Was Mother Mary Sinless and thus disobeys Romans 3:23

[Rockrz]

unwilling even to read?

Why would anyone want to read the lies of the devil???

One way or the other... you will learn the truth 'bout Jesus' momma!

 

[willybob]

Jesus became flesh..Where do you think that flesh came from? You somehow perceive sin can be magicaly transferred, but you dont believe human genes can...That's very strange indeed...

 

[willybob]

I wonder if God needs a human egg inside a womb to produce another human in flesh?

no, but that was the vehicle He chose...how else could Jesus have 4 half-brothers and 3 half-sisters..figure it out, it aint that complicated.... He was a direct descendant of Adam, the 72 to be exact..HE took on the flesh of man. All flesh is related to Adam...God did not create man 2 times...However, the life is in the blood, and God does place each soul in the flesh in the womb..The soul is housed in the flesh that genetically comes from Adam, who was the son of God...Luke 3

 

[Rockrz]

Yes, that's why it was "possible" for Jesus to have committed sin... but He obviously never did.

Some folk need to let Jesus share with them how He overcame the temptation to sin cause He was tempted in all points as we are yet He never sinned.

 

[willybob]

Mathew 1 is Josephs linage through Solomon, making Him in the Royal line, Jesus of Mary's flesh did not come through Solomon, but rather Solomon's brother Nathan..They slpit up at Solomon and didn't come back together again till Zeubbablel around 300 years later..Also king Jahokiem who was also called Caniah was cursed. He appears in Matthew 1 but not Luke 3..Jeremiah said none of Coniah's seed shall ever sit on the throne..What God did was brilliant, by bringing Jesus genealogy through Nathan the prophet, while circumventing Solomon and the cursed line..Absolutely brilliant..

 

[willybob]

Here is my own argument that she was sinless using evidence

To answer the first part of your defense, I must say the bible says very little about Mother Mary for it is not by her we are saved, nor is her own blessed dependence by which matters in our faith as Christians. For this is not a debate about divinity, for Christ alone is Divine. This is just a lesser debate about the blessed Mother Mary of which we have only a few passages to look at. Therefore we must use theology in the process of determination by using other scriptures to fulfill and speak of this matter, for granted the exact verse stating she was sinless is not existing. Yet this does not mean there is no evidence in my own argument, for there is a process that can be shown and that you have the right to defend against my own theology of this, the subject at hand, which of course has nothing to do with the fact that Jesus Christ is the Only God.

But Rather, it is important to note that there is no direct scripture that states Jesus Christ is Fully Man and also Fully God in a direct declaration of a single verse, of which both are able to be conceived by the multiple verses which show so many declarations of Christ as both fully man and fully God. Therefore their is still evidence that Jesus Christ is fully man and fully God, though we can use the biblical scriptures to decipher with ease that Christ is both.

Indeed the reality is that Christ is both fully man and fully God comes into evidence in my own argument of this very case! For we all know that to make Christ more God than man is Gnostic. Nor can we take Christ as more human than God and thus follow a false Jesus and disobey even the making of the canon of the new testament, which is another subject thesis in itself.

So thus in the immaculate conception, I am stating in my own argument, that it is the Holy Spirit which overshadowed Mother Mary which was the Divinity of God. And because Mother Mary is fully human, I argue that this is where Christ gained his full humanity.



Very true sir...Be blessed in your studies....also Mary was just a righteous vessel used by God, the Roman Catholic Mary is a different Mary, Dinah, Isis, Ishtar, all pagan goddesses from different cultures personified as the queen of heaven that Jeremiah spoke of..

 

[Katy-follower]

The OP shows up, and dives headlong into a HUGE DEFENSE of something no one here was attacking

It's possible that he came across that other Mary thread (where we were discussing this same scripture), and then joined this site to give his rebuttal. These threads show up on google and we get a lot of new members that way. But it's good he's here, so we can share the truth... and for the non members that read this thread also.

 

[Katy-follower]

man from the dirt, woman from a rib of the man, surely God can do what God can do.

Yes He can, but the scriptures confirm Jesus, our Messiah, would be of the lineage of King David, as in 2 Samuel 7:12-16.

 

[followjesus]

Jesus became flesh..Where do you think that flesh came from? You somehow perceive sin can be magicaly transferred, but you dont believe human genes can...That's very strange indeed...

just wanted to try offer this idea to help, i dont know if it will " the line of thought here, is God speaks like at creation and it becomes, we know the old testament foretold the birth of Jesus now look at how His word, creates Jesus flesh in mary

Luke 1:And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. 37For with God nothing shall be impossible. 38And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. ......And the angel departed from her.


what im seeing here is Gods word is sent to marry via gabriel. Notice the angel approaches her with encouragement and assurance, telling her what God has said, and at first, mary doubts what is said. the angel remains and gives Her further reason to believe the word, explains again about the favour God has given Her, shes blessed tells her again How it will be reassuring her. He gives Her a reason to believe also by witnessing of elizabethes miraculous birth. then Mary finally accepts the word of God and says " im a servant of God, let it be done according to thy Word.

we Know from scripture that the God is spirit, and He speaks things into existance. to me, its the Word becomng flesh and the result is Jesus spirit that is eternal part of God, is placed in Her by the word she believes. so then the holy ghost comes and places Jesus spirit in Her flesh, all by Gods word of prophecy that fills the old testament foretelling the coming of Jesus, one of which is this event of the virgin birth. God always works through His word.

