What does it mean that we are saved by grace alone?

[RedTent]

Each can determine for themselves if the Scriptures given illustrate the point presented.


Perhaps you should take the time required to carefully study this,
and then get back to me.

I am amazed!! I only glanced at the study, for it seemed to say that Lev. gave the beginnings of what Christ did. Is that what it says? That has been my understanding when I have studied Leviticus, do we actually agree? Is the OT scripture truth and the NT scripture truth, both saying we have one God, a unit? Can we always find Christ in the OT when we read it in spirit and truth?

 

[Elin]

I am amazed!! I only glanced at the study, for it seemed to say that Lev. gave the beginnings of what Christ did. Is that what it says? That has been my understanding when I have studied Leviticus, do we actually agree? Is the OT scripture truth and the NT scripture truth, both saying we have one God, a unit? Can we always find Christ in the OT when we read it in spirit and truth?

Give it careful study and get back to me when you have completed it.

 

[RedTent]

Give it careful study and get back to me when you have completed it.

I just finished a study of Leviticus whose purpose was to show the unity of what it says with what Christ did. I am deep in a study of the Hebrew language, and how those words in ancient pictograph had many meanings, and as it relates to the OT. I am also doing a study on prayer for a class, and in addition digging deep into the meaning of water in the bible and what it signifies! Have mercy!! Help me with this study.

 

[Elin]

I just finished a study of Leviticus whose purpose was to show the unity of what it says with what Christ did. I am deep in a study of the Hebrew language, and how those words in ancient pictograph had many meanings, and as it relates to the OT. I am also doing a study on prayer for a class, and in addition digging deep into the meaning of water in the bible and what it signifies! Have mercy!! Help me with this study.

You got it. . .if you have time for it.

 

[homwardbound]

It means you have to do it For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Is your serving Christ already accomplished in Christ once you step out of Adam into Christ? The scripture is not saying that.
The kingdom of God is righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. And who in these things serve Christ is acceptable to God and approved of men.Serve God in righteousness, serve God in peace, and serve God in the Holy Ghost
Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
we have to follow after these things brother

Please tell me this who is the only one righteous?

 

[homwardbound]

Let God be the judge of that brother, what we have to do is we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. So we can get what we ask for.

Brother God is the Judge of this:
i know of a man that claims Christ and as a matter of fact, beats his children to submission, and tells his wife she is to submit, that is the word of God, and so in fear they all submit, and this is going on behind closed doors and yet in public one would never know this.

Is God pleased? So we each prayerfully see this and do not manipulate to gain what we want selfishly as is what man flesh does, and God is not pleased in this at all. So today we are all so lucky, blessed to have Christ as ones neutralizer, for his shed blood has taken away the wrath for us to get new life in Spirit and truth, and be truthful to one's sins and not ask for more forgiveness form God, rather form those we have harmed
now if you have done this Amen, if not, might think about that for one minute at least for:
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

 

[homwardbound]

not this time bro we may be under the same umbrella but not same spirit and truth ...some believe ES I don't some are of OSAS I am not Others follow trinity not me If it is not in line with scripture I am not a part of it. Christ said let the wheat and the tares grow together that is good enough for me.Therefore as much as it is in me I judge no man.

Amen, so we both this and trust god to do this then right?

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

So now we are on the same page and are seeing Christ from the spectators stand yet not sitting in the same seats, And I am cool with this, because I trust God to cause us to stand and we all will have praise of God at Judgment, awesome

 

[homwardbound]

The Bible doesn't teach grace "alone" anywhere. What it does teach is that we are saved by "grace through faith" apart from works.

Faith itself is a work because it is the active dynamic of wholehearted submission to God. Thus it is through this active dynamic that the grace of God is made effectual in purifying the heart.

The reason we have to repent is because repentance is the change from being in disobedience/rebellion to God to obedience/submission to God. Without repentance the grace of God cannot be effectual in bringing about a genuine inward transformation.

Being saved "not of works" is presented within the context of outward actions produced from following rules and regulation absent of wholehearted submission to God. Thus a human being can elect not to murder and steal but if they don't have an inward heart of love it is all vanity. The love of God is shed abroad in the hearts of men when those men submit to the will of God having forsaken rebellion.

Does that make sense?

Thank you Skinski7, to me yes that makes sense
Clearest I have heard you, thank you, left no room for self works it is by Faith we do the works from a contrite heart, so that God gave us new heart, if this is please say it is what you were saying or not?

 

[homwardbound]

There is very much wrong with it.

It is very clearly of recent origin and was clearly not taught until a few hundred years ago. I have seen attempts trying to extrapolate the doctrine into early writings but this is only done via the method of isolating quotes out of context of early writers. None of the early writers viewed the death of Christ as a literal sin payment which fulfilled a debt owed.

