What does to believe in/on Christ mean to you?

[luigi]

Yes there is a great divide on this subject and for good reason, it is indeed a gift but is it a gift you have to keep working for to keep? If you give your kid a christmas present is that gift theirs to keep or will they have to keep working for it to keep it?

I have overcome some sins which I no longer have any compulsion in doing, and therefore are no longer any work at all for me. And while there are some sins I still continue to commit, as I am not very contrite about these sins and therefore not very repentant; I do nevertheless realize that in order to be acceptable to the Lord who is Spirit, that I will have to overcome these sins in the flesh as well.

However you see there is a great misunderstanding about those who rest in his grace they do not see it as a free ticket to do as they please we all stumble and fall down and some hit the floor much harder than others but these also are the people who are all the more grateful for his grace and always strive to do better not because they have to to try to overcome the sin but because those who are that grateful for his sacrifice do so out of love and respect for him If a drug addict who was seen as a lost cause but found rest in him was born again and felt free from the shackles of his sin and who he was how grateful do you expect he will be for what Jesus did for him?

This is a perfect example of the people I am talking about, many are this addicted as the flesh naturally sins but they were saved and made into a new creation the problem is that they have those chains still because they see the old person they were they see the sin and want to overcome it but these chains are not for us to bear how far can you move forward carrying chains of your own doing when those chains were already removed for you?

If you stumble and fall, and are honestly in your heart contrite about you falling and hitting the floor, the Lord will then save you from these sins (Psalms 34:18). There are, however, those who I previously mentioned to you who see the Lord's sacrifice to free us from our bondage to sin as a get out of Hell free card, when it is not.

Psalm 34:18 The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

All that Christ taught is what represents faith in Christ, which is salvation.
And yes, unfortunately there are many who see Christ only as a permanent sin sacrifice and scapegoat for sin. They do this because they have an incorrect definition and understanding of what Christ dying for our sins means.
Prior to accepting and believing in Christ, I was bound to my sins, unable to not commit sins, with my flesh being my master. After accepting and believing in Christ's action with His dying on the cross for my sins, I then was freed from my compulsory need to sin. And while it is still hard to not completely stop all my sinning, I must eventually overcome these sins if I wish to be acceptable to God.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Mayes going back to your first sentence there christs teachings about God , about mankind , how God sees us what he desires of us , how he wants us to see him ect. Christ teaches an understanding of God the true understanding of God .

that scripture you concluded with there the next verse is important and shows where the change happens

“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭

“That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We need a renewed mind which is why believing the gospel is salvation . A new birth in our understanding of God and us and our relationship

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In our minds and hearts is a stronghold of the enemy

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭

Our faith has to change from what it was before and transform into the faith of Christ , meaning faith that is built by his word and not our imagination

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s truly about faith but we have to put our faith in Christ and the gospel he sent out for us to believe . A lot of folks create their own version and call it salvation I’d say you are on the path Christ set before you

 

[infinitekhanol]

Jesus overcame sin for us we may stumble and fall and some have a greater weakness to certain sins than others but it isn't us who overcome our sins he already did, far to many believers struggle and are damaged because of the shackle of sin they are overcome with guilt and some even believe they will go to hell I know this because I have spoken with many

It is not for us to look at who we were when sin defined us before we came into his kingdom it is for us to look at who he created us in being born again only then can people free themselves of the chains they carry, many who carry these chains on themselves don't need to be reminded of their sins and to overcome them they need to be reminded who he says they are and what he says they are.

I don't believe in the gospel of sin I believe in the gospel of salvation

I think it is important for us to understand that it is possible for us not to sin otherwise Jesus would not have asked the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more. It is important we walk with this understanding in our walk of faith. The Holy Spirit is there with us us guiding and walking us out of sin.

Christ Jesus tells us that his strength is made perfect in weakness and as it is written, we can do all things through Christ which strengthens us. His grace is sufficient for us to do anything he wants us to do including sinning no more.