1 john 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

so God sends His word from Heaven, to bear record unto mary about Jesus, she accepts it, and then the Holy ghost comes because of that.

v8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit ( Jesus words john 6:63), and the water ( baptism of Jesus which removes the Laws authority pointing to His death), and the blood: ( the blood of Jesus shed on the cross) and these three agree in one.

So the Word made flesh is the prophetic word of the ot Christ to come, and the Son of God as told to mary which she accepted with faith. you then Have Jesus, the christ and Son of God, the word made flesh.

 

[willybob]

No.........only one was sinless and he BECAME SIN FOR US........his name is Jesus

He was a SIN OFFERING Isiah, Peter, Hebrews (a blameless sin offering). The lambs in the OT were a type and shadow of the Lamb of God..those OT lambs were innocent, just as Jesus was innocent,, he did not become sin. Made to be is italazed in the text and of the imagination of men...Sin cannot overcome sin, or as Jesus said; Satan cannot cast out Satan…Scripture says HE was a sweet smelling aroma to God, in contrast sin is a stench in the nostrils of God…..He became sin was an IXCLUSIVE invention by none other than Martin Luther, wasn’t ever heard of for 1500 years until Luther dreamed it up..Jesus became sin to overcome sin? how ludacris…He was a spotless and blameless sin offering, says Paul..If He became sin He would have been a spotted sin offering…offering up sin to eradicate sin?

 

[willybob]

Luther built his twisted doctrine upon RCC Thomas Aquinas's satisfaction atonement theory (the theology of the mad volcano god) of the pagans..

 

[Katy-follower]

​I did the same thing no Scripture no read.

Same here. With no offense to the OP, but without scripture it all just becomes one's own opinion.

Scripture is what we measure everything against. Everything must be tested against the scriptures, and no twisting of scriptures to support a person's views either. Anything that does not line up with the bible must be rejected.

2 Timothy 3:16-17: "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work"

We must be like the Bereans...

Acts 17:10-11: "Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so"


To the OP...

With something as serious as salvation, you just cannot take a gamble and put your trust in men, you must check everything they say. Because God is true and all men are liars (Romans 3:4). Even if the person looks holy by appearance. Appearances are deceptive, for it says that satan transforms himself into an angel of light, and therefore his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness (2 Corinthians 11:13-15).


And one example, Paul warns that others would show up after him, that would look like him even, with this same appearance as a christian man, yet they would preach a different gospel. And even if you see an angel in the sky, you're to reject the message if it's a different gospel. So never go by appearances.


Galatians 1:8-10: "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ"

 

[willybob]

Gods wrath was never satisfied, but rather the work on the cross by Christ justified HIS mercy that HE always wanted to despense, and Jesus gave God the means to do such...Mercy triumphs over judgement upon the repented, Exodus 34...

 

[followjesus]

He was a SIN OFFERING Isiah, Peter, Hebrews (a blameless sin offering). The lambs in the OT were a type and shadow of the Lamb of God..those OT lambs were innocent, just as Jesus was innocent,, he did not become sin. Made to be is italazed in the text and of the imagination of men...Sin cannot overcome sin, or as Jesus said; Satan cannot cast out Satan…Scripture says HE was a sweet smelling aroma to God, in contrast sin is a stench in the nostrils of God…..He became sin was an IXCLUSIVE invention by none other than Martin Luther, wasn’t ever heard of for 1500 years until Luther dreamed it up..Jesus became sin to overcome sin? how ludacris…He was a spotless and blameless sin offering, says Paul..If He became sin He would have been a spotted sin offering…offering up sin to eradicate sin?

2 corinthians 5:21 brother.....


when the ot sacrifice was made, the sin was put upon the scapegoat transfered onto the animal and the scapegoat was lead into the desert and released to symbolize the sin of the people.... then there was a sacrificial lamb that was spotless, was slaughtered for the sins. check out the day of atonement in leviticus 16 to understand what paul teaches about Jesus atonement. Jesus is both the scapegoat on which he sins are placed, and the sin offering spotless before God and slaughtered.

Jesus bore our iniquities is what paul is saying about Jesus being made to be sin for us. in 2 corinthians 5:21

 

[Katy-follower]

It's probably already been posted, but I'll share again...

Romans 3:21-26: "But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus"

For all have sinned... which includes Mary, also a sinner in need of a saviour.

The scriptures also confirm that Mary offered up a sacrifice for her sins (Luke 2), just as is detailed in Leviticus 12:8, which was required of all women who had just given birth.

 

[Adstar]

I wonder if God needs a human egg inside a womb to produce another human in flesh?

I don't think He did..

 

[mailmandan]

It's probably already been posted, but I'll share again...

Romans 3:21-26: "But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus"

For all have sinned... which includes Mary, also a sinner in need of a saviour.

The scriptures also confirm that Mary offered up a sacrifice for her sins (Luke 2), just as is detailed in Leviticus 12:8, which was required of all women who had just given birth.

Amen! ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) including Mary, who rejoiced in God her SAVIOR (Luke 1:47).

 

[Adstar]

The scriptures also confirm that Mary offered up a sacrifice for her sins (Luke 2), just as is detailed in Leviticus 12:8, which was required of all women who had just given birth.

Leviticus 12: KJV
1 "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, {2} Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. {3} And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. {4} And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled. {5} But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days. {6} And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest: {7} Who shall offer it before the LORD, and make an atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female. {8} And if she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean."

Once again the scriptures smash the catholic lie that Mary was sinless..

 

[NoNameMcgee]

sounds like sooooomeones been reading the book of hezikaiah

 

[BeyondET]

LOL. Really??? How could Jesus be of Mary's line if He had not?
Where would His human side have come from?

DNA doesn't have to come by egg