Was sex Adam and Eve part of the curse

[Gideon300]

You said "such as an angel - who neither marry nor are given in marriage,"

if you are going to say angels do not marry nor or given in marriage and then claim that the sons of God written in in Genesis 6:2 were angels. Then letting scripture interpret scripture means you have rewrite scripture to make your interpretation work if you hope to justify your interpretation since it is written that the sons of God "who saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

Those angels sinned. The Hebrew word "took" in this context means by force, not that the women were willing. It's the same word as when Lot and his family were abducted by Chedorlaomer. (Genesis 14).

This is the main reason why God had to send the world wide flood. The bloodline of man was corrupted. Satan's intent was to prevent the seed of the woman being born. Noah's bloodline and family was not defiled, so they were spared.

 

[Gideon300]

Are Adam and Eve the ancestors of born again Christians only? Or all mankind? If it was a sacred command to procreate, then why did Lord Jesus, the Second and Last Adam, neither marry nor have biological chilren? Why did generations of church fathers and mothers, priests and nuns, swear a sacred vow of celibacy and devote thier whole lives to serve the Lord? Are you telling me they were all frauds? All pagan unbelievers? I'm not forbidding anybody to marry, I'm just telling you the same conclusion of the disciples in Matt. 19:10, that it's better not to marry, it'll only cause trouble in the flesh. Nobody's salvation is hinged upon marriage, getting married doesn't bring you closer to God.

Generations of celibate priests who raped young men? Being celibate does not necessarily bring people closer to God. You should check out the history of the Catholic organisation and its supposed celibate clergy.

 

[Lovette]

Paul also wrote if you're married, don't seek to be loosed, and if you're single don't seek to be married, and if you marry you have not sinned.

It is not sinful to want to be married nor is it sinful to be married.

It is not sinful to not want to be married nor is it sinful to remain single.

Then what are we arguing? Marriage is not for everyone, in fact there're more single adults than married ones, call it a tragedy if you want.

We need to take caution when considering marriage. God admonishes us not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers.

Good, it's better to remain UNmarried than marrying an unbeliever.

Do you believe single persons are the only ones who can see and experience the kingdom of heaven? No married couple can comprehend or experience the kingdom of heaven?

I believe in the word of God: "he who gives her in marriage does well, but he who does not give her in marriage does better." (1 Cor. 7:38)

Well, biblically speaking, what God ordained was the two parent nuclear family.

That satan has managed to dupe mankind into thinking marriage is as you claim (carnal) ... or that it's best to have children out of wedlock ... does not change the fact that what God ordained was a blessed union between husband and wife.

The pharisees accused Jesus of being "born of fornication". Mary and Joseph were espoused, they were legally bound and required a bill of divorce if they were to separate. Joseph, her husband (Matthew 1:19) was a just man and thought about privately putting Mary away. However, an angel appeared to Joseph and revealed to him "that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost". Joseph obeyed (Matthew 1:23) and kept Mary as his wife; and Mary is an example of this as well as she said "be it unto me according to thy word" ... which is evidence that believing married couples can and do obey God. Joseph and Mary were a married couple at the time ... the marriage had not yet been consummated (i.e. they had not had sexual relations at that point and Mary was still a virgin at the time).

Where did you get all these crazy ideas from? I'm simply saying to not be bothered with it, the current system penalizes marriage and childbearing, the benefits are on all society, the costs are on the couple alone. That's just the reality, call it satanic or not.

Realistically speaking, we're not living in the 1st century Judea anymore. Again I don't know which century or country you're living in, the century and country I live in, a legitimate marriage requires a certificate from the government, so neither wedding, copulation, family arrangement nor any angelic announcement establishes a marriage. You can walk down the aisle in a cathedral, have a priest at the altar announce your union with your husband, and escort you straight to the bedroom, but if you haven't acquired that piece of paper, it'd still be fornication.

So what's the point of this? The point is that although God joins the couple in one flesh, government legitimizes it. That may not be biblical, but it's factual. Therefore, render what's God's to God and what's Caesar's to Caesar.

The one who is taking anything personally is the one who considers marriage as only a "carnal" relationship, when God's Word tells us otherwise. I pray that you will allow God to open your eyes to the truth concerning marriage.

.

Thanks for your concern, grandma. God has already opened my eyes to not be troubled by it at all. He has taught me that singles are not inferior in any shape or form, this obsession with marriage is jsut a social stigma and a political talking point.

 

[Lovette]

Generations of celibate priests who raped young men? Being celibate does not necessarily bring people closer to God. You should check out the history of the Catholic organisation and its supposed celibate clergy.

They're closer to God than the protestant or non-denominational churches that worship marriage as an idol and preach this sexual prosperity gospel, that somehow God will reward your devotion with happy marriage, and happy marriage serves as the proof of your devotion. I'm ashamed of them, of the crooks like Joel Osteen, of any pedlar of such idolatry.

