What about those who cannot believe in God?
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John 3: 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
It's not that they fail to believe in God but that they do not like what they believe of God. Men do not like to be confronted with their sin and the certain penalty of that sin.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
It's not that they fail to believe in God but that they do not like what they believe of God. Men do not like to be confronted with their sin and the certain penalty of that sin.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
P
pottersclay
Guest
It's not about the morally good, nor is it about those who are known for good deeds. It's about those who are found in Christ Jesus.
Those who find their self in need of a savior.
Our good deeds and thoughts are as filthy rags to God. Jesus said that no one but the father is good.
Salvation is not obtained by merit but it is a free gift from God. Paid for by the blood of the lamb.
Those who find their self in need of a savior.
Our good deeds and thoughts are as filthy rags to God. Jesus said that no one but the father is good.
Salvation is not obtained by merit but it is a free gift from God. Paid for by the blood of the lamb.
Who says they are good? Certainly NOT the Bible:
Romans 3:10-12 English Standard Version (ESV)
10 as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
Luke 18:19 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good butOne, that is, God.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 New King James Version (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good
And does not sin.
Psalm 14 English Standard Version (ESV)
The Fool Says, There Is No God
To the choirmaster. Of David.
14 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds;
there is none who does good.
2 The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man,
to see if there are any who understand,[a]
who seek after God.
3 They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
there is none who does good,
not even one.
There are PLENTY more.
Jesus declared that only God is Good.... I believe Him...
Now we as humans can observe other people and some of them can look to us as being far better people then we are.. But our measure is relative to ourselves, not the same as Gods Absolute measure..
The real draw of God is His message.. Those who love His message will be drawn into belief and those who have a disagreement with the message will often end up disbelieving in God..
When you think of it believing in an all powerful God that you hate would eventually send one insane because they would know they where doomed to face the terrible judgement that God will meet out on the day of Judgement..
So disagreement with God leads to disbelief in God.. If a person believes God does not exist that to a certain extent frees them from the dread of facing Gods judgement.. There are a lot of people who state they disbelieve in God but they strangely get very upset and emotional when the topic of God comes up... So deep down somewhere in their sub conscience they probably do know that God exists, even though they have brainwashed themselves on the surface to think He does not exist..
I think what you really want to know, and what those "good" people want to know is, can they go to heaven even if they don't believe in God? My question back to you is, why would anyone want to go to God's dwelling place if/when they deny that He even exists in the first place? It seems quite an illogical proposition. It is like they are saying, "I don't believe in God, but I want to crash His party." God does not allow party crashers. How could He consider them good?
K
KnowMe
Guest
The best you can do is be their friends. you never know you may rub off on them. I have friends who don’t believe but they are still my friends regardless.
Others have addressed this from a biblical perspective already, but I'll come at it from a different angle...
Please define "morally good".
H
Hevosmies358
Guest
Those people would be unsaved.
We are not saved by our morality, even one sin is enough to damn a personal. One willful defiant act of rebellion against God and one is cut off. This is why we need Jesus, to be the mediator of the new covenant (which is in His blood)
They have no faith. The gift was not given. Preach the gospel, plant the seed. pray God gives it growth.
I am suspicious that the truth about someone who says "I really want to believe in God but I just can't" is very different from what they say.
They can try a little harder. Creation is clear evidence of God. The Natural Laws and the mathematical precision within them is even clearer evidence of the Divine Mathematician. And God says that they are without excuse. See Romans 1.
Revelation
3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if ANY man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
People fail to hear because they REFUSE to listen.
Are we listening to God's truth, or men's "excuses"?
We can be sure that no man will have an excuse at the White Throne Judgement. They may think they will. They may trick you into believing they will. But they won't.
Everyone knows there Is a GOD,the creation Itself declares It so then there Is only one reason to be excused for some people and that Is sin Is not Imputed where there Is no law which means before sin was Imputed that person was either to young to know what they were doing Is wrong or maybe they were born with some kind of debilitating physical sickness that caused them to not develope enough In their brain to know what right and wrong Is.
Romans 2:12-15
King James Version
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their
hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
King James Version
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their
hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.Evangelicals find honest skeptics a threat to their faith. So they disingenuously try to remove the threat by imputing intellectual dishonesty to honest seekers who just find the evidence for evolution for more convincing than what they perceive as crude and implausible biblical creation myths and who view the Bible as full of contradictions, historical errors, and legends. Most of them have never seen a provable miracle and they reason that if God can't do it now, there is no reason to believe that He performed even greater miracles in ancient Israel. They look at the lives of professing Christians and see no evidence of spiritual transformation that warrants further investigation. Such honest skeptics create problems for the wannabe Christian witness, but the potential to lead them to Christ must begin with a humble acknowledgement that we often have no idea why they can't experience the Holy Spirit drawing them to Himself.
maybe 'evangelicals' aren't so much exercising some sort of defense mechanism as they are believing Romans 1?
