Pure fantasy. Israel will in fact receive their Messiah Yeshua as King yet future. And soon.
What if Daniel did have a gap between the 69th and 70th weeks?
- Thread starter Dave-L
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Had you carefully examined the prophecy of the 70 Weeks, you would not have made such a rash statement. However, it takes both spiritual discernment and a knowledge of world conditions to see that there is indeed a gap in this prophecy. And the way to understand it is to ask yourself "Has Christ literally established everlasting righteousness on earth? And if He actually has, then why is there nothing but sin and evil worldwide at the present time?"
Daniel's prophecy demands that in order to be fulfilled there MUST be universal and everlasting peace and righteousness on earth.
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. (Dan 9:24)
And this can only happen when another prophecy of Daniel is fulfilled.
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man [Christ] came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought Him near before Him. And there was given Him dominion, and glory, and a Kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his Kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. (Dan 7:13,14)
Since the crucifixion of Christ, this has certainly not happened. The evil nations of China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran continue with their dastardly deeds. To say nothing of all the other evil nations and people worldwide, and all the criminals and evildoers in every part of the world.
But that would all have been gone had these two prophecies been fulfilled. And thus we have the Gap of the Church Age right now. The Gospel must be preached throughout the world before the end comes.
Sorry gents' you are both wrong. The 70th week includes the 66-70 AD destruction/determination on "thy holy city"
(Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy)
Apostate Israel was judged and the city destroyed in the generation that heard Jesus speak (this generation shall not pass) - you cant insert a gap anywhere in Dan 9:24.
There is no gap between "seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city" (or any other of the elements that follow to) "finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy".
The determination upon the city was accomplished during the siege of the city when it was compassed with armies:
(Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh)
(Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.)
(Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.)
(Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy)
Apostate Israel was judged and the city destroyed in the generation that heard Jesus speak (this generation shall not pass) - you cant insert a gap anywhere in Dan 9:24.
There is no gap between "seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city" (or any other of the elements that follow to) "finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy".
The determination upon the city was accomplished during the siege of the city when it was compassed with armies:
(Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh)
(Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.)
(Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.)
This is not a correct notion, that it is His "NEW program".
This was planned "BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world"
That is not the idea you are conveying in your comment above ^ .
Verse 32's "ALL" ('till ALL be fulfilled') necessarily INCLUDES everything that verse 24 had already just mentioned, and there are TWO ITEMS of "lengthy-duration" in that verse (...include verse 24's own "UNTIL" word).
To quote verse 32 APART from its CONTEXT (which Subject INCLUDES the TWO "LENGTHY-DURATION" ITEMS just mentioned in v.24) is to present a faulty picture
Facepalm. No. You desperately need to get on you knees and plead to God for wisdom and understanding. And flee from whatever so-called Church you now attend and find one that takes prophecy seriously.
Verse 24's ITEMS [<--necessarily INCLUDED in v.32's "till ALL be fulfilled"] -
--"and [they] shall be led away captive into all the nations:
--and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, UNTIL the TIMES of the Gentiles be fulfilled"
[note: 'the TIMES of the Gentiles' referring to that which started in 606/605bc, involves Neb's dream/statue/image, with Neb as "head of gold," and represents "Gentile domination over Israel" (not "the Church age"!); and is DISTINCT from the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles"]
--"and [they] shall be led away captive into all the nations:
--and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, UNTIL the TIMES of the Gentiles be fulfilled"
[note: 'the TIMES of the Gentiles' referring to that which started in 606/605bc, involves Neb's dream/statue/image, with Neb as "head of gold," and represents "Gentile domination over Israel" (not "the Church age"!); and is DISTINCT from the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles"]
You do undertand that Luke 21 differs significantly from Mark 13 and Matt 24 ( which are parallel) yes? Because you are conflating these accounts.
There are some different statements, only dispensationalists will argue they aren't about the same events and times.
All three tell the Jewish Christians to flee Judea.
(Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains)
(Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains)
(Luke 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto)
Maybe some flee powder would help?
The warning to flee is for 2 different audiences at 2 different times. Right?
Wrong. Go youtube, type in "Chuck Missler Luke 21". That will begin to clarify your misunderstanding.
Then so are you going to tell us what the AoD is that they saw that caused them to know to flee?
I was hoping you could tell us.
Interesting that Luke and Matt use "desolation is nigh" or "abomination of desolation" Can you explain why or why we should think there is any difference?
In post #249 it is not I who said that some flee power would help but rather you who said it. Now Paul went to Jerusalem in ad57(Acts 21) and James suggest that he make an offering at the Temple of God and Paul did so it would make no sense to think James,Paul or the others saw an abomination there at that time. In 62ad James is killed in Jerusalem so it is apparent that he had not seen the AoD and fled so it would be also after ad62. Seeing that you are who is suggesting it was there and seen it should be you who explains it correct?
Well in this case James couldn't flee and wasn't around to see Jerusalem compassed with Roman armies in 66 AD was he?
Nope in fact it would mean that at the time he died the AoD,the image and mark were not present and so none were buying or selling with an mark,number or worshiping an image would you agree? If so then it could only all fit into the 8 years(62-70ad) and so would you explain please what it is you see in that frame of time that leads you to say it is fulfilled?
So regale us if you will of exactly how 66AD or 70AD or whatever relates to Daniels 70 week prophesy.
Hint: it does not, never did, never will. The math simply does not work.
I don't know for sure how the mark was manifested and at what time frame it was in (other than the 1st century). John relates it but it does not appear in any of the gospels or other letters. So attempting to explain it is not something I really concern myself with.
But if you want to delve into revelation look at what Jesus said about "mountains fall on us" and what John stated in his revelation:
(Luke 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.)
(Luke 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck)
(Luke 23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.)
John in his revelation:
(Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood)
.
.
(Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb)
(Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?)
John specifically uses the "fall on us" motif of Jesus with the women of Jerusalem which indicates the sixth seal was in the women's lifetime.
(Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John)