was Jesus turning the other cheek when He made a whip, and kicked over the money changers tables?

[Drich]

was Jesus turning the other cheek when He made a whip, and kicked over the money changers tables?​

I noticed you have pastor/elder (or assistant pastor, youth pastor, etc.) under 'status'. I'm curious as to what you might teach
concerning your op or what your understanding of what Jesus did is.

It's simple, just not consistent with the one dimensional view we have of Jesus.

Jesus is both the lion and the lamb, meaning He is the only one who has the Authority to tell us to turn the other cheek and at the same time Judge us and our actions either here now in this life or the next. Then impose a sentence far greater than taking a few lashes from an impromptu whip.

You appear to declare yourself capable of teaching or expounding on scripture, so I what is your understanding?

post 14 kinda sums it up

And yes I see what you are asking here

so... what am I asking, and what is the answer?

So I would also be interested in why you compare these two events

If you don't mind

In the past few decades i have spent alot of time answering questions. Specifically atheist questions. in that time no one has ever asked this question/point this out. It wasn't till someone here asked what one teaching in the bible/of Jesus do you take issue with?

This isn't an issue but more of a potential contradiction. One I would think if worded correctly could shake people's faith if they did not have a habit of glancing over things/parts of the bible they did not know. In the Spirit of 1 thess 5:21 we are to question all things and to hold on to what is good. This command doesn't mean to question only the questionable it also means for us to question the foundational.

Answering a potential contradiction found in the gospels is in fact questioning a foundational belief. It is only through asking these sort of questions is it possible for you to help other over come such stumbling blocks.

 

[Aaron56]

Pacifism is immoral because it abets evil!

If, by "pacifism" you mean "permitting evil" then I agree.

 

[Drich]

If someone under our care is being hurt by another, we cannot forgive them to make everything right. We must act. Otherwise our care for them is illegitimate.

understand that the forgivness of your sins is based on your ability to forgive others. Jesus said this in several different ways. but point blank says it in mat 6:
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Again, if you can not forgive people of their sin, your sins will not be forgiven.

 

[JaumeJ]

what does this have to do with whether or not Jesus turned the other cheek or not?

Plenty.

 

[DavidLamb]

ok...

So why bring up what happened on the cross?

Because we were discussing the fact that Jesus taught about the other cheek. What happened on the cross, and in all the mocking before, shows that Jesus practiced what He preached.

The court yard of the gentiles is the only part of the temple 1. large enough to host all the people vendors and animals, and 2. the only place where the 'unclean' could congregate and have their unpure money exchanged for clean money.

I didn't claim it wasn't the court of the Gentiles, just that we are not told.

Jewish law prescribed the use of purest silver, which had blessed (Did not have a depiction of a foreign king or false god on it) the pure temple money had to be used in the temple in to buy a suitable sacrifice, or pay the annual temple tax. Keeping this temple silver (Tyrian shekel) on temple ground ensured it's purity. The court yard of the gentiles is the only place that would have allowed unclean money and animals to be traded for clean temple money and animals.

This makes a bigger problem, no? Or are you saying it is ok do defend God's honor when it comes to holy things/relics? If someone burns a bible, or if someone defaces a church, do we whip them? or if a church decides to have a yard sale, are we supposed to kick over those vendor tables as well?

No, because we are not Jesus Christ, fully God and fully Man. We are sinners, saved sinners if we are Christians, but sinners even so. We are not called upon to defend God's honour by whips and physical actions.

 

[God-fearing]

I get why He did what He did and I personally have no issue with it. I'm simply asking what do you think about his actions here in relation to what was actually done.

Remember while on temple grounds the money changers where in the court yard of the gentiles. Meaning because of the gentile taint, this courtyard would have been considered the least holy of all of the temple grounds and or spaces. Why was Jesus putting so much emphasis on where they where, when He told us previously to not pray and carry on (Holier than thou) in public, but rather go into your closet and pray.

thoughts?

Jesus is the final judge and authority. Not only fulfilling prophecy but demonstrated that those things that are not of God but are practiced by those that say they are God chosen will be punished.

 

[Aaron56]

understand that the forgivness of your sins is based on your ability to forgive others. Jesus said this in several different ways. but point blank says it in mat 6:
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Again, if you can not forgive people of their sin, your sins will not be forgiven.

Non sequitur.

 

[pinebeach]

It's simple, just not consistent with the one dimensional view we have of Jesus.

