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SovereignGrace said:
Pelagius? He was considered a heretic of the worst kind, as he averred babies are born tabula rasa[I/].
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Of course Pelagius was called a heretic. He was contra Augustine. As for babies being born 'tabula rasa' - "a clean slate" - we can agree.

When does a person become responsible for their actions? When does a person become, "a sinner?" At conception? At birth? At some age-of-accountability? Christians have been debating this issue for millennia. If it wasn't for this question there wouldn't have been Anabaptists or modern day Baptists; Amish or Mennonites.

SovereignGrace said:
All you have to do is watch infants. You do not have to teach them to lie, steal, hit, &c. That's already built into them via the fall of Adam. However, you do have to teach them to not steal, lie, hit other ppl, &c. Babies are not born sinless at all. As Dr. Voddie Baucham said, "They're vipers with diapers."
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Are you suggesting infants lie, steal, or consciously comprehend what it means to violate any of the Ten Commandments?
 
Pilgrim33 said:
Of course Pelagius was called a heretic. He was contra Augustine. As for babies being born 'tabula rasa' - "a clean slate" - we can agree.

When does a person become responsible for their actions? When does a person become, "a sinner?" At conception? At birth? At some age-of-accountability? Christians have been debating this issue for millennia. If it wasn't for this question there wouldn't have been Anabaptists or modern day Baptists, Amish or Mennonites.



Are you suggesting infants lie, steal, or consciously comprehend what it means to violate any of the Ten Commandments?
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Yes infants lie and steal. Its built into them via the fall. Personally, I do not believe God holds them accountable for it, though.
 
Brothers, we are hijacking this thread. My apologies for my part in it to the author of the OP.

If you wish to discuss this further, please start another thread and I'll jump in when and where I can. Thanks in advance.
 
SovereignGrace said:
Yes infants lie and steal. Its built into them via the fall. Personally, I do not believe God holds them accountable for it, though.
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I appreciate your concession, SovereignGrace. Do you think Paul would have held infants accountable? Considering his statements in Romans 5:12; First Corinthians 15:21,22 there is an argument to think he would have everyone deemed 'a sinner'.
 
Pilgrim33 said:
I appreciate your concession, SovereignGrace. Do you think Paul would have held infants accountable? Considering his statements in Romans 5:12; First Corinthians 15:21,22 there is an argument to think he would have everyone deemed 'a sinner'.
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I started a new thread. I will answer this over there. Okay?
 
SovereignGrace said:
Psalm 58 begs to differ with your stance in the above.

Adam, as mankind's representative, plunge himself and his posterity in sin when he openly rebelled against His Creator. He was our federal head. When he fell, we being in Adam, fell as well.
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Psalm does not differ with what I wrote, nobody is forced to lie and steel and do evil, they choose to do so, some at a early age, Adam may have stumbled but he did not fall, we have the choice to obey God or satan, Deut.30:19 its our choice. God bless
 
celib said:
Psalm does not differ with what I wrote, nobody is forced to lie and steel and do evil, they choose to do so, some at a early age, Adam may have stumbled but he did not fall, we have the choice to obey God or satan, Deut.30:19 its our choice. God bless
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Hey Brother, let's not continue hijacking this thread. I started another thread and I will copy-and-paste this post and answer it there. Deal?

Here is the link to that new thread...

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/159437-adams-fall-its-consequences.html
 
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