 

[Lovette]

You make far too many negative assumptions about others and far too many disrespectful comments.

Then pass on. The only negative thing is this obsession with marriage, sex, romance and the whole shebang, and the only thing I disrespect is this idolatry of marriage relationship. All of that is products of modern romanticism.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Where do your equations about Adam being water, Eve being blood, and the seed being spirit come from? I can't think of any reference in Scripture to such things, or to their having children as being born again. When Jesus used that phrase, Nicodemus thought Her was talking about a natural birth, and asked if a man could go back into his mother's womb.

If God reconciles all things unto himself through the blood of his cross then we should see it through child birth by searching out a matter.
The first thing is that it isn't by blood alone that we ourselves were reconciled unto him when we became born again,but it was by spirit,water,blood.And in order it came by water,blood,spirit.
To find the answer how God reconciles childbirth unto himself is simple.
How does seed that is in the image of God come about?
It comes through procreation of a man and a woman.And it comes in the same order in when we were reconciled unto God.
By water/man,
blood/woman,
spirit/seed.

Eve isn't lesser than Adam because she wasn't made in the same matter as Adam was, but came from his rib.They are one as the covenants of the water and blood are one.
It also isn't a coincidence that Jesus was pierced in the rib and out came water and blood.
Or the fact that Eve is called the mother of ALL living.
The life is in the blood.
That's why I said that when a man and a woman have offspring is it liken to being born again because it comes by water,blood,spirit in that order.
That's why the serpent deceived Eve, and not Adam and why he did it before they had offspring.He knew.The serpent is cunning.
They then became in the image of the beast represented as the brazen serpent on the pole.
By doing so before they bore children the serpent delayed Adam and Eve becoming born again.
Even the birth of Jesus came by water,blood and spirit.Mary who had the DNA of both her parents had a virgin birth from the father(spirit.)

Read Colossians 1:15-20 and that's how the word testifies to what I'm saying.along with Romans 1:20.
Everything which God had spoke into existence,both seen and unseen.And things in heaven consist of spirit,water,blood.
This is what it means that he reconciles all things unto himself through the blood of his cross.
Everything he created comes through spirit,water,blood thereby reconciling it all unto himself.
The essence of God,his Godhead is spirit,water,blood, and can be clearly seen if you know what to look for and how to look for it.Even our bodily functions.
How he reconciles through childbirth is clearly seen.
This is the crazy thing that is mind blowing.When he spoke everything into existence it came by his Word,spirit,water,blood and they became "flesh."
I love that.

 

[HeIsHere]

Then pass on. The only negative thing is this obsession with marriage, sex, romance and the whole shebang, and the only thing I disrespect is this idolatry of marriage relationship. All of that is products of modern romanticism.

There is some truth to your point about modern romanticism and some of these ideas have definitely infiltrated the church,

Of course there is always money to be made by publishing book after book on Christian marriages, Christian this and Christian that.

 

[ZuluKono]

In Gen 1:28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

This command was before the fall, yet they didn’t have sex until after the fall.

Disagree.

 

[Researcher]

Disagree.

Welcome!

 

[Researcher]

I wanted to share my thoughts on this @Lifted_by_the_word

By water/man,
blood/woman,
spirit/seed.

You and I are really close with our interpretations.

I believe that 'water' can be symbolic of male seed, so it is definitely masculine:

Strong's Hebrew: 4325. מָ֫יִם (mayim) -- Water

Think of the waters emanating from the loins of the Father on the throne:

Revelation 22:1 - And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

The Lamb is symbolic of Abraham's Seed. The waters fertilize the Tree of Life that produce 'fruit' on a monthly period:

Revelation 22:2 - In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

The monthly period 'fruit' get fertilized to produce the zygote between mother and father. The 'Marriage of the Lamb' is about conception. Being Born Again is a very literal process!

Think of the waters that represent the male seed of people about to be conceived:

Revelation 17:15 - And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

She 'sits' or procreates with said male seed or 'waters' to ultimately give birth. Most mistake the waters for amniotic fluid.

The 'blood' is symbolic of DNA (the Vine) on the mother's side, so definitely feminine:

Ezekiel 19:10 - Thy mother is like a vine in thy blood, planted by the waters: she was fruitful and full of branches by reason of many waters.

I think the only difference is that I see Spirit as that which 'quickens' or makes the two RNA strands of each parent combine and come alive as DNA. So in a way it is Seed, but only when combined with the Word as well:

John 6:63 - It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Thus, DNA/Genome is the 'Soul', i.e., the Spirit and Word combined that ultimately becomes flesh.

 

[Lovette]

You make far too many negative assumptions about others and far too many disrespectful comments.

And just to clarify, this is NOT about disparaging marriage, but the IDOLATRY of marriage. If you are intelligent enough to understand the difference between money and the LOVE of money, it's the same difference here.

