Was the Sabbath (7th day) abolished?

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So disobedience is a ok? ."

It is dispiriting you do not appear to understand one of the two core components of the new covenant. By the law being written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer, the believer instinctively knows in their mind how God wants them to live and in their heart they want to obey. In this sense the convert has been born again of the Holy Spirit. Jesus told Nicodemus ''Ye must be born again'' Being born again is not an option it is pivotal. Jesus died for the sins of those who have been born again of the Holy Spirit, for he will be no ones saviour from sin unless they in their heart want to obey his father.
That is why your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more.
 
If you understood romans 7:7-11 you would understand the need for true grace. Paul felt alive until the commandment came(thou shalt not covet, one of the Ten commandments) but when it did come, sin sprang to life and paul died(felt condemned) He became a worse sinner, for sin used that good and Holy law to condemn him. The commandment Paul believed would give him life if he obeyed it, instead brought death(condemnation) for he could not keep it.

The power of sin is the law 1Cor 15:56. Those who lived most strictly under a law of righteousness became most corrupted on the inside(Matt:23) And yet, many today, in effect preach earnestly a righteousness/right standing before God of obedience to the law. And yet, they cannot attain to what they demand of others. For they believe the standard of Christian living cannot be greater than Paul spoke of in Romans 7:14-25.

My one concern in all of this is for the humble, sincere of heart Christians who have honest estimation of themselves and become crushed by the demands of those who cannot live up to in their own lives what they demand of others. Jesus reserved his harshest words for the religious who crushed the people that way

Sounds good caring and honest, I ssy that sincerely, but you ignore much Scripture.... like the Creator;s Instructions are to just be ignored, there are 40,000 denominations that all "walk in the Spirit" yet they all teach differnt things... you know why? because none of them submit to His Instructions, if they knew the schoolmaster the professor could properly guide them, but when they are looking at their own standard and self justification, they have no basis for what the Spirit says, just usually kind but empty words.... the Messiah says the Law will ever pass and to do and teach it, say all the opinions you want the Shepherd has spoken, in the gospel of Matt and in Revelation so none can say His words are "done away (I have to mention the doctrine of destroying the Messiah words is pure evil btw)

Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.

Yahchanan (John) 14:26, "But the Comforter--the Holy Spirit which Yahweh will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you."

Yahchanan (John) 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."

Yahchanan (John) 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Matt 15:7-9, "Hypocrites! Well did Isayah prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

mt7 "only he who does the will of my Father....get away you who practice iniquity."

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."
 
Paul opposes Peter? what?

ok we can clear this up very easily:

Revelation 12:17
New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus."

Revelation 14:12
New American Standard Bible
Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus."

This is from the final written Message to mankind, it's called "The Revelation of Yahshua (Jesus)"
how can you ,revelations is a dream or vision so how can revelations be read as wrote.

ie what is the meaning of dragon, what is the meaning of woman,etc
 
Sounds good caring and honest, I ssy that sincerely, but you ignore much Scripture.... like the Creator;s Instructions are to just be ignored, there are 40,000 denominations that all "walk in the Spirit" yet they all teach differnt things... you know why? because none of them submit to His Instructions, if they knew the schoolmaster the professor could properly guide them, but when they are looking at their own standard and self justification, they have no basis for what the Spirit says, just usually kind but empty words.... the Messiah says the Law will ever pass and to do and teach it, say all the opinions you want the Shepherd has spoken, in the gospel of Matt and in Revelation so none can say His words are "done away (I have to mention the doctrine of destroying the Messiah words is pure evil btw)

Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.

Yahchanan (John) 14:26, "But the Comforter--the Holy Spirit which Yahweh will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you."

Yahchanan (John) 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."

Yahchanan (John) 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Matt 15:7-9, "Hypocrites! Well did Isayah prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

mt7 "only he who does the will of my Father....get away you who practice iniquity."

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Why do you think all manner of concupiscence was aroused in Paul when the commandment ''Thou shalt not covet'' came to him?????
 
It is dispiriting you do not appear to understand one of the two core components of the new covenant. By the law being written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer, the believer instinctively knows in their mind how God wants them to live and in their heart they want to obey. In this sense the convert has been born again of the Holy Spirit. Jesus told Nicodemus ''Ye must be born again'' Being born again is not an option it is pivotal. Jesus died for the sins of those who have been born again of the Holy Spirit, for he will be no ones saviour from sin unless they in their heart want to obey his father.
That is why your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more.

So do you honor the 7th day as set apart as the Spirit Commands? Or does your heart tell you its ok to ignore that one? After all this thread is about the Sabbath? LOL let each man choose his own way?

no

Back in those days, Israel didn't yet have a king, so each person did whatever seemed right in his own opinion.