 

[Blain]

I have overcome some sins which I no longer have any compulsion in doing, and therefore are no longer any work at all for me. And while there are some sins I still continue to commit, as I am not very contrite about these sins and therefore not very repentant; I do nevertheless realize that in order to be acceptable to the Lord who is Spirit, that I will have to overcome these sins in the flesh as well.

If you stumble and fall, and are honestly in your heart contrite about you falling and hitting the floor, the Lord will then save you from these sins (Psalms 34:18). There are, however, those who I previously mentioned to you who see the Lord's sacrifice to free us from our bondage to sin as a get out of Hell free card, when it is not.

Psalm 34:18 The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

It's great you overcame some of the sins you struggled with and I by no means intended to say that we cannot and are not to overcome them, the issue comes when people go to far either way, those who seem to be I suppose you call it anti grace believers and those who are so in grace that sadly like you mentioned they do in fact see it as a ticket to do as they please. It requires a balance between the two to understand how grace works and how we should treat it and I apologize if I misunderstood you as you seem to have a decent understanding of how to operate in grace

It is true that we can rest in grace and it is also true that we can carry burdens of sin but at the same time he teaches us about grace and not just so that we can rest in it but so that eventually we can stand on our two feet knowing that even if we do stumble we have nothing to fear

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

If one believes in Christ and His Way, which is Spiritual, then one will repent of their sins and become acceptable to God.
If one, however, does not believe in the Spirit, but instead continues in the flesh indulging in sin, they then are not acceptable to God, and Gods grace which leads us Spiritually, will be of no effect in saving those who choose to live in the flesh.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Unless the person comes to the Truth that their Faith must be placed and maintained exclusively in Jesus Christ and Cross and that this is God’s prescribed order of victory over sin, the world, the flesh and, the Devil, NO REPENTANCE WIll BE GRANTED. 2 Timothy 2:24-26

Many have removed themselves from Christ. Gal. 1:6

The Judaizers believed in Christ also.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I think it is important for us to understand that it is possible for us not to sin otherwise Jesus would not have asked the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more. It is important we walk with this understanding in our walk of faith. The Holy Spirit is there with us us guiding and walking us out of sin.

Christ Jesus tells us that his strength is made perfect in weakness and as it is written, we can do all things through Christ which strengthens us. His grace is sufficient for us to do anything he wants us to do including sinning no more.

yes and what if tomorrow I find out I’ve sinned ?

am I then lost ? or am I at the point of needing to acknowledge my sins and repent ?

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:8-10‬ ‭

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I agree with what your saying we should have that attitude about our own self , but should be very careful about looking at another persons sin and making any judgement . Because it’s between them and the lord who knows the depths of thier mind and heart and what is sin to me based on my understanding may not be to another who doesn’t understand the same thing

“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I believe the most important thing Christ taught about Our forgiveness is this

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.

For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬


If we look at the gospel and consider it true , we all have sin inside of us , and at times we have followed it . So it’s not different for me if I’ve repented and changed a lot , I’m still no different from the person who is just beginning to learn about repentance and faith

I do agree with you , I think it’s important to keep our judgements focused on our own selves because it will bring repentance if we do . But if we judge others it isn’t going to lead them to repentance it will bring judgement on ourself

 

[Blik]

Unless the person comes to the Truth that their Faith must be placed and maintained exclusively in Jesus Christ and Cross and that this is God’s prescribed order of victory over sin, the world, the flesh and, the Devil, NO REPENTANCE WIll BE GRANTED. 2 Timothy 2:24-26

Many have removed themselves from Christ. Gal. 1:6

The Judaizers believed in Christ also.

2 Timothy 2: 24 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,

 

[Pilgrimshope]

2 Timothy 2: 24 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”

‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”

‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

‭‭John‬ ‭14:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:3‬ ‭

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5-6‬ ‭

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭

 

[luigi]

Mayes going back to your first sentence there christs teachings about God , about mankind , how God sees us what he desires of us , how he wants us to see him ect. Christ teaches an understanding of God the true understanding of God .

that scripture you concluded with there the next verse is important and shows where the change happens

“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭

“That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We need a renewed mind which is why believing the gospel is salvation . A new birth in our understanding of God and us and our relationship

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In our minds and hearts is a stronghold of the enemy

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭

Our faith has to change from what it was before and transform into the faith of Christ , meaning faith that is built by his word and not our imagination

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s truly about faith but we have to put our faith in Christ and the gospel he sent out for us to believe . A lot of folks create their own version and call it salvation I’d say you are on the path Christ set before you

You see very well with the Word brother.

