what has been fulfilled?
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You aren't saying why it's bogus.
Watch that youtube link. What religion hates Israel? What religion makes up 1/4 of the earth (4th seal)? What religion beheads? What religion throws dust on their heads to mourn? What religion do the nations of Ez 38 follow? What religion lost its heritage (Ismael was Abraham's first born) and was born of a harlot, not a bride?
What religion has it's calendar based on lunar cycles instead of days or solar cycles? (Hint: When you see prophesy given in months, it applies to Muslims).
What religion worships a black stone (image fallen from the sky)? We are given a White Stone, they worship a Black Stone, the Kaaba.
What religion has a false prophet (Muhammad) who deceived them all?
What religion has a false god (Allah) who is called, "the God of the Universe" making him "above all other gods? Our God calls Himself, "the God of the whole earth."
What religion chants "Allahu Akbar" which means "God (Allah) is Greatest" and places this phrase on the tallest clock tower in the world in Mecca?
What religion has its holy city located in the wilderness, near a busy shipping lane (Red Sea)?
What religion Deceives? It's all about deception, deception, deception!!
What religion teaches "kill thine enemies" while we teach "love thy enemies?"
What religion has the most KINGS?
What religion has the most income disparity? (filthy rich vs. dirt poor)
What religion is called, "the Destroying Mountain" by Jeremiah?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]“Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain, Who destroys all the earth,” says the Lord. “And I will stretch out My hand against you, Roll you down from the rocks, And make you a burnt mountain.
The above discusses the judgment of Babylon. The below discusses the deception of Babylon before she's judged. Doesn't the above sound eerily similar to this?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
This makes Islam "the Sea." We find the "sea" in Rev 13.
You see Islam was a mystery to John because it wouldn't exist for another 500+ years. However, the clues for us are everywhere!!!
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BUZZZ WRONG!! She was a HARLOT, but she is decidedly not Mystery Babylon. Remember, Mystery Babylon is the MOTHER OF ALL HARLOTS.
Here's why. You have to take ALL OF THE CLUES, not just some of them. I'll leave you with this list of why it isn't Jerusalem. Gotta run.
1.Among smallest Religion <.5%
2.Not part of a 7 kingdom succession
3.Few peoples/nations worship her
4.Not Similar to former Babylon
5.Not Located in a Wilderness/Desert
6.John did not recognize her
7.No Kings of Earth Fornicate with her
8.Doesn’t Behead People
9.Not Near a busy seaport
10.Few get rich from selling her “goods”
11.Merchants would rejoice at demise
12.Can’t be destroyed as Christ returns
to Jerusalem and reigns from there
plain, read Bookends' 15 reasons why Jerusalem was Mystery Babylon
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/47873-who-babylon-great-harlot.html
dunno if the thread devolves or whatever, just read his stuff.
k. later. up since 2, tired.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/47873-who-babylon-great-harlot.html
dunno if the thread devolves or whatever, just read his stuff.
k. later. up since 2, tired.
I've debated Bookends on the subject before. There is no doubt that there was harlotry involved with Israel from Egypt until at least Christ. But Israel never originated the false worship, they merely fell into false worship with those around them.
As for being Mystery Babylon, the Great?? No way!! Impossible. Israel was never part of the 7 headed beast. You have to understand what the beast is to identify the harlot she carries. Each head represents a successive evil empire that dominated their region (including the Levant). Each head had a religion(s) with sun and moon worship (which is against the 1st commandment).
John did not recognize the harlot, thus it was a mystery to him. Therefore, the religion could not be known to him at the time he saw the harlot. Judaism certainly would be known to him as would Jerusalem. John was taken to a wilderness and shown the harlot. Jerusalem is not in a wilderness, Mecca is.
