C
chubbena
Guest
We were comparing #284 of the 613 laws to the scripture. Where is this accusing condescending spirit from?
What does the Law REALLY say?
- Thread starter KohenMatt
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wait, Paul and James do seem interested in fixing the situation that there were thousands of believing Jewish people in that area who were zealous for the law? so that they wouldn't be zealous for the law anymore?
so, Paul and James don't seem concerned that there are thousands of believing Jewish people in that place who are zealous for the law... then, fast forward to today... is there a place like that today?
Well Paul and James do but they trust the preaching and reading of Moses in the synagogues in every city on every Sabbath would take care of such cf Acts 15:21.chubbena
they them selfs are jewish, (paul and james )how many gentile go to a synagogue back then.
you cant put/ take this as fact. because the jewish none christain will not associate with a gentile. just leads to speculation..28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, Acts 10
just walk in to the synagogues in every city on the Sabbath (and see the reaction a gentile would get etc)
what we do know, is most of the churchs, he worked with were in turkey paul.
and he calls him self an apostile to the gentiles, when the most of the other apostiles, were preaching to jews.
they them selfs are jewish, (paul and james )how many gentile go to a synagogue back then.
you cant put/ take this as fact. because the jewish none christain will not associate with a gentile. just leads to speculation..28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, Acts 10
just walk in to the synagogues in every city on the Sabbath (and see the reaction a gentile would get etc)
what we do know, is most of the churchs, he worked with were in turkey paul.
and he calls him self an apostile to the gentiles, when the most of the other apostiles, were preaching to jews.
C
chubbena
Guest
To me the decision in Acts 15 was the admittance standard for joining the faith.
The Exodus was our example.
Those led by Moses out of Egypt were saved in the sense that they were released from the bondage of slavery. They now have the freedom to choose between following God and going on their own cf Exodus 19.
Could they continue their evil practices following God in the desert?
C
chubbena
Guest
Like I said earlier, they were concerned that the people were zealous for the law in the wrong place, not zealous for the law in the right place. The wrong place is physical circumcision which in Deuteronomy 30 God has already said He would circumcise His people in the heart which points to the new covenant in Jeremiah 31.
The right place? To abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood (these are from the OT aren't they?) For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.
Today many in Christian forums are zealous in a different way. Don't you see some relate circumcision with the law and everything in it and are zealous to speak against those who uphold the law?
So in which area are you zealous?
JUSTICE – Part 3 of 5
300 Deuteronomy 25:2,3 - Inflict not more than assigned number lashes to guilty.
And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number. Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.
301 Leviticus 19:16 - Not to tell tales.
Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
302 Leviticus 19:17 - Not to bear hatred in your heart toward your brethren.
Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
303 Leviticus 19:17 - Not to put one another to shame.
Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
304 Leviticus 19:18 - Not to take vengeance on another.
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
305 Leviticus 19:18 - Not to bear a grudge.
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
306 Deuteronomy 22:6 - Not to take entire bird's nest, mother and her young.
If a bird's nest chance to be before thee in the way in any tree, or on the ground, whether they be young ones, or eggs, and the dam sitting upon the young, or upon the eggs, thou shalt not take the dam with the young:
307 Leviticus 13:33 - Not to shave a leprous scall.
He shall be shaven, but the scall shall he not shave; and the priest shall shut up him that hath the scall seven days more:
308 Deuteronomy 24:8 - Not to cut or cauterize (remove) other signs of leprosy.
Take heed in the plague of leprosy, that thou observe diligently, and do according to all that the priests the Levites shall teach you: as I commanded them, so ye shall observe to do.
309 Deuteronomy 21:4 - Plow not a valley where slain body found, eglah arufah.
And the elders of that city shall bring down the heifer unto a rough valley, which is neither eared nor sown, and shall strike off the heifer's neck there in the valley:
310 Exodus 22:18 - Not permitting a witch / sorcerer to live.
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
311 Deuteronomy 24:5 - Take not bridegroom from home in first year of marriage.
When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.
312 Deuteronomy 17:11 - Not to differ from or disobey the Cohanim and the Judge.
According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.
300 Deuteronomy 25:2,3 - Inflict not more than assigned number lashes to guilty.
And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number. Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.
