Was Mary Sinless?

[Lovette]

You are REALLY getting ridiculous now

you are really getting emotional now.

 

[bytheblood]

If so, who was yelling from the sky at his baptism?

And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” (Matt. 3:17)

Was he pleading to himself?

“Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.” (Lk. 22:42)

Do you comprehend what "image" means, if not let me help you it, in short, is a visual representation of, in this case, God the Father. Lovette, you're reverting to the fetal position, you're better than that.

 

[Lovette]

Do you comprehend what "image" means, if not let me help you it, in short, is a visual representation of, in this case, God the Father. Lovette, you're reverting to the fetal position, you're better than that.

Yes, I do.

 

[DavidLamb]

, then the WORD only resided for those 33 years, not anywhere before that. The flow of time-space continuum shall not be disturbed by any interference.

So what do you make of the opening of John's gospel?

(Joh 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Joh 1:2) He was in the beginning with God.
(Joh 1:3) All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Those words make clear that before the 33 years He spent on earth, Jesus Christ, the Word, had been with God, and was God. So how can the Word not have been anywhere before the 33 years?

 

[JayWalker]

God talked and acted THROUGH those angels.

Yeah, He told them what to say.

They did not take upon themselves the appearance of God when being manifested to a person.

we see Jesus, God the Word, became a lower than the angels(servants) for the suffering of death," Hebrews 2:9.

Yeah they was a one off that was necessary for salvation. Death came through man so salvation had to come through man - Adam made himself subservient to a fallen angel so Jesus had to do the same for a time in order to whip the devil and gain victory over all the powers of darkness when He was raised from the dead.

Jesus will never even again being lowering Himself to be obedient unto death as He did at the Cross.

The Word of God taking upon Himself the image of man is not lowering Himself to manifesting Himself as being an angel.

God does not manifest Himself in the image of an angel when He needs to appear to someone

 

[Genez]

God never lowers Himself to be like the servants.

​

Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, ​

and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to ​

become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave​

— just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life ​

as a ransom for many.” ​

​

​

​

Matthew 20:25-28​

 

[Genez]

Jesus will never even again being lowering Himself to be obedient unto death as He did at the Cross.

That is why the saved can never lose their salvation.

Never again will He need to die for any sin, since every single sin has been paid for.

 

[JayWalker]

Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

And yet He never manifests Himself as an angel. Weird.

 

[Genez]

Those who b

And yet He never manifests Himself as an angel. Weird.

I never said that He did.

The Angel of Jehovah was the HOLY SPIRIT manifested in bodily form as an angel.

Jesus has a soul.
Angels are spirits.
The Holy Spirit is also God....

 

[lrs68]

"My day". Read again.

Read again where Jesus said Abraham saw it. It was shown to him by the WORD.

 

[lrs68]

And please note that there's no past, present or future for the Godhead, the creator of the universe is beyond time, it's like you watching a video on a media player, you can play forward, backward or jump to any time point, you're beyond its timeline, so is the Godhead beyond our timeline. That's what Jesus meant by saying, "before Abraham, I AM."

No one mentioned past, present, future in the sense you are stating.

 

[lrs68]

For the purpose of clarity and distinction between God the Father and God the Son, "Christophany" is limited to explicit, unequivocal mentions of the coming messiah in prophecies, such as Dan 7, Is. 53, 63, Zech. 14; otherwise whenever God spoke to his people through an agent, that's a THEOphany. You're free to hold onto your own conviction, I refuse to smudge the Father and the Son into one "Word".

The (A)ngel of the Lord is the Lord, not a Theophany and the Father has never been seen by many so it's impossible to smudge anything.

 

[lrs68]

The Hebrew "Angel of the Lord" (Malak Yahweh) frequently indicates a manifestation of God Himself rather than a created messenger.

 

[Genez]

And yet He never manifests Himself as an angel. Weird.

You just ran and his after wrongly stating the following...

"God never lowers Himself to be like the servants."

 

[Lovette]

So what do you make of the opening of John's gospel?