Is the Spirit telling people to not support wars that kill millions? all for the military industrial complex financial gain and world dominance? or are they "supporting the troops?" lol most people wouldn't know the Spirit if it smacked them in the face.... most go sit at the feet of some lying "pastor" (any who call themselves pastor are in violation btw, one poimen) and "feel the Spirit" during service sitting in a building with a pillar of Baal on the roof and the "sanctuary" is built like a phonecian ship, ohh there is a spirit there alraight, and that Spirit is telling them they dont have to listen to the Instructions, just like Adam and Eve were told in the garden....


there are 40,000 denominations that all "walk in the Spirit" yet they all teach different things... you know why? because none of them submit to His Instructions, if they knew the schoolmaster the professor could properly guide them, but when they are looking at their own standard and self justification, they have no basis for what the Spirit says, just usually kind but empty words....
 
I appreciate your honesty. I assume you do not believe you obey God's laws better than Paul did in his description of Rom 7:14-25. For you believe Paul is speaking as a mature Christian where his failure to obey, as described in those verses is mentioned

I DO NOT believe Paul is speaking as a mature Christian, but of his life as a Pharisee and the result of living under a law of righteousness. The power to live an ever holier life is in grace-not obedience to the law.

If Paul is speaking as a mature Christian in those verses, grace-the cross lacks power, it does not. If Paul is speaking as a mature Christian in those verses he is demanding of others what he cannot attain to in his own life. I do not for one moment accept that is the Paul of the bible.
I don't say or mean this unkindly, but if you in effect live under a righteousness of obedience to the law-which I believe you do, you must believe Paul is speaking of his life as a Christian, for it will be a mirror image of your own life

Mt 26:36 ¶ Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. 37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. 38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. 39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. 40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? 41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. 42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. 43 And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy. 44 And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words. 45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Lu 22:39 ¶ And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him. 40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation. 41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone’s cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, 42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. 43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. 44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. 45 And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow, 46 And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.


Do you think our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was a mature Christian when He went through the above struggle? Are we above our master?

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 ¶ Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

The struggle against sin does not go away when converted, to the contrary it sometimes even intensifies. Satan is not concerned with those not in Christ, his wrath and violence is directed towards those who are. Even the Lord Himself chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. those who will not accept of the same are bastards and not HIs sons.
 
Mt 26:36 ¶ Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. 37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. 38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. 39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. 40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? 41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. 42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. 43 And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy. 44 And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words. 45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Lu 22:39 ¶ And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him. 40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation. 41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone’s cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, 42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. 43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. 44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. 45 And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow, 46 And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.


Do you think our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was a mature Christian when He went through the above struggle? Are we above our master?

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 ¶ Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

The struggle against sin does not go away when converted, to the contrary it sometimes even intensifies. Satan is not concerned with those not in Christ, his wrath and violence is directed towards those who are. Even the Lord Himself chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. those who will not accept of the same are bastards and not HIs sons.

For sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace Rom 6:14

If you in effect live under a law of righteousness you will see little victory over sin where it matters, under grace you will.

There is a world of difference between sinless perfection and where Paul was in rom 7:14-25
 
So do you honor the 7th day as set apart as the Spirit Commands? Or does your heart tell you its ok to ignore that one? After all this thread is about the Sabbath? LOL let each man choose his own way?

no

QUOTE]

I refer you back to the post where I wrote out Rom 14: 5, 14,20&22. Your response was I think. What does the creator believe. It appears you are unwilling to accept what the person who wrote half the books of the NT stated
 
Pillars of Baal on nearly every church rooftop, and the Spirit never tells any members that those pillars are an abomination?


Deuteronomy 16:22
English Standard Version
And you shall not set up a pillar, which the LORD your God hates.


steeple2.jpg




2 Kings 10:27 New American Standard Bible
They also broke down the sacred pillar of Baal and broke down the house of Baal, and made it a latrine to this day.


291123473_8de9fcd48a.jpg



or are those pillars acceptable now because what ever ones heart says is ok?

I believe YHWH wants to join with all that seek Him, and I dont believe He is accepting of what He says He hates....
 
Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters Rom 14:1

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind Rom 14:5

am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. rom 14:14

All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. rom 14:20

So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God rom 14:22
 
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned---13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Romans 5

is he trying to explain walking in faith, or walking in law , or what jesus already did for the believers.



Paul is stating that by Adams sin death entered the world, and the law was placed to show us our transgressions (sins) so that when grace has entered our lives it could abound much more. The law shows that sins reign leading to death, and His grace reigns through Christ leading to eternal life. Then Paul gives more of an answer to what you wrote in Romans 5 in Romans 6. And in that chapter he says we can not let sin reign in our bodies, and give into our temptations. Then he says in verse 16 that if you continue to give into your sins obeying your lusts (temptations), those sins are your master and not the Lord. And those sins will lead you to spiritual death, and not spiritual life.
 
Paul is stating that by Adams sin death entered the world, and the law was placed to show us our transgressions (sins) so that when grace has entered our lives it could abound much more. The law shows that sins reign leading to death, and His grace reigns through Christ leading to eternal life. Then Paul gives more of an answer to what you wrote in Romans 5 in Romans 6. And in that chapter he says we can not let sin reign in our bodies, and give into our temptations. Then he says in verse 16 that if you continue to give into your sins obeying your lusts (temptations), those sins are your master and not the Lord. And those sins will lead you to spiritual death, and not spiritual life.