- 1:19 -- what can be known of God is plain to all
- 1:20 -- so men are without excuse
- 1:21 -- because people reject God, their hearts are darkened & their thinking made futile
- 1:22 -- they become fools, tho they believe themselves wise
- 1:23 -- they give their adulation to created things ((such as themselves, their own thinking and humanist philosophies))
- 1:24 -- because of this, in judgement God gives them over to debase themselves, to their shame
- 1:25 -- they exchange the truth about God for lies
- 1:26 -- they are therefore corrupted
- 1:27 -- shamelessly so, boldly so, incurring wrath and receiving a deserved penalty within themselves
- 1:28 -- God gives them over to a debased mind: corrupt in thought and dark in understanding ((yet still thinking themselves wise & honorable))
- 1:29-32 -- with hearts full of all kinds of wickedness and hands guilty of the same
"honest skeptics" are indeed honest: to the degree that their darkened understandings, foolish hearts and corrupt minds allow themselves to be. a person who believes wholeheartedly a lie, even when he speaks honestly, is speaking falsely.
what do we say about 'believers' who become filled with doubts when they chase physical miracles, and do not find them?
do we say their understanding is full, and their hearts are set on the right things?
is the same not true for unbelievers if they say, because we have not seen signs? or if they say they have a higher wisdom?
do we say such people have clear thinking and that they reject God out of accurate knowledge of Him?
the Bible says such people lack understanding, operate within debased, confused minds, lack discernment and are both dead & blind to spiritual things.
what do we do with a sick, infected person, delirious with fever? do we trust their judgement? do we yell at them GET BETTER YOU IDIOT!! ?
we treat them tenderly, giving them medicine, offering them rest, and despite their rants, try to care for them even if it is against their confused will, for their good. maybe we ought to treat the spiritually sick like this as well, recognizing their state for what it really is -- with gentleness, mercy and compassion...?
That is hardly the case, since Christians are not looking to skeptics to establish their faith.
And skeptics are essentially dishonest, since they must either believe the record that God has given of His Son, or disbelieve it. But it is wilful blindness , since there is sufficient internal evidence within the Bible that it is divine revelation. This is similar to the unbelief of the enemies of Christ, who had all the evidence before their eyes but were wilfully blind. And when that happened they were judicially blinded by God.
Even Pontius Pilate -- who was probably a skeptic --had to admit regarding Christ "I find no fault in this Man". And it is the Man Christ Jesus whom skeptics have to deal with, and before whom they will stand on Judgment Day.
Not the case. Its skeptics that find honest evangelicals a threat to their disbelief.
Evangelicals will just state the Word of God, that skeptics cannot gainsay. No matter what a skeptic says, their futile opinion just cant match what God has said. The Lord will say this truth (insert scripture here) and the skeptic will just weasel their way around what God says, and say yea but...no but, yes, but but but ...
Jesus didnt have to prove himself to satan. He just said it is written...and the devil had to leave him alone.
The devil is like a vampire that gets caught in the sun...and then you see what a pathetic creature he really is.
People love darkness cos their deeds are evil. If they get exposed they not gonna like it so they prefer to hide its like out of sight, out of mind. But think of it like this...you have a wound, are you going to be too proud and say well I'm ok I dont need any help and no healing thanks Im good I'd rather just stay bruised and battered thanks.
Those of us who know God and follow Jesus are like ..what, why would you prefer to dine on crumbs when you could have a feast?!
Evangelicals will just state the Word of God, that skeptics cannot gainsay. No matter what a skeptic says, their futile opinion just cant match what God has said. The Lord will say this truth (insert scripture here) and the skeptic will just weasel their way around what God says, and say yea but...no but, yes, but but but ...
Jesus didnt have to prove himself to satan. He just said it is written...and the devil had to leave him alone.
The devil is like a vampire that gets caught in the sun...and then you see what a pathetic creature he really is.
People love darkness cos their deeds are evil. If they get exposed they not gonna like it so they prefer to hide its like out of sight, out of mind. But think of it like this...you have a wound, are you going to be too proud and say well I'm ok I dont need any help and no healing thanks Im good I'd rather just stay bruised and battered thanks.
Those of us who know God and follow Jesus are like ..what, why would you prefer to dine on crumbs when you could have a feast?!