Was Mother Mary Sinless and thus disobeys Romans 3:23

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notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#101
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#101
willybob said:
Gods wrath was never satisfied, but rather the work on the cross by Christ justified HIS mercy that HE always wanted to despense, and Jesus gave God the means to do such...Mercy triumphs over judgement upon the repented, Exodus 34...
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2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#102
#102
ForthAngel said:
Then there is this:

Matthew 3:9
9 And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.
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Thank you for the verse, I am humbled and amazed at the level of clarity and understanding this opened up to me... :)

Have a Bless day, my friend.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#103
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#103
willybob said:
He was a SIN OFFERING Isiah, Peter, Hebrews (a blameless sin offering). The lambs in the OT were a type and shadow of the Lamb of God..those OT lambs were innocent, just as Jesus was innocent,, he did not become sin. Made to be is italazed in the text and of the imagination of men...Sin cannot overcome sin, or as Jesus said; Satan cannot cast out Satan…Scripture says HE was a sweet smelling aroma to God, in contrast sin is a stench in the nostrils of God…..He became sin was an IXCLUSIVE invention by none other than Martin Luther, wasn’t ever heard of for 1500 years until Luther dreamed it up..Jesus became sin to overcome sin? how ludacris…He was a spotless and blameless sin offering, says Paul..If He became sin He would have been a spotted sin offering…offering up sin to eradicate sin? :confused:
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My God, my God why has thou forsaken me----->Answer.......

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Maybe you should take the advice you gave above and understand WHY GOD the FATHER forsook JESUS and understand why ONE was considered CURSED when hung on a tree.......
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#104
#104
Matthew 3:9
9 And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.

What is the DNA of dirt, pretty much rock stone etc. to make dirt, two things are needed, rock and water. Thus plants can have root to grow and add even more.

Sarah, Elisabeth, Mary,

John the Baptist lineage goes back to Abraham also. Thus fitting to preform the baptism on Jesus.
 
Desertsrose

Desertsrose

Senior Member
#105
Oct 24, 2016
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#105
BeyondET said:
Where is your scripture to support the theory that God used a ovum? A Human Egg?
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​Hi Beyond,

The egg was human because Mary was human. That's why Jesus is the Godman. Fully human and fully God. The seed, the sperm that fertilized the egg was supernatural when the Holy Spirit came upon Eve.
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#106
#106
Desertsrose said:
​Hi Beyond,

The egg was human because Mary was human. That's why Jesus is the Godman. Fully human and fully God. The seed, the sperm that fertilized the egg was supernatural when the Holy Spirit came upon Eve.
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Well neither you nor I can say 100% say it was this way or that way, saying it's was a egg or the DNA within the human body that brought about Jesus the Man. No where in scripture did God say he will be using the woman egg and he will seed it. Just Like what I said about DNA is the same just theory and speculative. neither you nor I can prove that's what he used.

For me sometimes i look to scripture to answer things for me, not so much as handed to me on a silver planter but things that are logical in nature and human interaction. Thus of choice and leap of faith, IMO it does come down to the eye of the beholder, sometimes I may see it differently and somethings another may see it differently and that's exactly why a give a person in this thread a rep and a thanks post because of the verse he posted that triggered.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#107
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#107
Speculation. Jesus was fully human and fully God but the necessity of an egg is pure speculation on our part.

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Not to say you are wrong but it is not a subject we can be dogmatic about.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Desertsrose

Desertsrose

Senior Member
#108
Oct 24, 2016
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#108
Adstar said:
I don't think He did..
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Yes, He DID need a human egg.

God's plan to save the world of sin was planned out before time began, before the world was given birth.

It was all predetermined that the Holy Spirit would come upon Mary and that God would use her egg to give birth to Jesus.

God predetermined that He would come down from the heavens to become just like man, to live among us, to know and experience temptation, to live a sinless life and to die for our sins.

........... Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Philippians 2:5-7
 
Desertsrose

Desertsrose

Senior Member
#109
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
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#109
BeyondET said:
Well neither you nor I can say 100% say it was this way or that way, saying it's was a egg or the DNA within the human body that brought about Jesus the Man. No where in scripture did God say he will be using the woman egg and he will seed it. Just Like what I said about DNA is the same just theory and speculative. neither you nor I can prove that's what he used.

For me sometimes i look to scripture to answer things for me, not so much as handed to me on a silver planter but things that are logical in nature and human interaction. Thus of choice and leap of faith, IMO it does come down to the eye of the beholder, sometimes I may see it differently and somethings another may see it differently and that's exactly why a give a person in this thread a rep and a thanks post because of the verse he posted that triggered.
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Common sense and human logic tells me that since God chose a woman to have His child, He used the natural process of the woman's anatomy.

The genealogy of Mary goes back to the line of David. All the prophets foretold of the birth of Jesus coming from the line of David. God would have to have used the womb and an egg for prophecy to be fulfilled. Jesus had to be human from the line of David.

Jesus was Jewish. If He was not born from Mary's womb, from her egg, Jesus would not be Jewish and He had to be Jewish according to prophecy.
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#110
#110
notuptome said:
Speculation. Jesus was fully human and fully God but the necessity of an egg is pure speculation on our part.

