What’s involved in doing God’s will unto salvation?

[eternally-gratefull]

Even though the NT commands us to be perfect and holy both!
Gee, I wonder if it is referring to when we're in Heaven.
Hmmmm.

the word perfect in that context means mature.

If we could be perfect. we would be sinless. If we could be sinless. Jhn would not have to tell us that if we claim we are sinless. we are deceiving ourselves. and there is no truth in us.

Scripture can not contradict itself.

 

[PeterJens]

Hopefully, you mean repent continually ... not just once.

Ofcourse. In fact we live in a state of need and humbleness, which is close to being
in repentance, or sorrow for behaviour. It is always easy to be presumptious which
I see everyday among some people and how they express themselves.

 

[ZacharyB]

For God loved the world in this way: He gave His only begotten Son
that whosever believes in Him will not perish but has eternal life.

Sure, but now you need to figure out: Just what is true saving belief?

Start with: Is it intellectual belief? ... and move on from there.

 

[PeterJens]

Grace empowers us to "good works"...works that are good in His eyes.

Because the words mean different things, I could agree Christs love empowers us
to do good works.

The problem is "Grace" here is not the christian meaning or good works.

So this is disguised language, which looks good to the reader but is not what
the writer meant.

It is why I cannot agree, because I do not know what they actually mean,
and what I have understood, it is not a christian concept.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sure, but now you need to figure out: Just what is true saving belief?

Start with: Is it intellectual belief? ... and move on from there.

It is true saving faith.

mental assent never saved anyone. Just because someone believes does not mean they trust.

Hint, A person who says they trust God, yet lives as the world. does not trust God

Hint 2. A person that says they trust God. But continues to try to save self by works, does not trust God.

 

[PeterJens]

How many times do you have to see in 1 John that whoever sins has never seen God or known him.
Gods people do practice righteousness, Because they are his children. I believe the verse you showed. It is true, It is honest, It is from God,,
it is the fakes, the wannabes, and the non believers who practice sin, Not children of God.
So which is it, Does Gd accept us as we are. Or does he only accept us if we are obedient?
You can not have it both ways.

The reminds me of a conversation with a schizophrenic. We would repeatedly get to
the same concepts, and they would come to the same conclusions no matter what
was said, because the facts did not matter, only that the conclusion did not upset
them, and made them look good.

The bible says what it says. You either accept or reject it.

We are called to walk righteously, to do good, to be pure, holy, blameless.

The only way to oppose this is to reject the words of Paul etc.

In the past many defended sinful behaviour and not confronting it in a church
context. It was a private matter between God and the believer.

So leaders can be in immoral relationships, it is not for us to criticise.

Oddly though when it comes to marriage, people stay true. Stuff the 10 commandments,
but marriage we cannot dishonour. But then this just demonstrates none of these people
know what they are talking about and it is really just one big joke to them.

 

[PeterJens]

It is true saving faith.
mental assent never saved anyone. Just because someone believes does not mean they trust.
Hint, A person who says they trust God, yet lives as the world. does not trust God
Hint 2. A person that says they trust God. But continues to try to save self by works, does not trust God.

EG - you have just said your behaviour shows your heart in faith terms.

So we agree, thankyou. You show your faith by how you behave.
So if you believe in Christ, have been born again and are following Him, your behaviour will reflect this.

Thankyou, you have come over to our side, halleluyah, The Lord is good.

 

[PeterJens]

Trying to save yourself by good works is obviously a false hope.

As soon as you say that behaviour after coming to faith, shows the sincerity or truth
of the change, you have believed in the fruit demonstrate the type of tree planted.

Let me put this another way. If I come to faith in Christ, trust in the cross and have
repented, confessed and walked in Christs forgiveness and love I am saved.

If I subsequently believe I need to obey Christ, for some I show I am not really saved, or
I have lost my salvation. What happens if many years later I change my conviction, and
believe my behaviour does not matter, I am saved no matter what, am I now saved truly,
ie regained my salvation, or had I never lost it.

This is the type of dilemma this nitpicking creates. The truth is these people hate their
legalistic past in the church and anything that condemns people from their past as evil
hypocrites is fine by them.

The casualty is the whole church then comes under condemnation as lost, and in particular
members on cc who do not agree with their theological take on faith. What a surprise, lol.

But then cultists have always been this way.

 

[PeterJens]

Because of you I will rebuke your descendants; I will smear on your faces the dung from your festival sacrifices, and you will be carried off with it.
Malachi 2:3

And now, you priests, this warning is for you. If you do not listen, and if you do not resolve to honor my name,” says the Lord Almighty, “I will send a curse on you, and I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have already cursed them, because you have not resolved to honor me.
Malachi 2:1-2

They will die of deadly diseases. They will not be mourned or buried but will be like dung lying on the ground. They will perish by sword and famine, and their dead bodies will become food for the birds and the wild animals.
Jeremiah 16:4

The Lord has brought judgement on many peoples and situations.
He is never ignorant of sin and evil, of the intentions of the heart.

It seems those who claim to know Jesus well disregard what righteousness
means and tempts to the Lord to judgement.

Even Paul warned the churches not to test the Lord.
But there is no fear, because for some fear is now no longer necessary because
God ignores their sin, because they cannot help sinning all the time

You have wearied the Lord with your words.
“How have we wearied him?” you ask.
By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”

Malachi 2:17

So remember who you have trusted and what His ways are, because he
shows no partiality, ever.

 

[PeterJens]

O
Imagine this O is a person. If this person goes through life taking positions but
never letting things get to them, they will never change.

Jesus called us to have hearts of flesh, sensitive souls who express love and grace.
It means we change when challenged, we listen when good points are made and we
grow in the love of God as he moves.

