's Literal Translation (YLT) and they sing, as it were, a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures, and the elders, and no one was able to learn the song except the hundred forty-four thousands, who have been bought from the earth; these are they who with women were not defiled, for they are virgin; these are they (mankind) who are following the Lamb whithersoever he may go; these were bought from among men (mankind) -- a first-fruit to God and to the Lamb --

 

[Whispered]

Yes early in Genesis the parable in respect to the bride of Christ as the mother of us all has its foundation. She as the mother of us all is called the free woman (in respect to mankind) in Galatians 4.

Galatians 4:26 and the Jerusalem above is the free-woman, which is mother of us all,

Paul as a surrogate mother suffered in pains holding out the gospel as the power of God till Christ was formed in Timothy.

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Revelation 12 in a parable reveals a picture of the church, as the mother of us all

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Paul again acting as as good mother offered the work of the gospel to produce Timothy as a chaste virgin, the Church in another portion. .

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Revelation according to its signified understanding show us in another beautiful parable in respect to a innumerable word metaphor 1444,000. God does not literally number members of the church. We walk by faith the unseen eternal.

They the new creation have not fornicated with the strange woman, the queen of heaven. . . not having other gods before our living God .Christ Jesus.

Revelation 14:3-5 Young's Literal Translation (YLT) and they sing, as it were, a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures, and the elders, and no one was able to learn the song except the hundred forty-four thousands, who have been bought from the earth; these are they who with women were not defiled, for they are virgin; these are they (mankind) who are following the Lamb whithersoever he may go; these were bought from among men (mankind) -- a first-fruit to God and to the Lamb --

Eve was the first woman created. First wife, first mother, Cain , Able, Seth, and others.

 

[Whispered]

They were still referred to as one creation before the fall. Man in a greater position as the loving authority . The woman used to represent the bride (mankind) as that seen, the one that submits to the head, she was attacked and not protected by the head according to the hair covering, head of hair uncovering ceremonial law . We have all but lost that kind of sign as a shadow to help make two one representative of God unseen glory .

It would be like saying they both ate of the fruit of evil. . . doing the will of another voice seen with the eyes as the lust thereof... If there was no temporal mercy that would of been the end for both. No way to procreate as one.

What Denominational church are you a member of, if you would feel free to share.

 

[PS]

In Post #229, Whispered stated: "Yet, Adam was right there with Eve when the serpent persuaded her to eat."

In Post #235, I asked Whispered: "How do we know this? Can you provide chapter / verse which states this?"


You now state: "So a man was in the garden with Eve which is Hebrew for mother of all."


I know Adam was in the garden with Eve. I do not know that Adam was with Eve when satan deceived her.

Can you provide chapter / verse which states "Adam was right there with Eve when the serpent persuaded her to eat"?

I did not mean adam was right there beside eve, further to this my understanding of the serpent, is that it was not a talking snake, snakes don't do that, but rather the serpent in the woodpile were her own disobedient thoughts.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

eat more chicken

 

[PS]

I did not mean adam was right there beside eve, further to this my understanding of the serpent, is that it was not a talking snake, snakes don't do that, but rather the serpent in the woodpile were her own disobedient thoughts.

When I said Adam may not have been beside eve, I meant at the time she was being tempted. When Adam took of the fruit, they would have been within arms length as Magenta said.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Verse 6: And the woman seeth that the tree [is] good for food, and that it [is] pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make [one] wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat;

"With" is a preposition and indicates, being together or being involved.

I agree that Adam and Eve were together when Adam ate.


Scripture is not clear that Adam was with Eve when satan spoke to her:

Gen 3:1 - Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? - satan spoke to the woman. No indication in vs 1 that Adam was with Eve.

Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: - the woman said to satan. No indication in vs 2 that Adam was with Eve.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die - satan said to the woman. No indication in vs 4 that Adam was with Eve.


You presume that Adam and Eve were together the whole time.

I do not read those verses in that light. I see Eve approached by satan when she was away from Adam ... easy prey.

In vs 1, Scripture does not indicate satan said unto "them" (the man and the woman). Scripture indicates satan spoke only to the woman. If Adam was there at the time, what was he doing while satan spoke to the woman? He heard but kept his mouth shut ... even though God had specifically spoken to him (Gen 2:15-17)?

In vs 2, Scripture indicates the woman spoke to satan. According to you, Adam was there at the time, yet did not warn Eve ... did not speak to tell satan what God had told him. Obviously Adam had told Eve because she knew that she was not supposed to eat. But you want me to believe that Adam was there and remained silent while satan and Eve discussed the very thing God had spoken to him (Gen 2:16-17).

In vs 4, Scripture indicates satan spoke only to the woman (not to "them"). So, again according to you, Adam was there; satan spoke only to Eve; satan directly contradicted what God had said; and Adam did not speak up? Adam heard the whole conversation and did not give warning to Eve?



I believe satan approached Eve when she was alone ... that's how satan works. satan did the same thing with the Lord Jesus Christ (Matt 4:1-11). satan works on us when we are most vulnerable.

Also, in reading Gen 2, it appears (to me) that God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Gen 2:15-17) ... then God made the helpmeet for Adam. So I believe God instructed Adam; Adam instructed Eve.

Then satan went after the woman when she was alone ... apart from Adam (imho).

Whether Adam was with Eve when she ate of the tree, I don't know. What I do know is that Eve was with Adam when he ate. That is clearly stated in Scripture (Gen 3:6).

Scripture is also clear that Eve was deceived and Adam was not deceived, and even though Eve was deceived and Adam wasn't, Eve still shared in the transgression (1 Tim 2:14).

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I did not mean adam was right there beside eve, further to this my understanding of the serpent, is that it was not a talking snake, snakes don't do that, but rather the serpent in the woodpile were her own disobedient thoughts.

Do you believe God has an adversary? And this adversary goes after all mankind in order to steal, kill, destroy all good things God has provided to mankind?

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.


The "serpent in the woodpile" was more than "her own disobedient thoughts".

 

[PS]

You presume that Adam and Eve were together the whole time.

I did not say that. This is what I said in response to your question:

"I did not mean adam was right there beside eve, further to this my understanding of the serpent, is that it was not a talking snake, snakes don't do that, but rather the serpent in the woodpile were her own disobedient thoughts."

 

[PS]

Do you believe God has an adversary? And this adversary goes after all mankind in order to steal, kill, destroy all good things God has provided to mankind?

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.


The "serpent in the woodpile" was more than "her own disobedient thoughts".

Satan is the adversary, and we are born with a sinful, disobedient nature far from God.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Satan is the adversary, and we are born with a sinful, disobedient nature far from God.

yes, satan is the adversary.

at the time satan approached Eve, she had not been "born with a sinful, disobedient nature far from God".

The reason descendants of Adam are "born with a sinful, disobedient nature far from God" is because each generation is born in the image / likeness of the parent.

Beginning with Adam's descendants ... Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image

 

[PS]

yes, satan is the adversary.

at the time satan approached Eve, she had not been "born with a sinful, disobedient nature far from God".

The reason descendants of Adam are "born with a sinful, disobedient nature far from God" is because each generation is born in the image / likeness of the parent.

Beginning with Adam's descendants ... Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image

If eve was not born with a disobedient nature, then she soon developed one.