It is true that there are many aspects to the death of Christ but Penal Substitution is not one of them.

The doctrine does not logically make sense if one is to peel back the rhetorical dressing. It certainly is a doctrine which can sound appealing because it allows one to view salvation in an abstract sense and serves to substantiate the view that deeds and salvation are disconnected.

Penal Substitution is one of the bedrocks of Reformed Theology and many people have invested their lives into this bedrock which is one reason so many are reluctant to be critical of it.

This is what i see, no matter what Doctrine man creates and or substantiates. makes no difference
Are we going to respond to God in Thanksgiving and praise, being able today to

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Did Christ consecrate this: the way, the truth and the new life for us or not?
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Mark 5:34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.
Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

So if not at peace, then might want to check with God what is wrong you think?

 

[homwardbound]

Only when the NT is a root deception.

God's response to sin is punishment (Isa 40:2 53:5, 11), penal (Lev 5:6, 7).

And actually, penal substitution is the bedrock of the OT sacrificial system.

The wages of sin is death (Ro 6:23).
God gave the sacrificial system in which an animal died as a substitute
for the life (soul) of the person (Lev 17:11), in atonement for his sin, which required death.

The OT sacrificial system was a pattern, shadow, copy (Heb 8:5) of the once-for-all NT
sacrifice (Heb 9:12, 26) of Christ Jesus,
who, for his own, met the demand of God's justice and saved them from God's wrath (Ro 5:9)
on their guilt,
by substituting for them in paying the penalty of death (Ro 3:25) which God's justice required.

You do not understand Ro 3:25-26 of the NT.
Go and learn what it means.

I like all you posted but:

You do not understand Ro 3:25-26 of the NT.
Go and learn what it means.

No matter what it shows your flesh nature in anger and is accusing, And I am not accusing you, just prayerfully making you aware as you know the war of flesh and Spirit of God are at war to this very day right?

 

[2Thewaters]

You cannot be saved by grace alone
you have to be in love with Jesus
you have to consecrate your life to him
and you ahve to follow him

no disobedient person will ever enter heaven without repentance.

you have to consecrate your life to him
You have to be born again

and then grace fills you and keeps you faithful, in love and true.

Grace is only give to the ______


anyone know the blank word?

Grace is given to those who ___________....

key point

 

[homwardbound]

It is threads like this which show just how much humans have complicated Christianity, which of course is Satans doing. It also demonstrates how many people are spiritually dead and simply religious.

Step one, acknowledge and truly believe that Jesus is Son of God who died on cross and rose from dead so that we can have eternal life in heaven with God and rejecting Jesus will result in spiritual death.

Step two. Call out to Christ and confess step 1 and say sorry for sins, pledge that you will follow and beleive.

Simple as that really isnt it. Dosnt matter what you think about his death, rescue package, final sacrifice and so on. It is what it is.

If anyone uses Once Saved Always Saved to continue to sin, well It is most likely they never knew Christ and will be thrown into hell.

People who accept Christ and get to know Christ are transformed, people are taught and re-educated, the Holy Spirit gives you that little voice and prompting when you are going to do wrong, eventually people are changed. People who keep on doing the same sin over and over without remorse or guilt can not know Christ or Holy Spirit, otherwise they would not just keep on doing it.

Here is a little video!
[video=youtube;XrLzYw6ULYw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrLzYw6ULYw[/video]

They will though by God's doing not any of self's other than wanting to, not do what they hate, that they do, will be shown by God how to trust God, which is Faith in God and one day God will show them their personal confirmation, that God loves you so much that he did go to the cross for you and rose for you. to give you the new life in spirit and truth right here and right now,, if one believes God and does not doubt God recieves. one doubt just one and we fail to be who God made us to be, the same as what happened in the Garden, they diud not believe God and ate, Doubt was formed to stop them from beinmg where they were.
And today God being the propitiation for not onlky our sins, also for the whole world, leaving us with one thing to believe god and have life over death
Where as in Adam we are born dead first and have one choice as Adam had when Adam was alive perfectly. We today from death to life, where as Adam went form life to death, one choice was made and one choice is today to be made a reverse order so to speak

 

[homwardbound]

I am amazed!! I only glanced at the study, for it seemed to say that Lev. gave the beginnings of what Christ did. Is that what it says? That has been my understanding when I have studied Leviticus, do we actually agree? Is the OT scripture truth and the NT scripture truth, both saying we have one God, a unit? Can we always find Christ in the OT when we read it in spirit and truth?

