No Christian will be perfect on this earth, they are BEING made holy, they are not the finished article! I repeat, there is a world of difference between where Paul was in rom 7:14-25 and sinless perfection. No true Christian can be proud of positive change in them, obedience comes from faith(rom 1:5) faith given to them as a free gift, so no one can boast. The Christian is sanctified by the Holy Spirit aand can have no confidence in the flesh(Phil3:3) All the glory is God's none is ours
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No Christian will be perfect on this earth, they are BEING made holy, they are not the finished article! I repeat, there is a world of difference between where Paul was in rom 7:14-25 and sinless perfection. No true Christian can be proud of positive change in them, obedience comes from faith(rom 1:5) faith given to them as a free gift, so no one can boast. The Christian is sanctified by the Holy Spirit aand can have no confidence in the flesh(Phil3:3) All the glory is God's none is ours
nice switch a roo.
of course we follow Him and worship Him every day, but there is no substitute for what He says. we cant change the set apart day.
you continually do this, vaugely use my words to make them say something im not saying, maybe I need to fully explain in every post, got about 10 pages for each post?
I thout it was clear when I stated the pharisees tried to change His Moadim? as do the catholics and most religions....
You misunderstand that in Paul's day men were LITERALLY killed (John the baptist dad was killed for) following the "Moadim" Sabbaths according to Scripture and not according to the pharisees, the pharisees would take men to court and have them beaten or killed for obeying Scripture and not obeying their man made law.... but go 2,000 years in the future pick up the first translation you get and find every verse that the church leader can twist into ignoring all that is written and taa daa, the mystery of iniquity is here. I seek YHWH in truth and Spirit, I seek worship YHWH in the way He says, for He said remember for a reason....
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keeth
Guest
Its always a bad sign when verses are removed from their context when presented as proof for this or that opinion. The truth does not require removal of context.
When I was ten I joined a ''born again'' church and responded to an altar call. Grace was not preached, the inference was simply obey the law or you will end up in hell. As I grew older I found myself afflicted as Paul was in rom ch7. I learned of grace-by God's grace when I was 20. If I had of died at 19, would I therefore have been cast into hell?
belief and teachings are two different things.
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.30 I and the Father are one."John 10
Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. [SUP]2 [/SUP]One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. [SUP]3 [/SUP]The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For none of us lives for ourselves alone,and none of us dies for ourselves alone. [SUP]8 [/SUP]If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.[SUP]9 [/SUP]For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[SUP][a][/SUP]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. [SUP]11 [/SUP]It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. [SUP]14 [/SUP]I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. [SUP]15 [/SUP]If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]18 [/SUP]because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. [SUP]21 [/SUP]It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves
I repeat, God wants the heart. If a person goes to church Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, etc and raises their arms in the air in heartfelt worship and praise to God for what he has done for them through Christ God will accept that praise and worship as happily on any day as another. The Christian has been born again, changed by the Holy Spirit. They in their heart want Christ to be Lord of their life. They have a freedom in Christ, not by the letter but by the Spirit who gives life. God wants your heartfelt praise and worship. He wants you to take up your cross and follow after his son. He wants you to love him and love others. That is what matters to God.
It was for freedom that Christ has set you free
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kennethcadwell
Guest
The sad reality is that if you are being taught a false doctrine (gospel) then that of salvation through the Lord. Then yes if the person dies following that false gospel then they would not end up with eternal life. Lord Jesus and Paul both warn about being lead by false teaching, and even being deceived and falling away from the truth to follow those false teachers. They will not lead you to salvation........
This scripture from the Lord is misused a lot as people want to go by it, but not pay any attention to verse 27 that comes before it who the Lord is talking about. He says those who hear His voice and follow Him will never perish, but have eternal life. To follow Him means that you follow what He taught for us to do, as He says in Luke 6:46-49 and Matthew 28:19-20, those who come to Him and hear what He says then (obeys) does it.
The thing is, the Holy Spirit did write the law on my mind and place it on my heart. So I had been born again. I think you would agree we cannot put God ''in a box'' Only He can decide
I guess we can ignore everything the Messiah said huh? and just say we are taking up His yoke.... wait no that's not right:
Mattithyah 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."
Mattithyah 7:24-27, "Therefore, everyone who hears these sayings ofMine, and does them, is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat against that house; but it did not fall, for it was founded upon the rock. But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, but does not do them, is like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat against that house; and it fell, and great was the fall of it."
Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
We cant " love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might" if we ignore what He says is loving Him....
Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."
1 John 5:2-3 (ESV), "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."
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love by any other standard is falsehood, thus:
Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."
Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."
"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
Just show me where it is written in the Nt Testament that Gentile converts MUST observe Saturday Sabbath under the new convenant, if you can I will immediately view Saturday as the day I must attend church.
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kennethcadwell
Guest
Yes but what law are we talking about and how it is applied, as this is where the confusion comes into play.
The whole 613 written Mosaic laws do not apply to us under the new covenant. However the moral laws of God based within the 10 commandments do apply to us, and by keeping and obeying them in the Spirit is not justification of the law. This is the love and obedience of a born again believer. What you say and show, shows more of God through the Holy Spirit keeping you from falling under that false guidance. He will do that for us if we listen and obey Him instead of what a man says. Some will not listen though and stay in that deception, and/or be deceived.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
There is not a command to observe Saturday as the Sabbath in the new covenant.
The new covenant command states one may observe one day more than others, and another may observe all days alike. There is nothing wrong with either, as long as we are giving everyday to God. And the Lord made changes in the NT on how the Sabbath is observed, as no longer is working on it a capital offense as we see with His apostles and the man He healed, and it also states that through obedience our Sabbath rest is now in Him.
