What does the Law REALLY say?

[Elin]

Where is the Savior in the covenant with Abraham to fulfill the promise of the land (Ge 15:9-21),
or in the covenant to be Abraham's God and the God of his descendants (Ge 17:1-22)?

If one reads the letter to the Galatians chapter 3.

The new covenant was not inaugurated until the resurrection of Christ.

If one reads the letter to the Hebrews chapter 11.

Is there a reason you are being vague instead of stating the specific Scriptures and explaining them
as they relate to your assertions?

His law exists long before Moses.
Jeremiah 31:33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel, after that time, " declares the Lord
"I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts, I will be their God, and they will be my people."

And that's grace. . .God himself doing the work of transforming their minds and hearts,
making the law an internal disposition which moves them,
rather than an external code imposed upon them.

 

[Elin]

Rather, the commandments of Christ is the commandments of God. All the law and the prophets hang on the two commandments hang on a. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind - which He spoke through Moses in Deuteronomy 6:5.
b. Love your neighbor as yourself - Leviticus 19:18

The testimony of Jesus in NT writings includes "man does not live on bread alone but on
every word that comes from the mouth of God" which He spoke through Moses in Deuteronomy 8:3.

And in the entire NT through the NT writers.

 

[chubbena]

Is there a reason you are being vague instead of stating the specific Scriptures and explaining them
as they relate to your assertions?

If one reads a whole chapter is being vague comparing with reading one verse.

And that's grace. . .God himself doing the work of transforming their minds and hearts,
making the law an internal disposition which moves them,
rather than an external code imposed upon them.

Grace has always been. One might want to do a word search in the "dreadful" OT.

 

[Elin]

Where is the Savior in the covenant with Abraham to fulfill the promise of the land (Ge 15:9-21),
or in the covenant to be Abraham's God and the God of his descendants (Ge 17:1-22)?

The new covenant was not inaugurated until the resurrection of Christ.

Is there a reason you are being vague instead of
stating the specific Scriptures and explaining them
as they relate to the above?

If one reads a whole chapter is being vague comparing with reading one verse.

Non-responsive. . .because you don't have an answer.

Jer 31:31-34, that's grace. . .God himself doing the work of transforming their minds and hearts,
making the law an internal disposition which moves them,
rather than an external code imposed upon them.

Grace has always been. One might want to do a word search in the "dreadful" OT.

Yet the Abrahamic covenant of Ge 17:1-22 was not a covenant of grace,
nor was the Mosaic covenant of Ex, while the new covenant of Jer 31:31-34 is grace.

The Abrahamic covenant of Ge 17:1-22 and the new covenant of Jer 31:31-34 are fundamentally different,
the former being of law and the latter being of grace.

 

[KohenMatt]

You're grasping.

Do you also not have Christ to forgive you?

Jesus' life, death and resurrection is the ONLY thing that brings me into right standing with God. It is the ONLY thing that covers over my sin and complete unworthiness to be in His presence.

But it's obvious we see the Law in 2 very different ways, so I'll leave it right there.

Thanks for the dialogue, Elin.

 

[KohenMatt]

Sacrifices/Offerings and the Feast Days – Final part of a large group of commands


78 Leviticus 27:32 - On the Tithe of one's cattle.
And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord.

79 Exodus 13:2 - Sacrificing the First-born of clean (permitted) cattle.
Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the
children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.

80 Exodus 22:29 - On Redeeming the First-born of man, Pidyon ha-ben.
Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.

81 Exodus 34:20 - On Redeeming the firstling of an ass, if not...
But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

82 Exodus 13:13 - ...breaking the neck of the firstling of an ass.
And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.


83 Deuteronomy 12:5 - On bringing due offerings to Jerusalem without delay.
But unto the place which the Lord your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come:

84 Deuteronomy 12:14 - All offerings must be brought only to the Sanctuary.
But in the place which the Lord shall choose in one of thy tribes, there thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, and there thou shalt do all that I command thee.

85 Deuteronomy 12:26 - On offerings due from outside Israel to the Sanctuary.
Only thy holy things which thou hast, and thy vows, thou shalt take, and go unto the place which the Lord shall choose:

86 Deuteronomy 12:15 - On Redeeming blemished sanctified animal offerings.
Notwithstanding, thou mayest kill and eat flesh in all thy gates, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, according to the blessing of the Lord thy God which he hath given thee: the unclean and the clean may eat thereof, as of the roebuck, and as of the hart.

