Was Mary Sinless?

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In fact,the very notion is actually indefensible. Because there is not a dongle Scripture that states humans are born without a Spirit.

If that were true then Jesus would not have had to say "you must be born from above", you would have already been born (spiritually) without need for a new birth.

John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'

Pretty much the whole of scripture states man is devoid of a spiritual life which is why he needs saving. You need a spirit to have a spiritual life just as you need a soul (made in God's image) to have human life and a body to have physical life. It is so simple. I don't see why it is so misunderstood.

Dichotomist Tradition hold to humans being comprised of Body and Soul/Spirit.
The Greek Orthodox,Evangelical and Pentecostal believers, hold to that understanding.

While the Dichotomist Tradition holds to the idea humans are born with a Body or Soul/Spirit. It is an either or regarding Spirit, Soul. Interchangable terms referring to a singular thing.
Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Reformed traditoons and also Presbyterians hold to that belief system.

There is no Christian Denomination that teaches humans are born without a Spirit.

Sigh. Do people not read the Bible? Have you not seen that more often than not, the person proven right, was the one who stood alone? (think of the prophets)

Your argument doesn't hold water for their are some who teach what I say.
 
If that were true then Jesus would not have had to say "you must be born from above", you would have already been born (spiritually) without need for a new birth.

John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'

Pretty much the whole of scripture states man is devoid of a spiritual life which is why he needs saving. You need a spirit to have a spiritual life just as you need a soul (made in God's image) to have human life and a body to have physical life. It is so simple. I don't see why it is so misunderstood.



Sigh. Do people not read the Bible? Have you not seen that more often than not, the person proven right, was the one who stood alone? (think of the prophets)

Your argument doesn't hold water for their are some who teach what I say.
Being Spiritually dead doesn't mean being devoid of the Spirit.
 
You misunderstand. I have never said death is the end of existence. We are not born with a spirit, it never existed in the first place to end. We are born spiritually dead which, is why we must be born from above, the Holy Spirit generating (for the first time) a human spirit within us. If you are physically dead, you have no body. If you are spiritually dead, you have no spirit. If you are not born, you do not exist. If you are not born spiritually, your spirit does not exist. Real simple.



We are spiritual beings (if born from above), we are not spirit beings, that is the being of what we term angels Ps.104:4 Heb.1:7 and demons or otherwise known evil spirits. And as I pointed out, God the Son, whom all things were made by, through and for Col.1:15--18 is Spirit (Deity), Soul (human) and Body (in time of flesh, in eternity of spirit) 1Cor.15:44 Phil.3:21 So I ask again, which person of the Godhead do we resemble?



Human life did not swap from his spirit to his soul because Adam sinned. He was always a living soul, never a living spirit.
He died the day He ate and His spirit returned to God who gave it. Ecc.12:7 But He didn't die physically on the day (as he should have, as Christ did), because God had a plan for this occasion, a Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev.13:8
Adam was chosen to be in the garden, not because he would sin, but because he would repent. The Lord was showing the angels the difference between the unrepentant (Lucifer) and the repentant (Adam). The Lord God was showing Himself to be the generous and merciful God He truly is and not the harsh and judgmental God that was being thrown around by angels who questioned His word due to the punishment of the lake of fire which was created for the rebellious angels. Matt.25:41 We see the same arguments from men today that God is unjust by sentencing "good" (so called) men to hell (aka LoF). This is simply a reflection of the world system initiated by Satan. (cmp. Lam.3:22-24 )
Our spirits are born of God, just as flesh comes from the substance of flesh, our spirit comes from the substance of Spirit. Jn.3:6 Our spirit cannot die or be corrupted. Anything we believe that is not true bypasses our spirit and goes to darken our soul. Our spirit is what gives us the capacity to form a relationship with God. The flesh we receive now is born corrupted due to original sin. This is why God cannot give as a spirit at birth and why we are spiritually dead from birth and why we cannot be in a relationship with God, we have no capacity for it. Our spirit is for the purpose of understanding spiritual phenomenon, it is not for the purpose of animating physical life. Physical life has life in itself, God did not form a corpse for Adam to enter. We are souls, all through scripture we are referred to as souls, never are we called spirits. We are said to have spirits, but never be spirits. Adam and Eve (two souls) were created in Gen.1:27 "bara" (word attributed to something God alone is capable of doing) and while not always out from nothing, can mean out from nothing. At this point, it was two undefined individual souls (male and female He created them Gen1:27) We did not know them as the definitive Adam and Even until God brought them into the world.



I am not sure what any of that has to do with what I said as redemption wasn't the topic. I will say it was God's mercy that allowed Adam to die physically as well otherwise a never ending lifetime as a sinner would have led the bravest man into hopeless despair. Adam was never going to be like Satan that is why he was chosen to be in the Garden.



Actually being crucified with Christ means we are to reckon our bodies as dead. We don't have dead spirits. I explained earlier why that is the case.