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Not to say you are wrong but it is not a subject we can be dogmatic about.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Nice verse you posted thanks, I can surely see a gem in that... :)
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#111
#111
Desertsrose said:

Common sense and human logic tells me that since God chose a woman to have His child, He used the natural process of the woman's anatomy.

The genealogy of Mary goes back to the line of David. All the prophets foretold of the birth of Jesus coming from the line of David. God would have to have used the womb and an egg for prophecy to be fulfilled. Jesus had to be human from the line of David.

Jesus was Jewish. If He was not born from Mary's womb, from her egg, Jesus would not be Jewish and He had to be Jewish according to prophecy.
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I can't say your wrong in your theory, though I am 100% sure without a doubt that God can create a person how ever he chooses too, dirt is prime example of that. God took plain ol dirt and create a human, quite amazing, do I believe He can still create things, yes indeed.

but yea I see your view, though in my view I look for conformations that can be found within scripture to support views, no matter how small or big the logical connection is or isn't. scripture is good to help support theories.
 
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willybob

Guest
#112
#112

Leviticus 5:9 And he shall sprinkle of the blood of the sin offering upon the side of the altar; and the rest of the blood shall be wrung out at the bottom of the altar: it is a sin offering.

Sin offering is over a 100 times in the OT..
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[TD]Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, (not sin)he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Hebrews 10:18 Now where remission these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: (without sin) he didn’t become sin to overcome sin, only Satan could appreciate such heresy.

If Jesus became sin he would be in hell for eternity, that is where all sin and sinners go… and Jesus said there is no escape from that place..

These are our instructions by Paul, not our sinstructions



1 Timothy 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:


Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.



2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.



[/TD]
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W

willybob

Guest
#113
#113
notuptome said:
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Those are italicized words "to be", He was a sin offering, you must balance all scripture, and not take just one verse, or a partial verse, and go against the full weight of the text. The full weight of scripture declares He was a sin offering, not sin
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#114
#114
willybob said:

Leviticus 5:9 And he shall sprinkle of the blood of the sin offering upon the side of the altar; and the rest of the blood shall be wrung out at the bottom of the altar: it is a sin offering.

Sin offering is over a 100 times in the OT..
[TABLE="width: 100"]
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[TD][/TD]
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[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 100"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
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[TD]Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, (not sin)he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Hebrews 10:18 Now where remission these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: (without sin) he didn’t become sin to overcome sin, only Satan could appreciate such heresy.

If Jesus became sin he would be in hell for eternity, that is where all sin and sinners go… and Jesus said there is no escape from that place..

These are our instructions by Paul, not our sinstructions



1 Timothy 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:


Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.



2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.



[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]








[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
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Intersting post, so do you think Mary was as well spotless, sinless?
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#115
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#115
willybob said:
Those are italicized words "to be", He was a sin offering, you must balance all scripture, and not take just one verse, or a partial verse, and go against the full weight of the text. The full weight of scripture declares He was a sin offering, not sin
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You are arguing in a vacuum.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
W

willybob

Guest
#116
#116
BeyondET said:
Intersting post, so do you think Mary was as well spotless, sinless?
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Mary was a righteous woman, a vessel used by God. She was not a sinner..there are many righteous people in the bible, read my former posts on this subject in this thread...Was she a perfect as Jesus? of course not...she still had sins of ignorance, not being perfect in all knowledge, and made subject to vanity....I explained all of this in detail in a former post in this thread, go back and read it carefully...be blessed always..
 
W

willybob

Guest
#117
#117
notuptome said:
You are arguing in a vacuum.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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The rebellious at heart that love their sin, and look for all excuses to remain in their sin, will always resist the word, its their very habitual nature, they wont come to the light because they love darkness...Keep your little snippet of scripture, out of context, in italicized words, and ignore all the other verses, and then present this to God on judgement day and here what he will say...depart from me ye workers of sin
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#118
#118
willybob said:
Mary was a righteous woman, a vessel used by God. She was not a sinner..there are many righteous people in the bible, read my former posts on this subject in this thread...Was she a perfect as Jesus? of course not...she still had sins of ignorance, not being perfect in all knowledge, and made subject to vanity....I explained all of this in detail in a former post in this thread, go back and read it carefully...be blessed always..
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I agree Mary was a blessed woman for sure, though IMO I don't think that not being perfect in all knowledge equals sin. Or maybe I'm not understanding quite what you mean by that statement?
 
Crustyone

Crustyone

Senior Member
#119
Mar 15, 2015
697
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#119
Rockrz said:
Yes, that's why it was "possible" for Jesus to have committed sin... but He obviously never did.

Some folk need to let Jesus share with them how He overcame the temptation to sin cause He was tempted in all points as we are yet He never sinned.
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There is an error in your statement. Jesus did sin when he was young. Isaiah 7:15-16 says that he was old enough to eat curds and honey before he knew enough to reject right from wrong. His sins were unknowing and thereby not really to be counted against Him, but evidently he did sin.
 
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Crustyone

Crustyone

Senior Member
#120
Mar 15, 2015
697
50
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#120
Mary was considered to be no different than any one else by Jesus himself. Matthew 12:48-50, Mark 3:33-35, Luke 8:20-21 all tell of Jesus saying that she was no different than anyone else that did the will of his Father in Heaven.
 
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