301 Leviticus 19:16 - Not to tell tales.
Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
302 Leviticus 19:17 - Not to bear hatred in your heart toward your brethren.
Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
303 Leviticus 19:17 - Not to put one another to shame.
Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
304 Leviticus 19:18 - Not to take vengeance on another.
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
305 Leviticus 19:18 - Not to bear a grudge.
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
306 Deuteronomy 22:6 - Not to take entire bird's nest, mother and her young.
If a bird's nest chance to be before thee in the way in any tree, or on the ground, whether they be young ones, or eggs, and the dam sitting upon the young, or upon the eggs, thou shalt not take the dam with the young:
307 Leviticus 13:33 - Not to shave a leprous scall.
He shall be shaven, but the scall shall he not shave; and the priest shall shut up him that hath the scall seven days more:
308 Deuteronomy 24:8 - Not to cut or cauterize (remove) other signs of leprosy.
Take heed in the plague of leprosy, that thou observe diligently, and do according to all that the priests the Levites shall teach you: as I commanded them, so ye shall observe to do.
309 Deuteronomy 21:4 - Plow not a valley where slain body found, eglah arufah.
And the elders of that city shall bring down the heifer unto a rough valley, which is neither eared nor sown, and shall strike off the heifer's neck there in the valley:
310 Exodus 22:18 - Not permitting a witch / sorcerer to live.
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
311 Deuteronomy 24:5 - Take not bridegroom from home in first year of marriage.
When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.
312 Deuteronomy 17:11 - Not to differ from or disobey the Cohanim and the Judge.
According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.
C
chubbena
Guest
Many gentiles went to synagogue to seek God before various assemblies in Christ are formed if one cares to study Acts. The assemblies began as home churches and later developed into institutions and that's when things went wrong.
You rightfully pointed out that the Jews had the tradition of not associating with gentiles unless they were circumcised and that's exactly what the council was about in Acts 15 and of course the incidence between Paul and "Peter" in the letter to the Galatians.
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10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will."acts 15
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.Galatians 3
C
chubbena
Guest
I can magnify verse 21 to the same size
I hope you don't follow Christ by just the four requirements in Acts 15:19-20
I can magnify verse 21 to the same size
I hope you don't follow Christ by just the four requirements in Acts 15:19-20 (your quote)
19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.
8 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation
Acts 10
when was a gentile in a synagogues."
21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the
synagogues."
but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me."acts 10
god told peter not to call any person unclean.
when did god tell the pharasees and teachers of the law,( not to call any person unclean.) them that rejected him ie jesus.
I hope you don't follow Christ by just the four requirements in Acts 15:19-20
(your quote)19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.
8 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation
Acts 10
when was a gentile in a synagogues."
21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the
synagogues."
but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me."acts 10
god told peter not to call any person unclean.
when did god tell the pharasees and teachers of the law,( not to call any person unclean.) them that rejected him ie jesus.
when did they build a synagogue.
this church was in hiding, from the temple (stone ) jews ,teachers of law etc.
paul was jewish, and so were most of the apostiles.
yet 70 ad then happened, how many books of the new testament were wrote after this date.
rev, and titus come to my mind. etc
this is 2014 lol
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C
chubbena
Guest
One of the reasons why Acts 15 took place? No?I can magnify verse 21 to the same size
I hope you don't follow Christ by just the four requirements in Acts 15:19-20
19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.
8 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation
Acts 10
when was a gentile in a synagogues."
21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the
synagogues."
but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me."acts 10
god told peter not to call any person unclean.
when did god tell the pharasees and teachers of the law,( not to call any person unclean.) them that rejected him ie jesus.
C
chubbena
Guest
Which Bible version do you use? Last time I checked the 2014 NIV has not changed much in Acts 15 and the first 39 books of the scripture are still there
JUSTICE – Part 4 of 5
313 Deuteronomy 12:32 - Not to add to the Mitzvot / commandments of Torah.
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
314 Deuteronomy 12:32 - Not to detract from the Mitzvot / commandments of Torah.
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
315 Exodus 22:28 - Not to curse a judge.
Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.
316 Exodus 22:28 - Not to curse a ruler.
Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.
317 Leviticus 19:14 - Not to curse any Jew.
Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
318 Exodus 21:17 - Not cursing parents.
And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
319 Exodus 21:15 - Not to strike parents.
And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
313 Deuteronomy 12:32 - Not to add to the Mitzvot / commandments of Torah.
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
314 Deuteronomy 12:32 - Not to detract from the Mitzvot / commandments of Torah.
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
315 Exodus 22:28 - Not to curse a judge.
Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.
316 Exodus 22:28 - Not to curse a ruler.
Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.
