Yeshua said (NO ONE) has seen the Father meaning God has been seen but only through the WORD. The WORD is the Christophany\Theophany throughout the Bible. The Father has NEVER been seen by mankind.
Was Mary Sinless?
- Thread starter randyk
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When Yeshua referred to Abraham He set the conditions of the time He was speaking about. God lives outside of time but those Yeshua spoke to concerning Abraham live within a set time appointed by God.
Good, so be it. This is all just semantics, some folks are triggered by the word "medium".
".....the Son of man did not come to be served(by man), but to serve(God), ant to give His life a ransom for many."
" the Angel of the Jehovah was the Holy Spirit...." what scripture did you get that from?
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle,
and set apart for the gospel of God." Romans 1:1
.
Jesus is Deity and Soul.
Deity and humanity.
Correct?
To be an angel He would need to be Deity and Spirit (like an angel) in union, and not Soul.
Because angels are not souls. They are spirits.
The Angel of Jehovah was God. But, was not the Son.
For no angel can be a soul.
.
But is that the reason Jesus came? I believe He came, mainly, to " take away the sin of the world" so that all who believe in Him can have a personal relationship and fellowship with God, the Father. In completing His mission, He is worthy to be served, praised, worshipped, adored and to open the books. We serve Him for what He did and what He did proved who He is.
Soul is, generally, mind, will and emotions. It is opined that 1/3 of the angels, led by Lucifer, DECIDED to rebel against God and side with he who became Satan. This proves that angels have minds and wills. Also, for Satan to persuade the angels to rebel against God there had to be emotions that came into play. BTW God, the Father, Deity, is Spirit AND has a Soul. Jesus, Deity, is Spirit, has a Soul, which dwells in a glorified Body, the fulness of the Godhead, bodily.
That's your bias. Yes, he was also what you say he was. But that was not all.
God, the Word, is not a " medium ", He is God, who met Moses face to face, wrestled with Jacob, and visited Abram, just not God the Father. I have been trying, and have, told you this many times. There is no indication that the Father sent the Word for these encounters, He was only sent when He humbled Himself, left the fulness of His glory with the Father and BECAME subjected to Him, put on flesh, and was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death. Before that," Who, BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD(the Father) considered it not robbery to be equal with God(the Father)" Phillipians2:6. In Spirit form they are mirror images of each other, they are one, equal, in COMPLETE AGREEMENT.
I agree that Mary was passive with respect to Works. Joseph would be the instigator in reproduction, and this Work was illegitimate in terms of bringing Christ to birth. Therefore, God's Work was done in Mary without Mary's Work delegitimizing the birth. Perhaps God placed a perfect form of Joseph's DNA in the sperm that impregnated Mary--I don't know? I just know that Joseph's role in Jesus' birth could not involve a sexual act that constituted an imperfect human Work.
As I said, you're just triggered by the word "medium". Just call those occasions theophanies and settle it. I'm tired of this "WORD" game.
Don't you know you have a bias?
What makes the thousand denominations into a thousand denominations?
Their theological biases.
There is only one thing that eliminates the bias.
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple
must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. Matthew 16:24
And, what do we end up with today in the church?
"Bias vs bias."
Denominations.
Sooner or later, sound doctrine will confront us with our personal biases.
When it does?
Will we deny ourselves of our personal preference?
Deny ourselves, by taking our biased way to die on our cross?
To be resurrected into the Mind of Christ?
Or will we make ourselves enemies of the cross we are to carry?
Many are called. Many are saved. Called to be so tested.
After God's process takes its course?
Only a few will be chosen to reign with Christ in the future.
That is why...
Many are called.
Few are chosen.
For the time will come when they will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
2 Timothy 4:3
That speaks of the many biases of believers.
Sound doctrine at first is usually hard to take. For no one likes being told how wrong they are, when what they were wrong about was their confidence.
That is why Paul said...
"For the time will come when they will not put up with/tolerate/ sound doctrine."
Sound doctrine... Takes weak people who want to be strong done in a wrong way, and must show them that they are weaker than they crave not to be, Weak folks believing false doctrine. And must correct wrong notions. That is when pride comes in as the enemy of the Cross by attempting to counter the Truth with distortions of Scripture. All done in their emotions, not the filling of the Spirit.
If they can become humbled and face they are weak are wrong?
That is when God turns them into a winner.
But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may
rest on me. 2 Corinthians 12:9
His Power.
The power to think with sound doctrine when opposed by evil.
Tranquility and peace reigns within.
Grace and peace!
If Jesus had Joseph's DNA, perfect or imperfect, Joseph would be Jesus' legitimate father wouldn't he? I don't think Joseph played any part in the birth of Jesus, He was Child of the Holy Ghost. His job was to raise Him, under the law.
I've made my argument in my first post in this thread, that biblically speaking, Jesus must be like a carbon copy of Adam, for Adam was the only man who was created sinless in God's own image, all mankind after him were made in Adam's, a sinner's image. This is confirmed in Rom. 5:12, that sin was spread from Adam to all mankind, all had sinned, and I suppose that must've included Mary and Joseph.
And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. (Gen. 5:3)
God, the Father, God, the Word and God the Holy Spirit have the same mind and wills, they think the same thoughts. The only time this wasn't true was when the Word put on flesh for 33 yrs. Jesus humbled Himself and BECAME obedient to the Father, in His lessened state. He perfectly exampled for mankind the kind of life, through Him, we are supposed to live. As I said earlier there is no indication in scripture, that I have found, that God, the Father sent God, the Word, in the old covenant. God, the Word went on His own, with the same mind and will as the Father and the Spirit, in a Christophany. The people saw the" cloudy pillar " in Exodus 33 but Moses spoke " face to face " with God, the Word, IN the cloud and NOT as a medium, they were His own words. These are no "Word " games or semantics as you have referred to these discussions. Remember, you can't put new wine in old wine skins.
That's retcon, "retroactive continuity", a revision of history to justify a present progress or theory. I genuinely think you've taken the wrong approach, heading down a wrong rabbit hole. The right approach is to discover Jesus's quality and character in the OT heroes - Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, David, etc., reading Jesus into their stories, not the THEOphanies they were interacting with, those were God the Father.
P.S. Now if you want to say that the Word, in human form as Jesus for 33 yrs, was God's " medium " I will agree with you on that point, but not before then or after.