 

[luigi]

It's great you overcame some of the sins you struggled with and I by no means intended to say that we cannot and are not to overcome them, the issue comes when people go to far either way, those who seem to be I suppose you call it anti grace believers and those who are so in grace that sadly like you mentioned they do in fact see it as a ticket to do as they please. It requires a balance between the two to understand how grace works and how we should treat it and I apologize if I misunderstood you as you seem to have a decent understanding of how to operate in grace

It is true that we can rest in grace and it is also true that we can carry burdens of sin but at the same time he teaches us about grace and not just so that we can rest in it but so that eventually we can stand on our two feet knowing that even if we do stumble we have nothing to fear

Gods grace which saves us is His Spiritual illumination for those of us who choose to leave their carnal inclinations behind by overcoming them. Like I said before, I have some carnal inclinations which I have yet to be sufficiently contrite over in order to overcome these leaving them behind. Right now I have some of Gods grace illuminating me for those sins I have left behind and overcome, but I know there is still a ways for me to go in order to make my clothing white. We need to put all of Gods Word together to know what is truth, and not just cherry pick some scriptures while denying others, so that we may feel good about continuing to live in the flesh.

 

[luigi]

Unless the person comes to the Truth that their Faith must be placed and maintained exclusively in Jesus Christ and Cross and that this is God’s prescribed order of victory over sin, the world, the flesh and, the Devil, NO REPENTANCE WIll BE GRANTED. 2 Timothy 2:24-26

Many have removed themselves from Christ. Gal. 1:6

The Judaizers believed in Christ also.

The Lord is in the volume of the whole bible. We need to hold to all the Word, and not just cherry pick some verses, taking them out of context, which deny other verses, just so that we may feel good about continuing to live for our flesh. To believe in Christ is to believe in all Christ taught.

 

[Magenta]

We who are under Christ are no longer under the law but under Grace. Romans 6:14

The Lord tells us His Yoke is easy and His burden is light. Matthew 11:30

The apostles tell us the burden of the Law is a yoke neither we nor our fathers were able to bear. Acts 15:10

Romans 10:4

 

[Magenta]

The Lord tells us His Yoke is easy and His burden is light. Matthew 11:30

Matthew 11:28-30

 

[Blain]

2 Timothy 2: 24 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,

Gods grace which saves us is His Spiritual illumination for those of us who choose to leave their carnal inclinations behind by overcoming them. Like I said before, I have some carnal inclinations which I have yet to be sufficiently contrite over in order to overcome these leaving them behind. Right now I have some of Gods grace illuminating me for those sins I have left behind and overcome, but I know there is still a ways for me to go in order to make my clothing white. We need to put all of Gods Word together to know what is truth, and not just cherry pick some scriptures while denying others, so that we may feel good about continuing to live in the flesh.

The issue I have is when people try to become sinless following the sinless doctrine that one in particular I have seen destroy far to many young believers and even some veteran believers who try as they as might could not live to those standards the spirit may be willing but the flesh is weak.

I always question who are we in Christ, are we brought into his kingdom or not because sin cannot abide in his kingdom but if this is true then what was the point of Jesus dying if we strive to become perfect and without sin then didi his blood really wash us clean and if not then how many times must we pin him to the cross in order to be seen as pure clean and righteous in his eyes.

Then I ask myself and if we are in fact clean pure and righteous in his eyes because of his grace and the sacrifice that was made then why do we continue to free ourselves from the chains of sin if we we arelady free from his perspective. I find it admirable to try to overcome sins that hold you back as long as you don't try to become sinless because the only one who has ever been without sin is Jesus at the same time I detest anyone who uses his grace to do as they please.