317 Leviticus 19:14 - Not to curse any Jew.
Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
318 Exodus 21:17 - Not cursing parents.
And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
319 Exodus 21:15 - Not to strike parents.
And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
JUSTICE – Final Part
320 Exodus 20:10 - Not to work on Shabbat.
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
321 Exodus 16:29 - Not to walk beyond permitted limits, eruv, on Shabbat.
See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
322 Exodus 35:3 - Not to inflict punishment on the Shabbat.
Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.
323 Exodus 12:16 - Not to work on the first day of Pesach (Passover).
And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
324 Exodus 12:16 - Not to work on the seventh day of Pesach (Passover).
And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
325 Leviticus 23:21 - Not to work on Shavuot (Pentecost).
And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.
326 Leviticus 23:25 - Not to work on Rosh HaShannah (Head of Year).
Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
327 Leviticus 23:35 - Not to work on the first day of Sukkot (Booths).
On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
328 Leviticus 23:36 - Work not 8th-day / Shemini-Atzeret, (after Hoshana Rabba).
Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.
329 Leviticus 23:28 - Not to work on Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement).
And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
320 Exodus 20:10 - Not to work on Shabbat.
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
321 Exodus 16:29 - Not to walk beyond permitted limits, eruv, on Shabbat.
See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
322 Exodus 35:3 - Not to inflict punishment on the Shabbat.
Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.
323 Exodus 12:16 - Not to work on the first day of Pesach (Passover).
And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
324 Exodus 12:16 - Not to work on the seventh day of Pesach (Passover).
And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
325 Leviticus 23:21 - Not to work on Shavuot (Pentecost).
And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.
326 Leviticus 23:25 - Not to work on Rosh HaShannah (Head of Year).
Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
327 Leviticus 23:35 - Not to work on the first day of Sukkot (Booths).
On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
328 Leviticus 23:36 - Work not 8th-day / Shemini-Atzeret, (after Hoshana Rabba).
Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.
329 Leviticus 23:28 - Not to work on Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement).
And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
any bible, time line, will prove you wrong. stay away from 48 or 70 ad they are for smart alec s , try and keep, upWhich Bible version do you use? Last time I checked the 2014 NIV has not changed much in Acts 15 and the first 39 books of the scripture are still there
new covenant ,
new covenant did change. the old. you need a law. that was the full law. and could be used by both party s.Which Bible version do you use? Last time I checked the 2014 NIV has not changed much in Acts 15 and the first 39 books of the scripture are still there
awe shame, the word gift, and grace came, before all that, (boo hoo lol )
B
BradC
Guest
This is not speaking of the law that was given to Moses. The law is not being referenced in this passage and is not connected to the words of God's mouth, or the doctrine that drops as the rain or speech that distills as the dew. The words of God that come forth as speech goes way beyond any law that you might be referring to. You like to reference Psalm 119 as a point of contact to reference the law that was given to Moses or the 'Torah'. You want the Torah to be your main source of instructions, but when Moses is read their is a vail over the heart and conversion has not taken place. Baptism into the body of Christ has taken the place of being baptized unto the law of Moses or the Torah. Christ is our head and the law of Christ has superceded Moses and the law given to him. The law has been replaced by the Spirit and the law of Christ that we have in the church through the apostle's doctrine. Our faith in the Son of God and our fellowship in the Spirit is according to the word doctrine of the apostles that we have in the scriptures that leads us into all truth. The Spirit does not lead us according to the Torah, rather we are led by grace and truth in the doctrine of Christ. We walk by faith in the light of the doctrine of Christ and the grace of God and not according to the law.
Psa 111:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Those who believe God before Jesus Christ, when He walked His earth, and immediately after He departed were taught from the Old Testament. Would any deny this?
The truth is taught throughout torah, and torah is teaching, thus it is all of the Bible.
Jesus is the Word; do not rise above His teaching through His prophets to become an editor of truth. We either believe what He teaches, or we do not. I believe Him. Obey God in love, it is the least one may do to show gratitude for the sacrifice and suffering of Jesus Christ.
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Those who believe God before Jesus Christ, when He walked His earth, and immediately after He departed were taught from the Old Testament. Would any deny this?
The truth is taught throughout torah, and torah is teaching, thus it is all of the Bible.
Jesus is the Word; do not rise above His teaching through His prophets to become an editor of truth. We either believe what He teaches, or we do not. I believe Him. Obey God in love, it is the least one may do to show gratitude for the sacrifice and suffering of Jesus Christ.