Yes Sister truth there, always, as the first testament is the giant and the second the midget. now take the midget and see the midget on the giants Shoulders and see all the way home, where are in Spirit and truth with Father and Son one, victory, by one choice of Adam death came to all. Today by one choice life is restored in Spirit and truth, made whole
Matthew 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour

Believe is the choice, receive, and see, too easy for unredeemed flesh to accept. since we are are taught from birth on as being God's, treated that way, oh look at that cute baby, and on and on then many other untruths follow and we learn what we learn, so deep, that we can't let go of works, to be saved by Faith alone that brings out true works of Love to all

Love you deeply Lois as the new life here in this unredeemed world turns

 

[homwardbound]

Give it careful study and get back to me when you have completed it.

Amen and n ow let us all grow here in this amazing grace God through Son has given us all, Amen
Thank you Lord, for i know nothing by myself.
Teach me oh Lord Teach one and all how deep is your love
[video=youtube;0vgwk8tUT5k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0vgwk8tUT5k[/video]

 

[homwardbound]

You cannot be saved by grace alone
you have to be in love with Jesus
you have to consecrate your life to him
and you ahve to follow him

no disobedient person will ever enter heaven without repentance.

you have to consecrate your life to him
You have to be born again

and then grace fills you and keeps you faithful, in love and true.

Grace is only give to the ______


anyone know the blank word?

Grace is given to those who ___________....

key point

When one see how deep is his love, then one truly loves
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
[video=youtube;0vgwk8tUT5k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0vgwk8tUT5k[/video]

 

[Elin]

I like all you posted but:
No matter what it shows your flesh nature in anger and is accusing, And I am not accusing you, just prayerfully making you aware as you know the war of flesh and Spirit of God are at war to this very day right?

Thanks, homewardbound,

My comment did not come out of the blue, or in anger. . .it had some background which made it appropriate.

 

[Elin]

Yes Sister truth there, always, as the first testament is the giant and the second the midget. now take the midget and see the midget on the giants Shoulders and see all the way home,

Not so sure I think the revelation spoken by the Son himself (Heb 1:2) is a midget.

I say it is the towering Temple, from whose pinnacle we can see all the way home.

And the OT spoken by the prophets of old (Heb 1:1) is the foundation.

 

[chubbena]

Adding to my last post.

The most common deception at work today in the minds of many is the abstract view of salvation. Due to the development of Church doctrines through Catholicism and the Reformation an incorrect view of salvation is generally taught.

It is commonly held that reconciliation to God is premised on Jesus dying as a form of judicial substitute which tenders a payment for a debt owed. With the debt being paid it is henceforth not due anymore. This view is often termed "Penal Substitution" and is the most common view of the purpose of the death of Christ today. It was borne out of the Reformation as a development of the Satisfaction theory which was first developed in the 11th century.

This "Penal Substitution" doctrine serves to twist the mission of Jesus Christ from being perceived as a "rescue" to instead being a "payment substitution."

The early church viewed the death of Christ as effecting a release from a literal bondage of sin, a bondage which wrought the certainty of death (eternal death). God cannot be reconciled to a rebel and due to this the rebellion has to cease. It is through the cross that the heart of the rebel is terminated and replaced with the heart of a servant thus making it possible for reconciliation to take place between a sinner and God.

It is the sinner that has to change not God for reconcilation to take place. God does not have to reconcile Himself to man, it is man that has to reconcile himself to God. God has provided the means through Jesus Christ who was offered on our behalf for all humanity. The sins of the whole world were taken away by this sacrifice and thus the door is open for redemption.

If any sinner will approach God in all sincerity with a true heart, coming clean with God, having turned from their rebellion in crucifying the old man then a new man will be raised up in Christ whom God accepts. That individual has been bought with a price from their old master of sin where the end was certain death. Thus Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life. We are a new creation where all things have been made new. We may not know much but our hearts have been cleansed and we are to move forward growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.

would be nice to have a separate thread to discuss...

 

[homwardbound]

Thanks, homewardbound,

My comment did not come out of the blue, or in anger. . .it had some background which made it appropriate.

Just seeing to be a Brother and thank you for the love of God that comes through you and do understand any frustrations that come out of discussions. We all just want to be heard and feel that we are, and when we do not get this, our own flesh unredeemed tries to get in the way and react, not usually as if we really do know God
So, but Thank you Sister you are appreciated

 

[homwardbound]

Not so sure I think the revelation spoken by the Son himself (Heb 1:2) is a midget.

I say it is the towering Temple, from whose pinnacle we can see all the way home.

And the OT spoken by the prophets of old (Heb 1:1) is the foundation.

To be clear, dynamite comes in small packages and the New (second) Testament, is small in writings, compared to the First (Old) Testament
Is where i get the midget and the Giant, as the allegory I used, anyway hope this makes it clearer to you as to waht i was getting at