What exactly is our soul?

[biblestudent78]

The core of our thoughts and emotions are our brains. Are the synonymous with our soul? Or do is there another anatomical location? I appreciate a metaphor as much as the next person.
David actively commanded his soul to bless God to stir up worship and avoid forgetting God's benefits. Wrestling with Depression/Despair: David asked, "Why are you cast down, O my soul? and why are you disquieted within me?" (Psalm 42:5, 43:5). He acknowledged intense sorrow, weariness, and grief (Psalm 6:6). Despite inner turmoil, David urged his soul to "hope in God". He declared that his soul clung to God for protection (Psalm 63:8). In Psalm 131, David speaks of having a "calm and quiet" soul, like a quieted child, indicating a humble surrender to God's will. David declared God as his "refuge" and "portion," even when feeling that no one else cared for his soul (Psalm 142) Maskil is a musical or liturgical term; used for Psalms 32, 42, 44–45, 52–55, 74, 78, 88–89, and 142. David in a cave hiding from Saul perhaps even playing his lyre and singing. Poetry is a poor basis for theology. However, it provides a strong feeling of empathy as we all experience difficult times when we are running on empty and sensing danger all around.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I believe the passage indicates that at the resurrection we will be "given an imperishable body...which we currently do not have.

Yes I agree

But not of flesh and blood

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50-52‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Look at the section you see a constsnt comparison between the earthly body which we all have lived in and the heavenly body promosed by Christ

“And as we have borne the image of the earthy, ( present and past tense )

we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.”( future tense )
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:49‬ ‭


Paul’s really explaining well

“it is sown a natural body; ( what we have now )


it is raised a spiritual body. ( what we’ll have then )

There is a natural body,

and there is a spiritual body.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I agree though the new bodies are eternal

 

[GWH]

Did you read the post I replied to?

What post do you have in mind?
Does it make a difference to what I said, which was: Does 1Thes. 5:23, "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." not confirm that body + spirit = soul as Gen. 2:7 indicates?

 

[Gideon300]

What post do you have in mind?
Does it make a difference to what I said, which was: Does 1Thes. 5:23, "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." not confirm that body + spirit = soul as Gen. 2:7 indicates?

No. The spirit and soul are distinct. Hebrews 4:12. The problem for new believers is that the soul dominates the spirit. We have only the soul to go by before we are saved. There is natural life in the soul before we are saved. The spirit is dead to God and mostly dormant. Small children are inherently spiritual, but this is overridden by the world system that runs on the tree of knowledge.

If you read my latest post, it may help you understand what I mean.

 

[GWH]

No. The spirit and soul are distinct. Hebrews 4:12. The problem for new believers is that the soul dominates the spirit. We have only the soul to go by before we are saved. There is natural life in the soul before we are saved. The spirit is dead to God and mostly dormant. Small children are inherently spiritual, but this is overridden by the world system that runs on the tree of knowledge.

If you read my latest post, it may help you understand what I mean.

Not sure what post you mean, and not sure what Heb. 4:12 means, because it omits the body.
Whatever it means does not seem to be concerned about harmonizing Gen. 2:7 with 1Thes. 5:23.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Not sure what post you mean, and not sure what Heb. 4:12 means, because it omits the body.
Whatever it means does not seem to be concerned about harmonizing Gen. 2:7 with 1Thes. 5:23.

“not sure what Heb. 4:12 means, because it omits the body.”

Simply read the section he’s talking about oaths god has made before by his word

“Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

……..; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:1, 3-5, 7, 11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[GWH]

“not sure what Heb. 4:12 means, because it omits the body.”

Simply read the section he’s talking about oaths god has made before by his word

“Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

……..; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:1, 3-5, 7, 11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So you agree that Heb. 4:12 is not concerned with defining the soul but rather with discerning what is in souls' hearts/minds?
Do you agree that soul = body + spirit?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So you agree that Heb. 4:12 is not concerned with defining the soul but rather with discerning what is in souls' hearts/minds?
Do you agree that soul = body + spirit?

Yes I’m saying Hebrews 4 isn’t trying to define the makeup of a living soul . And yes I agree a person with a body and spirit …..is a living soul


My point was only regarding Hebrews 4 it’s self explainitory if the whole section is observed

 

[Roger316]

So hel

So help me out here. Is it your understanding that humans have a body, soul and spirit and all are separate? If so which arrives in heaven or hell?

From what I understand, the three parts can't exist apart from each other. As others have already pointed out, when God unites the body with a spirit, the two form a living being -- a living soul.

Bear in mind that in the Hebrew scriptures, a person's occupation is also included in the definition of the soul. Refer to Genesis chapter 4.

 

[GWH]

Yes I’m saying Hebrews 4 isn’t trying to define the makeup of a living soul . And yes I agree a person with a body and spirit …..is a living soul


My point was only regarding Hebrews 4 it’s self explainitory if the whole section is observed

Okay, but I guess it should have been addressed to Gideon.

 

[Genez]

The soul, being body + spirit, is never separate from either.
The physical body is translated into a spiritual body per 1Cor. 15:35-50.
The human spirit is united with the HS in believers (Rom. 5:5, 8:23).