 

[Burn1986]

Disagree.

No one cares.

 

[Burn1986]

Well, this thread went off the rails quicker than I expected. Wow

 

[Researcher]

So unless the Euphrates and Tigris rivers are in heaven, Eden was a garden planted by God on earth. Do you believe there is a Euphrates river in heaven?.

Did you know that in Near Eastern Mythology the river Euphrates and Tigris were symbolic of seminal fluid?



Isn't it funny that the Bible uses those same rivers to teach about how the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil were 'fertilized' by said rivers?

It's almost as if the Two Trees represent Two Moms that give birth to two different kinds of body types:

Galatians 4:21-27 - Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Huh, imagine that. The Old Testament and New Testament are allegories of Two Moms. One engenders a person a body of corruption and bondage, while the other engenders a person a body of non-corruption and freedom.

Two women, Two Trees, Two seeds.

The more you know.

 

[ZuluKono]

No one cares.

Got it. Thanks.

 

[ZuluKono]

Unless they had children while in the garden but I do not believe that is true.

You have to disregard Genesis 1:28 and 3:16 to conclude that they didn't. At the curse God greatly multiplied the woman's pain in child birth. I think it's safe to infer she'd already had children if her pains would be much worse going forward. Nothing multiplied by anything is nothing, no?

 

[ZuluKono]

Furthermore, if you like the KJV, which I do, God greatly multiplied the woman's sorrow (pain) and her conception (child), so it's my hypothesis that prior to sin babies didn't get nearly as large inside the womb relative to the size of the woman, ergo pregnancy and childbirth were far less detrimental, if at all, to the woman's body.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

I wanted to share my thoughts on this @Lifted_by_the_word



You and I are really close with our interpretations.

I believe that 'water' can be symbolic of male seed, so it is definitely masculine:

View attachment 296219

Strong's Hebrew: 4325. מָ֫יִם (mayim) -- Water

Think of the waters emanating from the loins of the Father on the throne:

Revelation 22:1 - And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

The Lamb is symbolic of Abraham's Seed. The waters fertilize the Tree of Life that produce 'fruit' on a monthly period:

Revelation 22:2 - In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

The monthly period 'fruit' get fertilized to produce the zygote between mother and father. The 'Marriage of the Lamb' is about conception. Being Born Again is a very literal process!

Think of the waters that represent the male seed of people about to be conceived:

Revelation 17:15 - And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

She 'sits' or procreates with said male seed or 'waters' to ultimately give birth. Most mistake the waters for amniotic fluid.

The 'blood' is symbolic of DNA (the Vine) on the mother's side, so definitely feminine:

Ezekiel 19:10 - Thy mother is like a vine in thy blood, planted by the waters: she was fruitful and full of branches by reason of many waters.

I think the only difference is that I see Spirit as that which 'quickens' or makes the two RNA strands of each parent combine and come alive as DNA. So in a way it is Seed, but only when combined with the Word as well:

John 6:63 - It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Thus, DNA/Genome is the 'Soul', i.e., the Spirit and Word combined that ultimately becomes flesh.

The first seed that came from Adam would have been more masculine cause there was no female dna in it.Adam and Eve's offspring/dna ,born again seed would have had both masculine and feminine qualities.Women have a nurturing quality, and are more attune to their emotions among other things.Those are more feminine qualities that men also have in them from female dna.
God also has a masculine and feminine qualities.

 

[KelbyofGod]

I’d actually like to see one poster say that his wife did not once use sex to control him.

I understand that you were asking a serious question, and presumably to support a premise that sex (and marriage?) are somehow bad, because they can be used badly and even for evil purposes. I disagree with that premise for multiple reasons but still would like to provide what you said you wanted... Almost ... And humorously...

I understand my comment could be used as a support for the evidence a problem, (but does not necessarily support the conclusion you reach based partially upon that evidence).

But enough preamble. Here's my "almost" answer to your request:

"ONCE, ...(upon a time)... my wife did NOT use sex to control me."

Or this one...

My wife did not ONCE (that one time) use sex to control me.

(Here's hoping you have a sense of humor)

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Do you believe that man was separated from the Lord after being driven out of the Garden of Eden?

I believe there was a drastic change in the relationship between God and man at the time of the fall.

Prior to the fall, there was no sin ... no shame ... no hiding from God.

In other words, do you believe that the man and woman enjoyed being in the presence of the Lord before the Fall?

Yes. And I believe there was still a relationship after the fall, although the relationship had undergone a drastic change.

We have no idea of the fullness of the relationship prior to the fall. We may have glimpses of it every now and again, but God's Word tells us "eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him" and "now we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face".

All descendants of Adam and Eve have limitations which were not present at the time Adam and Eve lived in the garden. And I also believe that even in eternity we will never reach the end of knowing and loving God ... there will always be more of God to know and to love and to enjoy throughout eternity ... ahhhh-mazing!!!

.