If on the other hand someone responds to nothing, and returns not taking anything
new into account, their hearts are hard, bone dry and nothing can get to them.
Unfortunately neither can God.

Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
Rev 3:20

Unless you invite Christ in, nothing can get through, and you will be destroyed.

Moses described the people of Israel this way

For I know how rebellious and stiff-necked you are. If you have been rebellious against the Lord while I am still alive and with you, how much more will you rebel after I die!
Deut 31:27

The church is full of those who refuse to even look at Gods commands and heart,
because though they have entered the fellowship of believers it is not by the gate.

 

[PeterJens]

You never respond to issues, And you always blame shift.

I respond to issues all the time, and I do not blame others.

If you cannot raise an issue properly, it does not actually exist, so raise
your issues, accuser ... never thought someone would take the role of
an accuser so 100% accurately.

 

[Stephen63]

EG, both pj and steph have been reported. Probably best to just ignore them as all they do is attempt to cause discord.

Good.....records of false reports are also kept to see who causes trouble. The Admins are smarter than you give them credit for.

 

[Stephen63]

Um, if your not grace alone, Your not born again.

So your whole reasoning is flawed.

If it is grace, it is NOT OF WORKS, otherwise grace is NO LONGER GRACE.

Grace minus works is grace alone

Takes those words, chew on them, fathom them, and then pray God will help you understand them.

I remember a while back you personally telling me you didn't believe in hypergrace.....& now you do? Don't even bother to say these two aren't the same.

 

[ZacharyB]

Uhhh, there is. Sin vs Jesus.

Do you realize that we were given our new nature ...
to set us free from being slaves of sin ... now, we don't need to sin!
(Not to mention we also have the Holy Spirit to help us.)
That's why Paul said:
CHOOSE to not be a slave of sin because if you are, you lose eternal life!
(Romans 6, that dreaded chapter which few seem to understand).

 

[ZacharyB]

Help me understand you.

Dis is unbelievable.
ALL I am saying ALL of the time is ... (are you paying attention?) ...
... believers who are involved in habitual unrepentant sin are on their way to hell.

Dis is it ... I'm saying nothing else.

 

[ZacharyB]

You cannot follow Christ without denying yourself and carrying your cross.

Thou leftist one out ... He and others did not count the cost.

Jesus instructed such and so: count the cost of denying your life and carrying your cross!

If I remember correctly, we are to do this before even starting to find the narrow path.
But, who's counting anyway?

 

[ZacharyB]

A person that says they trust God,
but continues to try to save self by works, does not trust God.

I trust God to save me, IF I co-operate with the Holy Spirit
which includes repenting of my on-going sins.

By keeping (obeying) Jesus' commands, I prove that I love Him.

Who cares, you say ... I'm going to heaven whether I love Jesus or not.
BTW, ditto for being His friend.

Who cares, you say ... I'm going to heaven whether I'm Jesus' friend or not.

You will see that going to heaven depends on this relationship!

 

[Blain]

I trust God to save me, IF I co-operate with the Holy Spirit
which includes repenting of my on-going sins.

Repentance is good but never forget to remember the difference in repenting with works and a repentant heart. Even I ask for forgiveness when I feel bad but a repentant heart is one that understands grace and truly trusts him

 

[followjesus]

well since no one thinks anyone can be saved apart from repentance. Then it would not be for anyone.

lol when you guys insist that no one really ever stops sinning yet well all be saved. that is grace apart from repentance. Grace is not a get out of jail free card, it is the very thing that teaches us TO REPENT OF SIN, and to LIVE UPRIGHT GODLY LIVE NOW, ON EARTH while we wait for the return Of Jesus. where is the teaching in the bible that" no one really ever stops sinning? or that repentance really doesnt mean to stop acting in sin? the magic grace gospel, teaches that. but the bible doesnt. Jesus gave us everything we need to repent of sin, and live actually act in His righteosness. anyone who sins is a slave to sin<< Jesus words. pauls words?

romans 6:16 "Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?"

pauls words ephesians 5:3-7 "But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[SUP]a[/SUP]6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them."

Jesus words " unless you repent, you too will all perish"

Paul...1 corinthians 6:9-10 "Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[SUP]a[/SUP]10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

johns words 1 john 3:7-10 "Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister."


i guess the gog folks are wiser than Jesus, paul, John, james, the holy prophets, Peter n them.......in what realm of reality do these scripture not apply to the church? and what reality are they not talking about our actions? not saying Jesus is Lord and grace is God...but actually Hiw we Live? you want Gods grace?

titus 2:11-15 "For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,13while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Our Savior, Jesus Christ,14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good."


is a person who lives an upright Godly Life just a sinner in your mind? you absolutely need to accept that God has provided everything we need to actually Live as Jesus taught us to Live not as sinners any longer but Godly, righteous Lives in HONOR of Jesus whop died to give us that, and THAT part is what saves.

2 peter 1:3 "His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness."

how is the "real interpretation" No one really ever stops sinning? its the grace lens you folks trust in, the grace that omits the word of God that is the only thing that saves. repentance will never come until we accept that were commanded to repent and Live opur Lives in Christ, not just think our lives in christ, but actually learn from Him, and put what He teaches into practice Like He says to do. i feel terrible for people decieved By the "grace lens" its the same Lens the serpent gave to eve.....that one didnt work out too well though, created a huge problem even brought death

 

[Skinski7]

What's involved?

Being a doer and not a hearer only. Ie. Obedience from the heart having laid aside all wickedness.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

It is only through the transormation wrought via the grace of God when we die with Him, and thus become living sacrifices, that we may discern the will of God.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.