87 Leviticus 27:33 - On the holiness of substituted animal offerings.
He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

88 Leviticus 6:9 - On Cohanim (Priests) eating the remainder of the Meal Offerings.
Command Aaron and his sons, saying, This is the law of the burnt offering: It is the burnt offering, because of the burning upon the altar all night unto the morning, and the fire of the altar shall be burning in it.

89 Exodus 29:33 - On Cohanim (Priests) eating the meat of Sin and Guilt Offerings.
And they shall eat those things wherewith the atonement was made, to consecrate and to sanctify them: but a stranger shall not eat thereof, because they are holy.

90 Leviticus 7:19 - Burn Consecrated Offerings that've become tameh/unclean.
And the flesh that toucheth any unclean thing shall not be eaten; it shall be burnt with fire: and as for the flesh, all that be clean shall eat thereof.

91 Leviticus 7:17 - Burn remnant of Consecrated Offerings not eaten in time.
But the remainder of the flesh of the sacrifice on the third day shall be burnt with fire.

 

[RedTent]

JaumeJ, when one soul repents and believes the gospel, the angels and all of heaven rejoices over that one soul. Do we rejoice with heaven and do we have joy when a sinner repents and receives the gospel of Jesus Christ by grace through faith or are we too busy keeping the law that we miss the beauty of heaven in all of its joy and splendor? .

What blasphemy to say that keeping the law keeps us from beauty and joy!!!

 

[cfultz3]

What blasphemy to say that keeping the law keeps us from beauty and joy!!!

To all,

You better believe that we should keep God's Law which He has placed in our mind (the Law of our mind). I am sure God had a purpose in taking the time to have placed it there. Does it not say that we are to serve God's Law with our mind? Yes, it does. Does it not say that every deed shall be judged? How are they judged if not by His Law?

Imagine how the conscious will accuse that one who shall stand before God on that Day and say it warred against His Law which He infused within us. Is there a place for the lawless ones in Heaven?

Imagine how the conscious will defend that one who shall stand before God on that Day and say it heeded to His Law. The same Law within us which causes us to desire to do good. The same Law which wars against the Law in our fleshly members. That is, the Law upon our conscious.

Listen people, we are only dead to the Law as our lord/husband. If God deemed it needful to have placed it in our mind, then consider the consequences of rejecting it.

Let us therefore become the Bride of the Groom and let Him be our Lord/Husband who spiritually dictates the way to God.

Indeed, spiritually keeping the Law of our new Husband will keep us on the path of Beauty and Joy.

 

[chubbena]

Non-responsive. . .because you don't have an answer.

Yet the Abrahamic covenant of Ge 17:1-22 was not a covenant of grace,
nor was the Mosaic covenant of Ex, while the new covenant of Jer 31:31-34 is grace.

The Abrahamic covenant of Ge 17:1-22 and the new covenant of Jer 31:31-34 are fundamentally different,
the former being of law and the latter being of grace.

I surely don't have an answer if you considered the chapters I quoted did not answer your questions.
If Galatians 3:16 does not refer to the savior.
If Hebrews 11 does not say the ancients shared the same faith as the "NT" believers do.

If Abraham is not the father of faith and if Abraham's faith was not credited to him as righteousness than yes, the Abrahamic covenant is of law.

Fundamentally the two covenants are initiated by the same God because of His grace.

Fundamentally the law is a very important part of the new covenant.

 

[BradC]

What blasphemy to say that keeping the law keeps us from beauty and joy!!!

Jesus said to his disciples to follow him and he would make them fishers of men in (Matt 4:19). Keeping the law does not make us fishers of men but following Christ will make us fishers of men. We have been redeemed by the blood of Christ and have been given the Spirit that we might know the Lord and to follow Him by faith. He came to seek and save that which is lost. Following the law does not motivate us to seek and save that which is lost but taking up our cross and following Christ will allow the Spirit to motivate us in the love of God toward the lost. The law has no power to motivate us toward the lost, toward those who are sick and who are without hope in this present evil world. It is going to take the cross and faith in the mercy and grace of God with God's compassion to get us to seek the lost and give them the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and to turn them from the error of their way. The law is weak and unable to do that no matter how much we try to keep it. That is why Christ is the end of the law to every one that believes and thank God for that.

 

[JaumeJ]

Psa 119:9 BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.

Psa 119:10 With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.

Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

Psa 119:12 Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.

Psa 119:13 With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth.

Psa 119:14 I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as much as in all riches.

Psa 119:15 I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.

Psa 119:16 I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.