The way I see it we need to understand who and what we are in him and we need to simply keep moving forwards living according to his word and when we stumble which we will to know that we are saved by the arms of his grace get right back up and keep moving forwards

 

[luigi]

Romans 10:4

To follow laws that are not in your heart is a heavy yoke to bear. Whereas, after overcoming my carnal sins which the Lord freed me from having to serve; to then follow the Lord's Spirit that is now in my heart, and which complies with the law, is a light burden/yoke to bear.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You see very well with the Word brother.

“Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. And he said, Lord, I believe.

And he worshipped him.

And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see;

and that they which see might be made blind.”
‭‭John‬ ‭9:35-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when I realized I had been blind and deaf , I began to let Jesus heal
My eyes And ears so I could begin hearing and seeing . I’m beginning I think to grow a bit and have a little better sight , than I used to , only because it’s focused on Christ.

I believe that renewing our minds , learning to think like Christ taught us is how God writes his laws upon our hearts , written upon our minds and conscience so that the spirit In the word leads us where we go .

the knowledge Becoming a part of us based on whether we accept and believe or reject and deny his word of power and authority

 

[luigi]

The issue I have is when people try to become sinless following the sinless doctrine that one in particular I have seen destroy far to many young believers and even some veteran believers who try as they as might could not live to those standards the spirit may be willing but the flesh is weak.

I always question who are we in Christ, are we brought into his kingdom or not because sin cannot abide in his kingdom but if this is true then what was the point of Jesus dying if we strive to become perfect and without sin then didi his blood really wash us clean and if not then how many times must we pin him to the cross in order to be seen as pure clean and righteous in his eyes.

Then I ask myself and if we are in fact clean pure and righteous in his eyes because of his grace and the sacrifice that was made then why do we continue to free ourselves from the chains of sin if we we arelady free from his perspective. I find it admirable to try to overcome sins that hold you back as long as you don't try to become sinless because the only one who has ever been without sin is Jesus at the same time I detest anyone who uses his grace to do as they please.

The way I see it we need to understand who and what we are in him and we need to simply keep moving forwards living according to his word and when we stumble which we will to know that we are saved by the arms of his grace get right back up and keep moving forwards

All I can say again is that we have to take all the Word together, and not just piecemeal. The Lord has freed us from the bondage to sin. Believers only now sin if they so choose to, and not because they are still bound to sin. We are to overcome as directed to do.

 

[Blain]

All I can say again is that we have to take all the Word together, and not just piecemeal. The Lord has freed us from the bondage to sin. Believers only now sin if they so choose to, and not because they are still bound to sin. We are to overcome as directed to do.

I just live according to one of my favorite verses in one of my favorite books in the bible Galatians 5:13-14 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Aside from that I don't over complicate it

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

The Lord is in the volume of the whole bible. We need to hold to all the Word, and not just cherry pick some verses, taking them out of context, which deny other verses, just so that we may feel good about continuing to live for our flesh. To believe in Christ is to believe in all Christ taught.

We might say we agree with God’s Word, we might say we are trusting in what God has said, but without FAITH in the blood of Jesus/The Gospel, there will be no Light nor Life experience, for the Life is in the Blood and the Blood of The Lamb alone (Leviticus 17:11, Luke 22:20, Revelation 21:23).

 

[Dino246]

We might say we agree with God’s Word, we might say we are trusting in what God has said, but without FAITH in the blood of Jesus/The Gospel, there will be no Light nor Life experience, for the Life is in the Blood and the Blood of The Lamb alone (Leviticus 17:11, Luke 22:20, Revelation 21:23).

Yes, Jesus shed His blood for our sins. However, we need to keep these things in their proper order of importance:

JESUS shed His blood,

not

Jesus shed His BLOOD.

Our faith is to be in Jesus Christ and His finished work, which includes incarnation, ministry, death, resurrection, and ascension, not in "the blood of Jesus". The post quoted above is what results from fancy orating ("preaching") without sound biblical instruction.