Jesus is both the lion and the lamb, meaning He is the only one who has the Authority to tell us to turn the other cheek and at the same time Judge us and our actions either here now in this life or the next. Then impose a sentence far greater than taking a few lashes from an impromptu whip.

Who is the we? Are you under the impression we are all in your Sunday School class or something? Seems a bit presumptious

post 14 kinda sums it up

Sorry. I don't see that. I was referring to your 'status' in the short bio when you became a member here

This isn't an issue but more of a potential contradiction. One I would think if worded correctly could shake people's faith if they did not have a habit of glancing over things/parts of the bible they did not know. In the Spirit of 1 thess 5:21 we are to question all things and to hold on to what is good. This command doesn't mean to question only the questionable it also means for us to question the foundational.

Answering a potential contradiction found in the gospels is in fact questioning a foundational belief. It is only through asking these sort of questions is it possible for you to help other over come such stumbling blocks.

It's honestly not a contradiction. I can see how someone who does not believe in God or a person new to Christianity might think so but beyond that? No not really.

Uh huh. So this is all out of concern for joe blow ignorant believer. Got it.

 

[Drich]

Plenty.

so when someone asks you a question like "What does any of this have to do with whether Jesus turned the other cheek or not, is your que to explain the "plenty" part of the discussion.

 

[Drich]

Because we were discussing the fact that Jesus taught about the other cheek. What happened on the cross, and in all the mocking before, shows that Jesus practiced what He preached.

I'm not saying Jesus did not practice what He preached there at the cross.. I'm saying here at the point where his passions took over, it would seem He did not turn the other cheek.

Maybe it is ok to be righteously angry from time to time no? At least for Jesus/Jesus does not always have to be this perfect picture of christian righteousness. He only need to be the perfect picture of God's righteousness.

I didn't claim it wasn't the court of the Gentiles, just that we are not told.

Which implies that it is not the court of the gentiles.

No, because we are not Jesus Christ, fully God and fully Man. We are sinners, saved sinners if we are Christians, but sinners even so. We are not called upon to defend God's honor by whips and physical actions.

I do not disagree, but at the same time why do you think Jesus set this precedent? One that is somewhat repeated in Mat 24 where a whole chapter is used to record Jesus literally casting curses at the pharisees and makers of the law/hypocrites.

 

[Drich]

Jesus is the final judge and authority. Not only fulfilling prophecy but demonstrated that those things that are not of God but are practiced by those that say they are God chosen will be punished.

So... do as I say and not as I (I meaning Jesus) does?

 

[Drich]

Non sequitur.

maybe we should look at what you said again:

If someone under our care is being hurt by another, we cannot forgive them to make everything right. We must act. Otherwise our care for them is illegitimate.

So again, Jesus in Mat 6 explicitly says if you can not forgive, your sins will not be forgiven.

How is that a non sequitur?

 

[Ceph]

Maybe we have a different understanding of turning the other cheek.. To turn the other cheek is to allow someone to insult you, and not retaliate. You yourself even pointed out that what Jesus did was in retaliation to the insult of turning God's house of prayer into a den of thieves.

It's one thing to insult a person, it's another thing to lead people astray from God. The merchants selling merchandise (along with the teachings of the pharisees) gave people the idea the God was just some earthy religion that people entered for a profit. When Jesus drove out those merchants from the temple, He put a target on His back from them. It's a selfless sacrifice of His own Dignity among men to preserve His Father's purpouse for the Building.

 

[Drich]

Who is the we? Are you under the impression we are all in your Sunday School class or something? Seems a bit presumptious

It's pretty self explanatory. The "we" refers to all of those who share this picture of Jesus.

Sorry. I don't see that. I was referring to your 'status' in the short bio when you became a member here.

This is your question:

You appear to declare yourself capable of teaching or expounding on scripture, so I what is your understanding?

I do not understand what you are trying to ask.

It's honestly not a contradiction.

Great Can you explain how this is not a contradiction?

I can see how someone who does not believe in God or a person new to Christianity might think so but beyond that? No not really.

Beyond that are those who's faith is also tied to logical consistency. Meaning if Jesus says to turn the other cheek when struck, but take great offense in the dishonoring of a physical place who's purpose was to host a co-mingling of clean and unclean/holy and unholy people. For me this triggers a series of questions, that seem to contradict several other teachings that i mention in the op.

Uh huh. So this is all out of concern for joe blow ignorant believer. Got it.

