As hard as identifying and exposing a logical fallacy.Finally, how hard was that?
Was Mary Sinless?
- Thread starter randyk
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No, all you did was BEG a question, that millions could have answered with the first line of the bible.
No matter how long it took, unfortunately, it seems you still can't understand why a clear definition of "God" matters. It matters because it is absolute necessary for some of the most abused words in the English language, it makes an enormous difference between the creator of the universe and a curse word.
What irony....
You cherry-picked the NIV.
But that blue link given for the Ps. 11:5 in your post, says what?
Put your mouse over it and watch it pop up.
Here is what it says...
Psalm 11:5
English Standard Version
The Lord tests the righteous,
but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.
Now, let's see what does Young's Literal translation tell us? Jehovah the righteous doth try. And the wicked and the lover of violence, Hath His soul hated.
And, what is the Hebrew word for 'soul' in that passage?
His {God's} soul = nephesh.That means? Soul.
The Lord God of Israel... (the pre-incarnate Christ) had two natures in union!
That is why Jesus could say, before Abraham was born I AM.
And, keep in mind. I was a Jew from birth and upbringing.
I find that pseudo-sophisticated people can not handle the truth.
grace and peace ......
The NIV is an interpretive translation in regard to Psalm 11:5.
For theologians many times see a conflict in translating nephesh as soul in regard to God's nature.
Is the messenger (angel of the Lord) a divine messenger because the ground is holy.
It cannot be a regular angel because the ground would not be holy.
The text also said that God called to Moses from the midst of the bush.
Exodus 3:6
He said also, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” Then Moses
hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.
It's just an angel Moses have a look!
As it was to see Jesus, was to see the Father, to men?
Before man was created?
And, it was only God and the angels?
To see the Angel of Jehovah (to the angels) was to see the Father.
As Jesus being God came to man as a man?
The Angel of Jehovah came to the angels being God as an angel!
grace and peace......
I gave AI a shot at defining the messenger (the angel of the Lord).
Many theologians and scholars believe the Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament is a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ, known as the Word of God (John 1:1). This figure is distinct from other angels because he identifies himself directly as God, speaks with divine authority, and accepts worship, suggesting it is a theophany (appearance of God).
Key Connections to the Word (Christ)
- Identifies as God: The Angel calls himself God (e.g., Genesis 16:10-13, 31:13) and is referred to as Yahweh.
- Unique Role: Unlike other angels who refer to God in the third person, this Angel speaks in the first person as the Lord.
- Stops Appearing: The specific "Angel of the Lord" ceases to appear in the Bible after the birth of Christ (incarnation).
- Messenger Role: The Hebrew word malak and Greek aggelos mean "messenger." As the "Word of God" (John 1:1, Rev 19:13), Jesus is the ultimate messenger/angel of the Father.
- Jesus came with the Good News; the ultimate messenger (my input stupid AI)
How much of this is anthropomorphism? You know, assigning human traits to a non-human entity?
God called Moses THROUGH an angel. No one can see God and live, Ex. 33:20, In that chapter, God spoke unto Moses through a pillar of cloud, and that counted as "face to face". Both cases are known as THEOphany, God's visible presence on earth.
Then I hereby side with "some scholars". You talk to somebody through phone or Zoom or Skype, I suppose the receiver of your call won't identify the phone, Zoom or Skype as you, will they? If you can understand that you're communicating through an avatar on this forum, then God may be communicating through that angel in a similar way.
Hi many thanks for this - yes I agree with that.
But my understanding is that Atonement and Propitiation have different meanings.
Jesus Christ? = God in Man, as a man... secretly being God.
Angel of Jehovah? = God in Angel, being manifested to angels as an angel body... secretly being God.
Jesus Christ and Angel of Jehovah each represent to what they are manifested as, secretly as God!
To the angels? The Angel of Jehovah, as God, was to the angels, what Jesus, as God, is to man.
Before man was created? It was just God and the angels.
Before man was created the Angel of Jehovah was God being manifested to the angels as an angel.
Just as Jesus was God, being manifested to men as a man.
The Angel of Jehovah was God being manifested to the angels as one of them.
Just as Jesus was God being manifested to men as one of them....
The Angel of Jehovah was the Holy Spirit manifesting Himself to the angels in angelic bodily form!
God in the body of an angel!
Angels are spirits.
Men are souls.
The Angel of Jehovah was God the Holy Spirit to be seen to angels in bodily form as an angel.
grace and peace .....
They do have different meanings, but are part of the same whole of what atonement accomplishes.
.
Do you mean to say that every time, in scripture, someone saw an angel it was only a vision and not a physical body? What about the Angel that slew 185,000, I believe, Assyrians, in 2 Kings 19:35. Did a vision do that?
" Before man was created? It was just God and the angels" I take you mean God, the Word; God, the Holy Spirit and God the Father. Right?