Rom.6:10-12
10For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

1 Peter 2:24
who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.

God did save us by giving us a new spirit. He saved us from spiritual death, from the consequence of sin. Rom.6:23 Now that we are able to relate to God the Father (who is Spirit) through being in Christ and sharing in His life. We can now be enlightened and relieved of the darkness in our souls, setting them free by the truth of His word and enabling us to counter the lies of the Devil as long as we are led of the Spirit and remain in fellowship by grace through faith.
Christ carried our sin in His body, for that is where the sin nature resides and from where sin originates within us. It is why the Holy Spirit dwells in our body to cleanse us so that our bodies can be the Temple of God. Our bosies, that is the sin nature in our bodies, deceives our minds and leads/keeps us in darkness for we nave no spirit to comprehend the truth of God (prior to salvation). If not for His mercy, grace and truth coming into this world, we would remain in darkness, never knowing the truth that sets us free.
There is much that can be said regarding how our salvation is worked out but one thing we can say for certain is because it rests on the Word of God, we are confident that those who belong to Christ are saved eternally and will never die a second death.

Yes, I was like you in that I knew nothing. It seems after walking 35 years with the Lord I understand so much more yet the more I know the more knowledge awaits before me. I will never run out of quetions, so many things yet to learn. We keep pushing forward to the end and in the Resuurection we will know as we have been known.

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

To know Christ fully, the only worthwhile thing in life and death. :D 🙏
I don't know how you can say that Adam was not created with a spirit. We are made in God's image. God is Spirit. QED.
 
Can you get more petty? Strewth man, argue the details, not the grammar. Give real rebuttal to my actual arguments. Show how animals have spirits and don't just give a verse that has the word when context says it can just as easily mean breath. Show how a non-functioning spirit can animate life. Show how being born means reviving something already existing. Show how a spirit, born of God, unable to die, can suddenly become "deadened" by sin.

As far as I am concerned your beliefs are illogical. I don't expect you to give answer to any of the things above because I know you can't. You will simply repeat your mantra. So be it.

Have a nice Day. :) 👋
" Can just as easily mean..." , you choose what you think it means, and I chose what I know it does. We've been over these things and you don't or refuse to understand. I have never used " a non-functioning spirit " those are your words, because you just don't understand, so it would be "illogical" to you. Again, after the fall of Adam mankind was born with a spirit that was led by the soul (mind, will and emotions), and dormant or deadened(to the spiritual things of God). Jesus , in the fulness of time, manifests on the earth, lives a sinless life, is crucified, dead and buried and after 3 days God, by the power of the Holy Spirit raises Him from the dead. All who receive Him as Lord and Savior are then indwelt by the Holy Spirit, quickening ( GK 2227 dzo-op-oy-eh-o to (re) vitalize (li. or fig,): make alive, give life, quicken) our dormant spirits. Now man is able to receive the spirit of Gods' Word and not the letter only, because of our regenerated spirits. We are then also able to worship God in spirit and in truth " But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him." John 4:23 and able to be led by the Spirit, who ONLY leads our spirits, not our souls.
 
If the spirit could simply be regenerated, the cross would not be necessary for the believer. The OT promises of God were for gentile believers as well as Jews.

What do you mean by death? What do you think that it means to have a dead spirit?
" If the spirit could simply be regenerated, " it was only by the work of the cross that our spirits COULD be regenerated. There was nothing " simply " about it. Jesus had to die and be raised again from the dead so that whoever believed and received Him would receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, who then quickens or regenerates our spirits. " For as many who are led by the Spirit of God, THEY are the sons of God" Rom.8 :14. The Spirit draws us only through our yet unregenerated spirits, not our souls, to which it is foolishness. Since spirits don't die that can't mean die as in it was and then it wasn't. I used this analogy before but here goes, it's 20 degrees out and you go to start you car. You got lights and radio but the car won't start. The first thing you think is a dead battery. You get a hot shot and the engine now turns over. Did you have a dead battery? No, but it had to be "quickened " or regenerated to operate as it was created to. I liken that to the state of our spirits inherited from our fallen Adamic nature, which is led by the soul.
 
I don't know how you can say that Adam was not created with a spirit. We are made in God's image. God is Spirit. QED.

I never did say that. You should read my other posts. Below is from post #2,224

Adam and Eve were created and Christ was born tripartite the rest of us become tripartite when we are born (the Spirit giving birth to spirit, bringing something new into existence as that is what a birth is) from above.

God is also Spirit, Soul and Body. Why can't you understand that? Just show me once where we are called spirits, not that we have a spirit, but that we are spirit beings as you claim. You will not find it. Our very introduction to man on earth is him being called a living SOUL!
 
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" Can just as easily mean..." , you choose what you think it means, and I chose what I know it does.

Strewth. Get off your high horse. You don't even look at the proper usage of the Greek and Hebrew or the context in which they are used. Your "study" is rife with errors and contradictions and is downright sloppy. You substitute words you don't like, ignore how they are used in other places and refuse to see the multi meaning of words.