What if someone joins a church and they are not taught the grace Paul preached which resulted in sin not being your master for you are not under law but under grace? What if they are unfortunate enough to join a church that in effect preaches righteousness for the Christian of obedience to the law(and many do) Scripturally when that happens the person becomes a worse sinner. Would your above post apply to someone who was not taught grace that gives victory over sin?
 
So do you honor the 7th day as set apart as the Spirit Commands? Or does your heart tell you its ok to ignore that one? After all this thread is about the Sabbath? LOL let each man choose his own way?

no

QUOTE]

I refer you back to the post where I wrote out Rom 14: 5, 14,20&22. Your response was I think. What does the creator believe. It appears you are unwilling to accept what the person who wrote half the books of the NT stated

You misunderstand that in Paul's day men were LITERALLY killed (John the baptist dad was killed for) following the "Moadim" Sabbaths according to Scripture and not according to the pharisees, the pharisees would take men to court and have them beaten or killed for obeying Scripture and not obeying their man made law.... but go 2,000 years in the future pick up the first translation you get and find every verse that the church leader can twist into ignoring all that is written and taa daa, the mystery of iniquity is here. I seek YHWH in truth and Spirit, I seek worship YHWH in the way He says, for He said remember for a reason....

4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Remember

but they say forget...Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."So what evil act is this talking about, to "think to change times and Laws..."

just another verse to ignore?

 
What if someone joins a church and they are not taught the grace Paul preached which resulted in sin not being your master for you are not under law but under grace? What if they are unfortunate enough to join a church that in effect preaches righteousness for the Christian of obedience to the law(and many do) Scripturally when that happens the person becomes a worse sinner. Would your above post apply to someone who was not taught grace that gives victory over sin?

I agree "pharisaic legalism" is just as dangerous as "licentious grace"

both are error.

but since our debate has been focused on you and others saying we ignore what is written I hae no choice to speak the side of anti-iniquity.

If you were saying if we sin one we are done and we enter in by our own accord, I would be illustrating that no man can enter in without the undeserved mercy brought to us by the Messiah from YHWH.
 
You misunderstand that in Paul's day men were LITERALLY killed (John the baptist dad was killed for) following the "Moadim" Sabbaths according to Scripture and not according to the pharisees, the pharisees would take men to court and have them beaten or killed for obeying Scripture and not obeying their man made law.... but go 2,000 years in the future pick up the first translation you get and find every verse that the church leader can twist into ignoring all that is written and taa daa, the mystery of iniquity is here. I seek YHWH in truth and Spirit, I seek worship YHWH in the way He says, for He said remember for a reason....

4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Remember

but they say forget...Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."So what evil act is this talking about, to "think to change times and Laws..."

just another verse to ignore?


God wants your heart, he will accept your praise, adoration and worship any of the seven days. A truly enlightened born again Christian would understand that
 
I agree "pharisaic legalism" is just as dangerous as "licentious grace"

both are error.

but since our debate has been focused on you and others saying we ignore what is written I hae no choice to speak the side of anti-iniquity.

If you were saying if we sin one we are done and we enter in by our own accord, I would be illustrating that no man can enter in without the undeserved mercy brought to us by the Messiah from YHWH.

Let us avoid confusion, my post was not in reference to what you wrote but another
 
For sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace Rom 6:14

If you in effect live under a law of righteousness you will see little victory over sin where it matters, under grace you will.

There is a world of difference between sinless perfection and where Paul was in rom 7:14-25

To the contrary, pride cometh before a fall, and anyone who is sure they have reached perfection most certainly has not.

Lu 18:9 ¶ And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Who was justified and therefore made perfect before the Lord in the above? Those who claim perfection now or feel the same most certainly are not. Perfection is the goal and standard since our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was perfect on our behalf, yet any who believe they have attained it, and claim it now are most certainly deceived.
 
What if someone joins a church and they are not taught the grace Paul preached which resulted in sin not being your master for you are not under law but under grace? What if they are unfortunate enough to join a church that in effect preaches righteousness for the Christian of obedience to the law(and many do) Scripturally when that happens the person becomes a worse sinner. Would your above post apply to someone who was not taught grace that gives victory over sin?


First if a person is trying to be justified by the law instead of by grace then they are walking in the flesh that will lead to spiritual death, as Paul tells the Galatians who turned from the grace of God to going being justified by the law. He tells them Christ as become of no effect to them, meaning no remission, and they have fallen from His saving grace.
Now with that being said the person who is walking in justification by the law, means they are trying to earn their salvation by being good which is not the way to eternal life. Those who however are following God's moral laws out of love for Him are walking in the Spirit, as those are written in our heart and guided by the Holy Spirit to walk in.

If a person falls into a church teaching a different gospel message then salvation through the Lord, and never come out from her and continue in those false teachings they are being taught. Then they will remain unsaved and headed to spiritual death at the second resurrection....