Why would you exclude them? My purpose here is to spark a discussion on a subject that seldom gets discussed amongst a mixed bag of believers. why does there need to be any deeper motivation than that? Are we not in a christian chat designed for such discussions? if so then why would you shame or belittle anyone who sparks or takes part of this discussion?

 

[Drich]

It's one thing to insult a person, it's another thing to lead people astray from God. The merchants selling merchandise (along with the teachings of the pharisees) gave people the idea the God was just some earthy religion that people entered for a profit. When Jesus drove out those merchants from the temple, He put a target on His back from them. It's a selfless sacrifice of His own Dignity among men to preserve His Father's purpouse for the Building.

I do not disagree with anything you said here.

 

[Roger316]

I get why He did what He did and I personally have no issue with it. I'm simply asking what do you think about his actions here in relation to what was actually done.

Remember while on temple grounds the money changers where in the court yard of the gentiles. Meaning because of the gentile taint, this courtyard would have been considered the least holy of all of the temple grounds and or spaces. Why was Jesus putting so much emphasis on where they where, when He told us previously to not pray and carry on (Holier than thou) in public, but rather go into your closet and pray.

thoughts?

In the Temple courts, money changers provided a necessary service: exchanging everyday currency—considered ritually unclean because it passed through Gentile hands—for the Tyrian shekel required for tithes and offerings. Jesus was not condemning the existence of this system. He was condemning its corruption. The exchange rates had become unjust, exploiting worshippers who had no alternative. What was meant to facilitate worship had become a means of financial abuse, and Jesus’ righteous anger was directed at this distortion of sacred space.

 

[pinebeach]

Why would you exclude them? My purpose here is to spark a discussion on a subject that seldom gets discussed amongst a mixed bag of believers. why does there need to be any deeper motivation than that? Are we not in a christian chat designed for such discussions? if so then why would you shame or belittle anyone who sparks or takes part of this discussion?

We might be more mixed than you are prepared for. People are trying to figure out what you are getting at because they do not see turn the other cheek to be quite the quandry you might think others imagine it to be. That is the impression I get reading the responses.

No one is excluded. This is a public forum. smh

For me this triggers a series of questions, that seem to contradict several other teachings that i mention in the op.

Okey dokey.

 

[Aaron56]

maybe we should look at what you said again:



So again, Jesus in Mat 6 explicitly says if you can not forgive, your sins will not be forgiven.

How is that a non sequitur?

For the same reason Jesus cleared the temple.
The issue is not about not forgiving or forgiving, it's about the responsibilities of someone with authority.

Imagine if one of your employees stole (#2) from another employee (#1). And you got to the employee who lost something and said "I made it right. I forgave the thief for stealing from you." Nonsense. You've just abrogated your responsibility to protect employee one and to provide a safe environment for their work. You have an obligation to act on behalf of both employees.

 

[Roger316]

Maybe we have a different understanding of turning the other cheek.. To turn the other cheek is to allow someone to insult you, and not retaliate. You yourself even pointed out that what Jesus did was in retaliation to the insult of turning God's house of prayer into a den of thieves.

When Jesus says, “Turn the other cheek,” He is not asking His disciples to be passive victims. He is teaching them how to respond to personal insult without retaliation. In the ancient world, a slap on the cheek was a gesture of humiliation, not an attempt to injure. Jesus calls His followers to reject revenge, maintain dignity, and break the cycle of hostility. Turning the other cheek is an act of moral courage — a refusal to let someone else’s sin dictate your response.

A right‑hand slap to the left cheek is physically awkward, requiring an unnatural twisting motion. But a backhanded slap to the right cheek is natural and was the standard gesture of insult in the ancient world. Jesus is not describing a violent attack but a humiliating gesture meant to demean. Turning the other cheek is not passive surrender; it is a refusal to retaliate to insult, a calm assertion of dignity that breaks the cycle of hostility.

 

[Drich]

In the Temple courts, money changers provided a necessary service: exchanging everyday currency—considered ritually unclean because it passed through Gentile hands—for the Tyrian shekel required for tithes and offerings. Jesus was not condemning the existence of this system. He was condemning its corruption. The exchange rates had become unjust, exploiting worshippers who had no alternative. What was meant to facilitate worship had become a means of financial abuse, and Jesus’ righteous anger was directed at this distortion of sacred space.

Yes.. but the question is not why He did it. The question is should he have turned the other cheek, or perhaps approached this another way? He could have performed a few miracles and based on that authority (Supernatural powers given to Him by God) demanded that they no do this.