I have wasted enough breath on you. Anyone is free to go back over our conversation and see how you substitute the word nekros in Eph.2:1, how you ignore how anothen is used in other places from Jn.3:3, and how you refuse to see that the word translated spirit can mean breath which all living soul creatures have.

Goodbye.
 
I never said it did. I said being spiritually dead means having no spirit, not "devoid of Spirit".
But surely having no spirit and being devoid of spirit mean the same thing. I looked up the word "devoid", and the Cambridge Dictionary gives this definition:

"to lack or be without something that is necessary or usual"

If you lack spirit or are without spirit, that means you have no spirit.
 
But surely having no spirit and being devoid of spirit mean the same thing. I looked up the word "devoid", and the Cambridge Dictionary gives this definition:

"to lack or be without something that is necessary or usual"

If you lack spirit or are without spirit, that means you have no spirit.

No, because look at what was written. The other poster was referring to "the Spirit" who is the Holy Spirit. I was referring to spirit meaning the human spirit.
 
No, because look at what was written. The other poster was referring to "the Spirit" who is the Holy Spirit. I was referring to spirit meaning the human spirit.
Yes, sorry, I see that you wrote: "I said being spiritually dead means having no spirit, not "devoid of Spirit"." That seems to mean that being spiritually dead means having no human spirit, not being devoid of the Holy Spirit. I just wonder how the Holy Spirit could dwell in a human being who has either a dead human spirit or no human spirit.
 
I never said it did. I said being spiritually dead means having no spirit, not "devoid of Spirit".
Humans are born with a spirit.
Zechariah 12:1
A prophecy: The word of the Lord concerning Israel.

The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares...


Job 33:4
The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.


We were made separated from God due to sin,which is being spiritually dead. Sin,a barrier between ourselves in the flesh and God as Holy Spirit.
Genesis 2,Isaiah 59.

This does not mean we are born without a spirit.

Watch out for any teaching that tries to say we are born without a soul.
 
Yes, sorry, I see that you wrote: "I said being spiritually dead means having no spirit, not "devoid of Spirit"." That seems to mean that being spiritually dead means having no human spirit, not being devoid of the Holy Spirit. I just wonder how the Holy Spirit could dwell in a human being who has either a dead human spirit or no human spirit.

The Holy Spirit doesn't. Any who are still dead in their sin are unbelievers with no spiritual life, hence no human spirit. This is why we must be born from above.

Jn.3:3-7
3Jesus answered him, “Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born anew, he can’t see God’s Kingdom.” 4Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5Jesus answered, “Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born of water and Spirit, he can’t enter into God’s Kingdom. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh.
That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Don’t marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew.’
 
Humans are born with a spirit.
Zechariah 12:1
A prophecy: The word of the Lord concerning Israel.

The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares...


Job 33:4
The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.


We were made separated from God due to sin,which is being spiritually dead. Sin,a barrier between ourselves in the flesh and God as Holy Spirit.
Genesis 2,Isaiah 59.

This does not mean we are born without a spirit.

Watch out for any teaching that tries to say we are born without a soul.

And being spiritually dead means you have no spirit just as being physically dead means you have no body.

Job was a believer and therefore spiritually alive. The Zechariah passage you quote does not say the same as the passage you wrote out, so not sure what translations you used but either way it doesn't say that everyone is automatically born from above at birth. If we had a spirit at birth, Jesus would not have to say we must be born from above, we would already be born from above at our physical birth.

That barrier prevents God from giving us a spirit otherwise we would be spiritually alive, to never die spiritually, and His word would not be foolishness to the unbeliever. 1Cor.2:14 You cannot be spiritually alive while simultaneously being dead in your sin and trespasses.

No-one is teaching we are born without a soul. We are souls, if we had no soul we would not exist. Soul and spirit are two separate parts with two separate functions and along with a body, make man as he/she ought to be, fully human and alive to God.
 
No you can't actually.

Like I said,you refuse to be educated through right understanding.


Your claim is not Biblical. Nor can it be sustained by Scripture.

Mine is.

Like I said I can say the same of you.

Proverbs 14:12
There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

Your arrogance will be the death of you.
 
" If the spirit could simply be regenerated, " it was only by the work of the cross that our spirits COULD be regenerated. There was nothing " simply " about it. Jesus had to die and be raised again from the dead so that whoever believed and received Him would receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, who then quickens or regenerates our spirits. " For as many who are led by the Spirit of God, THEY are the sons of God" Rom.8 :14. The Spirit draws us only through our yet unregenerated spirits, not our souls, to which it is foolishness. Since spirits don't die that can't mean die as in it was and then it wasn't. I used this analogy before but here goes, it's 20 degrees out and you go to start you car. You got lights and radio but the car won't start. The first thing you think is a dead battery. You get a hot shot and the engine now turns over. Did you have a dead battery? No, but it had to be "quickened " or regenerated to operate as it was created to. I liken that to the state of our spirits inherited from our fallen Adamic nature, which is led by the soul.
Whatever.