Psa 119:17 GIMEL. Deal bountifully with thy servant, that I may live, and keep thy word.

Psa 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

Psa 119:19 I am a stranger in the earth: hide not thy commandments from me.

Psa 119:20 My soul breaketh for the longing that it hath unto thy judgments at all times.

Psa 119:21 Thou hast rebuked the proud that are cursed, which do err from thy commandments.

Psa 119:22 Remove from me reproach and contempt; for I have kept thy testimonies.

Psa 119:23 Princes also did sit and speak against me: but thy servant did meditate in thy statutes.
Psa 119:24

Thy testimonies also are my delight and my counsellors.



Psa 119:73
JOD. Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments.

Psa 119:74
They that fear thee will be glad when they see me; because I have hoped in thy word.

Psa 119:75
I know, O LORD, that thy judgments are right, and that thou in faithfulness hast afflicted me.

Psa 119:76
Let, I pray thee, thy merciful kindness be for my comfort, according to thy word unto thy servant.

Psa 119:77
Let thy tender mercies come unto me, that I may live: for thy law is my delight.

Psa 119:78
Let the proud be ashamed; for they dealt perversely with me without a cause: but I will meditate in thy precepts.

Psa 119:79
Let those that fear thee turn unto me, and those that have known thy testimonies.

Psa 119:80
Let my heart be sound in thy statutes; that I be not ashamed.

 

[BradC]

To all,

You better believe that we should keep God's Law which He has placed in our mind (the Law of our mind). I am sure God had a purpose in taking the time to have placed it there. Does it not say that we are to serve God's Law with our mind? Yes, it does. Does it not say that every deed shall be judged? How are they judged if not by His Law?

Imagine how the conscious will accuse that one who shall stand before God on that Day and say it warred against His Law which He infused within us. Is there a place for the lawless ones in Heaven?

Imagine how the conscious will defend that one who shall stand before God on that Day and say it heeded to His Law. The same Law within us which causes us to desire to do good. The same Law which wars against the Law in our fleshly members. That is, the Law upon our conscious.

Listen people, we are only dead to the Law as our lord/husband. If God deemed it needful to have placed it in our mind, then consider the consequences of rejecting it.

Let us therefore become the Bride of the Groom and let Him be our Lord/Husband who spiritually dictates the way to God.

Indeed, spiritually keeping the Law of our new Husband will keep us on the path of Beauty and Joy.

We will not be judged according to the law but according to (John 12:46-50)...

46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

and according to (Heb 1:1,2)...

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds

and according to (John 6:63) and not according to the letter of the law (2 Cor 3:6)...

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Maybe now we can talk about (Romans 2:11ff) in relationship to the law and those who are under the law. It is worth getting into without prejudice.

 

[cfultz3]

We will not be judged according to the law but according to (John 12:46-50)...

46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

and according to (Heb 1:1,2)...

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds

And what has our Lord spoken:

Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.​

What of the words He spoke concerning the Churches in Revelation? What about the great White throne? If our deeds are not judged, then He spoke a lie in Mat 16:27, although He said that what He spoke, He spoke from the Father.

So then, if God has spoken to us in these latter days through a Son, then let us hear what the Son says to the Churches...The one who has an ear, let him hear what the SPIRIT says: He who overcomes.

Overcome what? Sin? What is sin? Transgression of God's Law? Thus, He says: Remember where you had fallen and repent. Or else......

and according to (John 6:63) and not according to the letter of the law (2 Cor 3:6)...

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

So then, let us follow through with Romans 7 and serve God's Law with the mind and not by the oldness of a letter. Let us die to our old husband and his lordship which led by the flesh and marry our new Husband who leads by the spirit so that we can be fruitful to our God and serve His Law.

Has not the Lord said that the Law shall not pass away until........So then, let us walk according to the dictate of our Husband who never knew what it meant to walk contrary to God's will.

Maybe now we can talk about (Romans 2:11ff) in relationship to the law and those who are under the law. It is worth getting into without prejudice.

Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.​

The sinning Gentiles who were not given the Law, they will still perish without having the Law. The sinning Jews who were given the Law, shall perish according to the Law. Either way, it is the hearers of the Law which shall perish before God. But those, whither they have the Law or not, who are doers of the Law, shall be found just because the Law is upon their heart and they fulfilled it.

And if we shall continue in verses 14-15, we find that it is true that the Law is written upon our hearts. And that our conscious also bears witness to this fact. And what does it say about what will happen during that Day God will judge through Jesus according to the Gospel Paul proclaims? Our thoughts accusing or or else excusing in harmony to our conscious and our heart which has the Law written upon it.