Some confuse "spiritual body" to mean "spirit body."

The resurrection body will have its own kind of flesh.
It will have real mass and form.

As Adam's body consisted of the elements of the earth?
So shall our resurrection body consist of the elements of Heaven.

The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven."​

​

1 Corinthians 15:47​

Just wanted to clarify that at this time.

Grace and peace!

 

[Burn1986]

As far as I can determine, the Hebrew Bible does not contain the concept that humans have a soul. Historically, one can see in the struggles during the worst of the Greek persecutions in the 3rd and 2nd centuries BC, a growing spiritual crisis brought on by Greek brutality. "How can God let us be so persecuted by such evil men but we all wind up in the same place after death?" (sheol - essentially the grave) Thus, parts of the book of Daniel written in the 160's BC begin to express a desire for postmortem divine reward and punishment. The apocryphal books authored in this period extensively fantasize about a vibrant afterlife but do not evolve clearly a theology of what 1st century Christians would call the soul.

Prior Egyptian theology had clear concepts of the soul by not always fully separate from the body, thus they embalmed their Pharaohs and important people for their trip through the afterlife, but provided food and tools they may need to use after death.

Over time, after the 4th century AD, Christian theology now the state religion, the soul slowly became the "true identity" and "true value" of a human being. Thus, it was not long before the idea was it was just and proper to torcher the body to save the soul demonstrating what was valuable about a human was only their soul. Many Christians, both Roman Catholic and Protestant had no qualms about burning people at the stake because their bodies were immaterial and in their pain and suffering their soul might find salvation. Christians launched 3 major Crusades against various groups including Muslims enabled and emboldened by the Popes (several) promise of eternal salvation of the their souls should they die. Christianity, by and large, came to believe that our soul is our "true self."

As we do not experience anything in life that we can call our soul separate from our consciousness, if our soul is our true self, how would we know that if we did not read about it? Is there a relationship between or mind and what we think is our soul? Or is our soul undetectable by our minds or bodies? If it is undetectable, how can our souls be any part of us? Is our soul customized in some way that makes it "ours?" Does our souls contain memories separate and apart from our brains or minds? Most Christians believe in some way that when our souls get to heaven we will retain all the memories that once only our brains retained. So, do our souls have memories and thoughts and emotions that exactly match what we have in our brains now? Is there any other characteristic about our soul other than we believe it eternal? Does our soul play any detectable part in our daily life? Is there anyway to connect to our soul except through our imagination? If our soul is our "true self" how would we know that other than having been told that? Is our soul the non-human part of being human?

Or is our concept of the soul the universal human experience fueled by of our inability to see our death as final?

Another one of your “Look at how knowledgeable I am” threads. Lemme guess, you have a lot of leather-bound books and you little seminary apt smells of rich mahogany?

 

[Genez]

As far as I can determine, the Hebrew Bible does not contain the concept that humans have a soul. Historically, one can see in the struggles during the worst of the Greek persecutions in the 3rd and 2nd centuries BC, a growing spiritual crisis brought on by Greek brutality. "How can God let us be so persecuted by such evil men but we all wind up in the same place after death?" (sheol - essentially the grave) Thus, parts of the book of Daniel written in the 160's BC begin to express a desire for postmortem divine reward and punishment. The apocryphal books authored in this period extensively fantasize about a vibrant afterlife but do not evolve clearly a theology of what 1st century Christians would call the soul.

Prior Egyptian theology had clear concepts of the soul by not always fully separate from the body, thus they embalmed their Pharaohs and important people for their trip through the afterlife, but provided food and tools they may need to use after death.

Over time, after the 4th century AD, Christian theology now the state religion, the soul slowly became the "true identity" and "true value" of a human being. Thus, it was not long before the idea was it was just and proper to torcher the body to save the soul demonstrating what was valuable about a human was only their soul. Many Christians, both Roman Catholic and Protestant had no qualms about burning people at the stake because their bodies were immaterial and in their pain and suffering their soul might find salvation. Christians launched 3 major Crusades against various groups including Muslims enabled and emboldened by the Popes (several) promise of eternal salvation of the their souls should they die. Christianity, by and large, came to believe that our soul is our "true self."

As we do not experience anything in life that we can call our soul separate from our consciousness, if our soul is our true self, how would we know that if we did not read about it? Is there a relationship between or mind and what we think is our soul? Or is our soul undetectable by our minds or bodies? If it is undetectable, how can our souls be any part of us? Is our soul customized in some way that makes it "ours?" Does our souls contain memories separate and apart from our brains or minds? Most Christians believe in some way that when our souls get to heaven we will retain all the memories that once only our brains retained. So, do our souls have memories and thoughts and emotions that exactly match what we have in our brains now? Is there any other characteristic about our soul other than we believe it eternal? Does our soul play any detectable part in our daily life? Is there anyway to connect to our soul except through our imagination? If our soul is our "true self" how would we know that other than having been told that? Is our soul the non-human part of being human?

Or is our concept of the soul the universal human experience fueled by of our inability to see our death as final?