Plus the scriptures in Acts shows that the Apostles/disciples did worship on Sundays, and used Saturdays to bring in new converts.......
13 “Your words have been harsh[r] against me,” says Yahweh. “But you say, ‘How have we spoken together against you?’ 14 You have said, ‘It is useless to serve God! What is the gain if we keep[t] his requirements, and if we walk as mourners before Yahweh of hosts? 15 And now we are calling the arrogant blessed! Not only do those who do wickedness prosper; they also test God and they escape!’”
A Book of Remembrance is Written
16 Then those who revered[v] Yahweh spoke with one another.[w] And Yahweh listened attentively[x] and heard, and a scroll of remembrance was written before him[y] of those who revere[z] Yahweh and ponder his name. 17 “They will be mine,” says Yahweh of hosts, “on the day that I am acting, my treasured possession. I will have compassion on them as a man has compassion on his son who serves him. 18 You will return and see the difference between the righteous and the wicked, between the one who serves God and the one who does not serve him.
from biblegateway Malachi 3 Lexham English Bible (LEB)
3 “Look! I am going to send my messenger,[SUP][a][/SUP] and he will prepare[SUP][b][/SUP] the way before me.[SUP][c][/SUP] And the Lord whom you are seeking will come suddenly to his temple, and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you are taking pleasure—look!—he is about to come,” says Yahweh of hosts. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And who can endure the day of his coming? And who is the one who can stand when he appears?[SUP][d][/SUP] For he is like a refiner’s fire, like launderers’ alkali.[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]3 [/SUP]He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the children of Levi, and he will refine them like gold and like silver, and they will present to Yahweh offerings[SUP][f][/SUP] in righteousness. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to Yahweh, like in the days of old and like in former years.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]“Then I will approach you for judgment, and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers and against the adulterers, and against those who swear falsely,[SUP][g][/SUP] and against the oppressors of the hired worker with his wages, the widow and the orphan, and the abusers of[SUP][h][/SUP] the alien,[SUP][i][/SUP] and yet do not fear me,” says Yahweh of hosts.
A Book of Remembrance is Written
16 Then those who revered[v] Yahweh spoke with one another.[w] And Yahweh listened attentively[x] and heard, and a scroll of remembrance was written before him[y] of those who revere[z] Yahweh and ponder his name. 17 “They will be mine,” says Yahweh of hosts, “on the day that I am acting, my treasured possession. I will have compassion on them as a man has compassion on his son who serves him. 18 You will return and see the difference between the righteous and the wicked, between the one who serves God and the one who does not serve him.
from biblegateway Malachi 3 Lexham English Bible (LEB)
3 “Look! I am going to send my messenger,[SUP][a][/SUP] and he will prepare[SUP][b][/SUP] the way before me.[SUP][c][/SUP] And the Lord whom you are seeking will come suddenly to his temple, and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you are taking pleasure—look!—he is about to come,” says Yahweh of hosts. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And who can endure the day of his coming? And who is the one who can stand when he appears?[SUP][d][/SUP] For he is like a refiner’s fire, like launderers’ alkali.[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]3 [/SUP]He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the children of Levi, and he will refine them like gold and like silver, and they will present to Yahweh offerings[SUP][f][/SUP] in righteousness. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to Yahweh, like in the days of old and like in former years.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]“Then I will approach you for judgment, and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers and against the adulterers, and against those who swear falsely,[SUP][g][/SUP] and against the oppressors of the hired worker with his wages, the widow and the orphan, and the abusers of[SUP][h][/SUP] the alien,[SUP][i][/SUP] and yet do not fear me,” says Yahweh of hosts.
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Now we are back to the first interaction we had. To sum it up:
The Messiah says NOTHING WILL PASS from the Law:
Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.
Not only is nothing from the Law removed but Messiah says, "whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be...in the Kingdom of Yahweh"
Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."
Now we are under the prisethood of Yahshua (Jesus) after the order of Melchizedek, HE TAKES CARE OF ALL THE HIGH PRIEST DUTIES, which include Sacrifice and intercession, among other things.
The change in the Law spoken of in Hebrews is just that, no more levitical priest, but the Law as your and my Messiah said, will not pass, not even the smallest letter...
and this was prophesied for the Messiah to do:
Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."
and since the ONLY accpetable followers of YHWH are those who follow Messiah, there is not Jew or Gentile, back when this was all new i was surely a hot topic, hence so much written by Paul about it, but people having no understanding of what Jews back then followed - (pharisees law which is judaisim) and what Gentiles back then followed - pick any crazy pagan god, yet people taoday use this as a way to say ohh obedience is for Jews, we gentiles get to play with and love the world, wait, if you are of Messiah you are a gentile no longer, but rather a Israylite:
Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."
LOL most want to be a seed of "Abraham" but dont want anything that comes with it;
Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."
Galations 3:28-29, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Messiah Yahshua. And if you are Messiah’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise."
follow up post coming to add to this as to be a little fuller and even in explanation...
For many, grace is a hard thing to accept. Bscically Jesus died for all the sins of a born again Christian, past, present and future. They are to know they are eternally secure in what Jesus did for them. They are not secure in a belief the law must be obeyed to get to Heaven. In that knowledge is great victory over sin, and that will be reflected by a believer following the true path of grace. For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace(a righteousness of law keeping) Someone said, Jesus died to pay the penalty of your sin, and he died to break the power of sin, and the power of sin is the law 1Cor 15:56
The problem comes, when the truth of grace is not preached, but the demands of how one must live their life are. That leaves a person in the state described in Romans ch7
Do you believe if a child refuses to obey both its parents, and they are taken to the minister and still refuse to obey their parents they should be put to death? Just wondered