Just look at the symbols in use by Islam. The chief cornerstone of the Kaaba, their holiest site and place they must all go once in their lifetime, and place they face when they bow to pray 5 times a day, is a black stone. We are given a white stone (our piece in our spiritual temple of which Christ is our chief cornerstone). The harlot is called, "Babylon." Just look at how they were to worship in Dan 3:
“To you it is commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages, [SUP]5 [/SUP]that at the time you hear the sound of the horn, flute, harp, lyre, and psaltery, in symphony with all kinds of music, you shall fall down and worship the gold image that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up; [SUP]6 [/SUP]and whoever does not fall down and worship shall be cast immediately into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.” [SUP]7 [/SUP]So at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the horn, flute, harp, and lyre, in symphony with all kinds of music, all the people, nations, and languages fell down and worshiped the gold image which King Nebuchadnezzar had set up.
They fall down and worship the image WHEN MUSIC IS PLAYED. So do the Muslims!!! Look at the musical instruments being played back in Babylon. I highlighted them for you. Now look at the instruments of Rev 18 when the new Babylon is destroyed.
“Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. [SUP]22 [/SUP]The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore.
Ever hear Muslim call to worship music? The Jews don't worship like this. The Jews don't fall down in groups based on the position of the sun. Muslims do. Their symbol is the Crescent (moon) and star. We are told NOT TO WORSHIP THEM!!
As Bookends points out, in Revelation they are described as the sea. Doesn't this look like a sea to you?
BTW, 57 nations are predominately ISLAMIC. How many are predominately Jewish?
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a figurative revelation????? What about the flood was it figurative, the parting of the reed sea, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah as was the crucifixtion of Jesus Christ.....All in our minds........
Yeah,, right------
A
Ariel82
Guest
https://books.google.com/books?id=V...IJzAB#v=onepage&q=nero defiles temple&f=false
It talks about defile both the temple and the fortress and their destruction around 66-70 AD
It talks about defile both the temple and the fortress and their destruction around 66-70 AD
The sun being darkened and the moon no longer giving her light are figurative Prove-All.
Genesis 1:14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs...."
The sun and the moon are symbolic. What are they symbolic of?
Genesis 37:9 He had another dream, and told it to his brothers, saying, “Look, I have had another dream: the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”
I leave that as an open question. Once you get over that hurdle, the Olivet prophecies are way easier to understand.
Genesis 1:14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs...."
The sun and the moon are symbolic. What are they symbolic of?
Genesis 37:9 He had another dream, and told it to his brothers, saying, “Look, I have had another dream: the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”
I leave that as an open question. Once you get over that hurdle, the Olivet prophecies are way easier to understand.
LOL. Of course those things were literal. At age 65, is this the first time you are hearing that Revelation was written in apocalyptic literary style (which was very common) employing much symbolism from the OT? The truth is most of John's symbolism (figurative language) is found in the OT as are his teachings.
Example:
Jer 5:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Therefore thus says the Lord God of hosts:“Because you speak this word, Behold, I will make My words in your mouth fire, And this people wood, And it shall devour them.
Did God really turn Jeremiah into a fire breathing man? Were the people literally turned into wood? When Jeremiah spoke, did literal fire spew from his mouth burning up all the wooden people? If you recognize the symbolism here, then recognize it below too.
Rev 11: [SUP]5 [/SUP]And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies.
Same symbolism. Men do not breath fire and burn up their enemies.
True Meaning for both passages: The Words of God spoken by His prophet and witnesses are so powerful and so true that those hearing God's Words are blown away by them and cannot refute them. We saw this phenomenon a lot when Jesus spoke to the Pharisees.
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Hello Zone,
I'll give you one very good reason why Jerusalem is not Mystery Babylon:
In Rev.17:16 scripture states the following regarding the woman who rides the beast, Mystery Babylon, that city that sits on seven hills:
"The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. "
The results of the beast and the ten kings destruction of Mystery Babylon are as follows:
* The music of harpists and musicians, pipers and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again.
* No worker of any trade will ever be found in you again.
* The sound of a millstone will never be heard in you again.
* The light of a lamp will never shine in you again.
* The voice of bridegroom and bride will never be heard in you again.
The above demonstrates that, the destruction that the beast and the ten kings bring upon Mystery Babylon, will be permanent so that no one will ever inhabit that city again. That destruction takes place sometime during that last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period.