(Joh 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Joh 1:2) He was in the beginning with God.
(Joh 1:3) All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Those words make clear that before the 33 years He spent on earth, Jesus Christ, the Word, had been with God, and was God. So how can the Word not have been anywhere before the 33 years?

Define "anywhere". The Word was with God in HEAVEN, apparently, and according to Lord Jesus, no one has ever been there, so the Word was not revealed until it was.

 

[Lovette]

The Hebrew "Angel of the Lord" (Malak Yahweh) frequently indicates a manifestation of God Himself rather than a created messenger.

It is written in Ex. 33 that "no one can see God face to face and live", and yet in the same chapter, the Lord spoke to Moses "face to face" through a pillar of cloud, therefore the only logical conlusion is that the pillar of cloud served as a medium for communication, like Facetime or Zoom.

 

[Lovette]

No one mentioned past, present, future in the sense you are stating.

Then in what sense? Enlighten me.

 

[indenturedservant]

From a discussion elsewhere I had about the nature of Sin...


I don't agree. Jesus' flesh and human spirit had no sin at all. Jesus was likely given Mary's DNA but without Joseph's DNA because Joseph would then have taken credit for a "Work" in producing Christ. Flawed Works had to be atoned for and could not produce Eternal Life. Jesus was Eternal Life and was the product of God's Work alone.

DNA can apparently produce defective combinations, but in Mary's case it appears that God "healed" any possible defects in the order of these chemical combinations and the state they were in. The flesh within her imperfect flesh was rendered perfect as far as Christ's being was concerned.

Because human Works are carried on through reproduction, all of mankind, except for Christ, have inherited a Sin Nature and cannot, apart from Christ's Grace, obtain Eternal Life. All of us inherit human DNA as well as a sin-infected human spirituality that disqualifies us from obtaining Eternal Life apart from Christ's Grace.

We all sin, even though through Christ our New Christian Nature may prevail over our Sin impulses--not perfectly but sufficient to show the Nature that we have chosen to reign in our lives. Inheriting human DNA means we inherit flawed Human Flesh. But the Sin is not in the fleshly flaws, eg diseases but rather in the spiritual corruption.

The flesh and the spirit are two separate things. Before we do any Sin we have already been born with a contaminated spiritual nature and will Sin as soon as we are able.

Again, the trial we undergo in life is in proving what Nature we wish to prevail--our New Nature from Christ, which desires to submit to Christ's Righteousness, or our carnal Nature, which wishes to make choices independent of God, even if at times those choices agree with God's choices.

The real battle is in choosing to partner with God *always,* because this proves what Nature we choose to have and to dominate in Eternity. It is not our Sin Nature that condemns us in Eternity. Rather, it is in our choice for Christ, producing a New Nature, or not.

This makes for interesting conversation.

I have heard it taught that the "sin-gene" is passed only by males. The teaching is that females are only deceived, but males carry the burden of being the carriers of sin.

 

[DavidLamb]

Define "anywhere". The Word was with God in HEAVEN, apparently, and according to Lord Jesus, no one has ever been there, so the Word was not revealed until it was.

In that case I agree. I'm not sure why you are asking me to define "anywhere", as I was replying to your post where you had said: "then the WORD only resided for those 33 years, not anywhere before that." It seems you meant, "not anywhere on earth before that." Sorry for misunderstanding you.

 

[Genez]

I have heard it taught that the "sin-gene" is passed only by males. The teaching is that females are only deceived, but males carry the burden of being the carriers of sin.

Romans 5:12 tells us that the first male in the Bible was the original and prototype - "sin nature" - transferrer to the human race.
Even though? The woman was the first sinner!

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, ​

and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned...​

The Greek explains why it says, "all sinned."
It carries the meaning that we all sinned in a single point in time.
Indicating that when Adam fell?
His seed sealed our fate, for all people to be having a sin nature.

And, all having a sin nature? Causes all to be born spiritually dead.
"and in this way death came to all people"
We're all born spiritually dead. - needing to be born again!

The virgin birth revealed how the sin nature kept on being passed on.
It is the male sperm, not the ovum.

Grace and peace.