We are simply dead to the Law as that which dictates to us how to be pleasing before God. However, we who follow our new Husband will follow His path He leads on, a path which was RIGHTEOUS before God.

 

[Grandpa]

To all,

You better believe that we should keep God's Law which He has placed in our mind (the Law of our mind). I am sure God had a purpose in taking the time to have placed it there. Does it not say that we are to serve God's Law with our mind? Yes, it does. Does it not say that every deed shall be judged? How are they judged if not by His Law?

Imagine how the conscious will accuse that one who shall stand before God on that Day and say it warred against His Law which He infused within us. Is there a place for the lawless ones in Heaven?

Imagine how the conscious will defend that one who shall stand before God on that Day and say it heeded to His Law. The same Law within us which causes us to desire to do good. The same Law which wars against the Law in our fleshly members. That is, the Law upon our conscious.

Listen people, we are only dead to the Law as our lord/husband. If God deemed it needful to have placed it in our mind, then consider the consequences of rejecting it.

Let us therefore become the Bride of the Groom and let Him be our Lord/Husband who spiritually dictates the way to God.

Indeed, spiritually keeping the Law of our new Husband will keep us on the path of Beauty and Joy.

Imagine the horror that conscience will have when it is before God and attempts to reason with God that it was perfect before Him according to His Law.

The only standing we have before God is believing that His Son Jesus Christ has made us Holy Before Him by His Own Blood and by His Own Work and not our own.

My conscience will be begging mercy and calling for my Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Imagine the horror that conscience will have when it is before God and attempts to reason with God that it was perfect before Him according to His Law.

The only standing we have before God is believing that His Son Jesus Christ has made us Holy Before Him by His Own Blood and by His Own Work and not our own.

My conscience will be begging mercy and calling for my Saviour Jesus Christ.

Imagine those also who stand at the judgment seat that believe in Jesus, but are told go away to eternal punishment.

They will plead with Him as to why, and He will say to them because you did not help others ( produce good fruit/works ).
By not doing for others, you did not do for Me.

 

[Grandpa]

Imagine those also who stand at the judgment seat that believe in Jesus, but are told go away to eternal punishment.

They will plead with Him as to why, and He will say to them because you did not help others ( produce good fruit/works ).
By not doing for others, you did not do for Me.

He would have to break His Own Word to do that.

I will Never leave you nor Forsake you.

 

[JaumeJ]

Yes, imagine. It is imagination.



Mat 25:43
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in(in the law of Moses): naked, and ye clothed me not(in the law of Moses): sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Mat 25:44
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Mat 25:45
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.


Mat 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Please, I beg all who cleave to Jesus Christ not to teach against any of the laws, for any who teach against even the least of the laws will be least in the Kingdom. The laws that are to be observed are good and they are holy, amen.

 

[kennethcadwell]

He would have to break His Own Word to do that.

I will Never leave you nor Forsake you.

Read Matthew 25, this is what it says.

Plus once again stop putting the blame on the Lord.

The individual can turn away from the Lord, and there is many scriptures that support ones that have fallen or turned away from the Lord our God.

 

[cfultz3]

Imagine the horror that conscience will have when it is before God and attempts to reason with God that it was perfect before Him according to His Law.

The only standing we have before God is believing that His Son Jesus Christ has made us Holy Before Him by His Own Blood and by His Own Work and not our own.

My conscience will be begging mercy and calling for my Saviour Jesus Christ.

I would not want to be the one who say to God that my obedience to His Law were through the members of my body. I would want the conscious which was in harmony to that Law written in my mind. Imagine, if you will, the horror of the one who shall say, 'Have I not DONE', the one who never divorced the Law as his husband/lord.

Yes, indeed!!! Let us trust our new Lord on His path, because He, and He alone, makes us just (innocent) by His body and those things which He did through that body. Claim Him and His works as that which makes you righteous before God and you shall see that He will not disappoint your goal of being before God forevermore.

Like you and hopefully all, all we have is our faith and through our dear Lord and Savior, we will find that mercy, although we might see our every deed burnt-up. Amen?

 

[Elin]

Jesus' life, death and resurrection is the ONLY thing that brings me into right standing with God. It is the ONLY thing that covers over my sin and complete unworthiness to be in His presence.

Actually, it is your faith in Jesus Christ that brings you into right standing with God.

Jesus' life, death and resurrection brings no one else into right standing.