Now, here is the reason that Jerusalem cannot be Mystery Babylon:
"When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them." - Rev.20:7
According to the scripture above, at the end of the thousand years, Gog and Magog surround "the camp of God's people, the city that he loves," which can only be referring to Jerusalem, which is where Christ will be ruling from during the millennial period. The scripture demonstrates that people will be inhabiting Jerusalem during the millennial period. In opposition, Mystery Babylon is destroyed prior to the millennial period so that it will it will never be inhabited again.
Conclusion: Jerusalem cannot be not Mystery Babylon
One would also have to ask the question, if Jerusalem was Mystery Babylon and she was utterly destroyed, then why would God protect her during the war of Ezekiel 38-39, which is still future?
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no they didn't. the US helped.
anyway....with superior arms and intelligence you can beat 5 inferior armies.
big deal.
Ahwatukee,
I appreciate all the work you've done BUT: we can't help each other much.
you're deeply involved in a system I examined and rejected long ago.
no going back.
zone.
What isn't written? This?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. [SUP]4 [/SUP]The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And on her forehead a name was written:
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
OF THE EARTH.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.
1. John was taken into the wilderness. Which city is in the "wilderness" or desert, Jerusalem or Mecca?
2. Why would John be amazed if the Harlot was something he had seen before?
3. The Islamic Ottoman Empire from 1,299 to 1,922 killed 50 million Christians. Would that qualify them as a religion with the blood of saints and martyrs on their hands? ISIS is adding to the death count.
4. What would the names of blasphemy of Judaism be?
5. What do the 7 heads and 10 horns of Judaism represent?
6. Was John taken back in time or into the future (of 96 AD)?
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Good for you Zone. I love the man as a brother in Christ but he is so wrapped up in the idea of a pre-trib rapture and 7- year world- wide tribulation that he can't see straight anymore.
Matthew 24
Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple
1Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. 2But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
Signs of the End of the Age
3As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” 4And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. 5For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. 6And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
9“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. 10And then many will fall awaya and betray one another and hate one another. 11And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
The Abomination of Desolation
15“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand. 26So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
The Coming of the Son of Man
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Lesson of the Fig Tree
32“From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple
1Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. 2But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
Signs of the End of the Age
3As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” 4And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. 5For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. 6And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
9“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. 10And then many will fall awaya and betray one another and hate one another. 11And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
The Abomination of Desolation
15“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand. 26So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
The Coming of the Son of Man
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Lesson of the Fig Tree
32“From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
All what things? What false Christ(s) were there between 30 AD and 70 AD? Name those who came after Christ but before the destruction of the Temple who came claiming to be Christ. Jesus gives three warnings about false Christs in Mat 24. Please name some of the false christs and the miracles they performed to lead people astray during this period, if you can
.Was the gospel preached in all the world before the Temple was destroyed?
Were those who endured to the end of the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD saved?
You see, I don't think the "you" of verse 33 referred to the disciples as all of them would be dead before 70 AD except for John. I think the "you" refers to Israel. That's my view anyway.
If we are already at the end, why are people still dying and none of us are like angels?
I already answered all that.
it may all be true about islam, and God knows.
BUT - He was always dealing with ISRAEL.
she was the whore who forsook Him and went awhoring after others gods.
please look into what condition Israel was in when Jesus came.
all the exorcisms - the bible and history reveal the demonic overflow in Israel at that time.
they were clining to Babylonian garbage they had picked up while in captivity.
they were sacrificing children; fornication; adultery; witchcraft;...etc etc etc - ALL IDOLATRY, as usual for the apostates.
islam is also idolatry, but it was not the focus of God's plan according to His law...Israel was.
Jesus came to His own, and He only ever went to them (and the Samaritans, 1/2 jewish).
then he appointed paul to go to the gentiles.
THE HARLOT:
"Revelation is all about God’s displeasure with the holders of the Old Covenant, and the establishment of the New Covenant. The following points show that Babylon as portrayed in Revelation is symbolic for Jerusalem."....
Babylon = Jerusalem