In spite of all you threw against the wall to see what would stick?
What difference does all that make?

We have a soul.
It is our soul what Jesus saves.

​

For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned
to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. 1 Peter 2:25​

You want to deny that???????

 

[biblestudent78]

In spite of all you threw against the wall to see what would stick?
What difference does all that make?

We have a soul.
It is our soul what Jesus saves.

​

For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned ​

to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. 1 Peter 2:25​

You want to deny that???????

So Jesus cares nothing about your "none soul life". His commands in Matthew 24 and 25 are just for unsaved people? How has your "return to the shepherd and overseer of you changed you? Does your family know? All of them? Do those you work with see it? Does those you minister to for food, clothing, the orphans and widows know you by name?

 

[Genez]

So Jesus cares nothing about your "none soul life". His commands in Matthew 24 and 25 are just for unsaved people? How has your "return to the shepherd and overseer of you changed you? Does your family know? All of them? Do those you work with see it? Does those you minister to for food, clothing, the orphans and widows know you by name?

I am having a hard time following what you actually believe.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Okay, but I guess it should have been addressed to Gideon.

Ye it was meant to support your point but understood god bless

 

[Pilgrimshope]

In spite of all you threw against the wall to see what would stick?
What difference does all that make?

We have a soul.
It is our soul what Jesus saves.

​

For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned ​

to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. 1 Peter 2:25​

You want to deny that???????

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬


If we consider that in the beginning

Then things like this make perfect sense

“Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i don’t think a soul is something we have unless we reject that a soul is what man is . If we accept genesis 2 there then we could be hearing “ you will find rest u to your “ selves “ because remember in genesis 2 a soul is what man became

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what if it’s meant to mean “ the engrafted word is able to save your “whole selves “ or your “ being “ or “ who you are “ or “ your person “

then it doesn’t really get confusing nd we don’t look at a “ soul “ as a possession we have but rather we are a living soul that Christ is come to save because we’re sick with sin and bound to death ……

 

[tablet123]

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Pro 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

All spirits go back to God who gave them regardless of how the person behaved on earth.

No person retains their spirit in the afterlife and is not part on them.

The spirit is our connection to God.

Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

No person retains their flesh in the afterlife and is not part of them.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Psa 34:22 The LORD redeemeth the soul of his servants: and none of them that trust in him shall be desolate.

Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

There is a part of people that will be saved that is retained that is not spirit or flesh that will be either be a soul in a glorified body in heaven or a soul in hell.

Call it what you want.

 

[Genez]

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬


If we consider that in the beginning

Then things like this make perfect sense

“Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i don’t think a soul is something we have unless we reject that a soul is what man is . If we accept genesis 2 there then we could be hearing “ you will find rest u to your “ selves “ because remember in genesis 2 a soul is what man became

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what if it’s meant to mean “ the engrafted word is able to save your “whole selves “ or your “ being “ or “ who you are “ or “ your person “

then it doesn’t really get confusing nd we don’t look at a “ soul “ as a possession we have but rather we are a living soul that Christ is come to save because we’re sick with sin and bound to death ……

When we die?
And, it takes place before the resurrection?

What will go to heaven as ourselves?
It will be our souls.

Here!

Look what it says... In Heaven souls can be seen and heard!

​

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain ​

for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, ​

saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who ​

dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them ​

that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and ​

their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.​

​

Revelation 6:9-11​

The soul is what we are without a body.
A living soul is a soul that has regeneration.
Being - - soul and human spirit.

Dead soul = only a soul, no human spirit.
Let the dead bury their own dead!

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, ​

but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”​

​

Luke 9:60​

 

[Pilgrimshope]

When we die?
And, it takes place before the resurrection?

What will go to heaven as ourselves?
It will be our souls.

Here!

Look what it says... In Heaven souls can be seen and heard!

​

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain ​

for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, ​

saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who ​

dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them ​

that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and ​

their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.​

​

Revelation 6:9-11​

The soul is what we are without a body.
A living soul is a soul that has regeneration.
Being - - soul and human spirit.

Dead soul = only a soul, no human spirit.
Let the dead bury their own dead!

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, ​

but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”​

​

Luke 9:60​

“When we die?
And, it takes place before the resurrection?”


what ?



“What will go to heaven as ourselves?
It will be our souls.”

….. right we are the souls already

It’s not something independent of us that we possess. It’s the combination of a living spirit and a body.

1 body plus 1 spirit equals 1 living soul. The creation itself is the living soul

the basis of what I’m saying simply needs to acknowledge what man is at creation

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.


And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man ( the living soul ) whom he had formed.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s not that we posess a soul , it’s that our whole being is a soul . We have a body and a living spirit from God , but we are a soul.

If we don’t acknowledge that then it sounds like a soul is something we posess and not a reference to what we are or “our being “

you are a living soul , when it’s said that “your soul can be saved “it’s talking about you being saved , your person. The living being God created you have a body now of flesh and blood but at the resurrection will have a permanent spiritual body that your spirit will dwell within and you’ll still be a living soul but ……. A glorified eternal one through Christ and the gospel promises