What if repentance is not about feeling guilty, regretful or ashamed? How do you define repentance?

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if a person doesn't feel guilty about committing sin & you repented, there's something missing big time. there's no such thing as a born again Christian NOT feeling guilty after committing sin. whether it's swearing, lying, getting drunk, you are going to feel guilty. it's in our nature as born again Christians. study Hebrews 8:10. when you are convicted, converted, transformed & regenerated, you will feel guilty after committing sin.

And yet we have all these reformed people going around telling everyone they were born sinners, they sin in thought word and deed every day, and they cannot stop sinning.

It's no wonder people out in the world laugh at Christians after hearing the reformed nutjobs teach their false gospel claiming it's what the Lord teaches.
 
The fella described in Romans 7 says he is sold under sin which is how we know he is not a Christian.

You really need to keep reading and understand that Romans 8 provides the answer to Romans 7

That is if you want to be led by the Holy Spirit instead of what carnal minded religious traditions teach that came from the devil who taught the reformers to ignore God's Word and listen to him instead.

The devil is very religious. He goes to church every Sunday to lead pastors and teachers to teach carnal minded religious traditions instead of God's Word. And the devil makes it sound so plausible too for the canal minded who are easily deceived because they don't study God's Word for themselves.

No, they just accept what the guy up front says because if they don't they'll be kicked out of the religious social club. This is how things work in pretty much all the churches these days.

Thank you for the perfect description of yourself.
 
And yet we have all these reformed people going around telling everyone they were born sinners, they sin in thought word and deed every day, and they cannot stop sinning.

It's no wonder people out in the world laugh at Christians after hearing the reformed nutjobs teach their false gospel claiming it's what the Lord teaches.
everyone IS born a sinner. the best way anyone can tell that is you put 2 babies together to play & within a half hour 1 will start hitting the other & or, stealing his or her toys!!! no one taught them that & that's your proof. & on the other side of that is this: why do parents always have to teach their children the correct thing to do & never the wrong thing to do?
 
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everyone IS born a sinner

That's false doctrine. What actually happened was we were all born in to a world full of sin and darkness and at some point we all became aware of the difference between right and wrong and decided to go ahead and do wrong anyway and became habitual wrong doers and that became our "nature"

Romans 5:18 - Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The scripture says sin came upon all men and does not say men are born sinners or that the Lord put sin in each person when He formed them in the womb. Some are reading in to scripture things the Lord did not say, things that are not true.

The "we all born sinners" crowd likes to use Romans 5:18 to claim condemnation came upon all men but this same verse also says that righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification.

If we go by their logic then we'd all be universalists because it's clear right there in Romans 5:18 - righteousness came upon all men unto justification.

Reformed theology people are "glass half empty" people. They sure are negative seeing they use Romans 5:18 to say condemnation came up on all men and then quit read the rest of the verse which also says righteousness came upon all men unto justification.

the best way anyone can tell that is you put 2 babies together to play & within a half hour 1 will start hitting the other & or, stealing his or her toys!!! no one taught them that & that's your proof.

And your claim is the Lord put sin in to each baby when He created them?

If true, then this is claiming God mad man to be evil.
 
That's false doctrine. What actually happened was we were all born in to a world full of sin and darkness and at some point we all became aware of the difference between right and wrong and decided to go ahead and do wrong anyway and became habitual wrong doers and that became our "nature"

Romans 5:18 - Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The scripture says sin came upon all men and does not say men are born sinners or that the Lord put sin in each person when He formed them in the womb. Some are reading in to scripture things the Lord did not say, things that are not true.

The "we all born sinners" crowd likes to use Romans 5:18 to claim condemnation came upon all men but this same verse also says that righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification.

If we go by their logic then we'd all be universalists because it's clear right there in Romans 5:18 - righteousness came upon all men unto justification.

Reformed theology people are "glass half empty" people. They sure are negative seeing they use Romans 5:18 to say condemnation came up on all men and then quit read the rest of the verse which also says righteousness came upon all men unto justification.



And your claim is the Lord put sin in to each baby when He created them?

If true, then this is claiming God mad man to be evil.
no, not my claim, never thought of it or spoke it. that is absurd to think the Lord put sin into every baby! adam & eve chose to sin all on their own & sin entered the world.
 
no, not my claim, never thought of it or spoke it. that is absurd to think the Lord put sin into every baby! adam & eve chose to sin all on their own & sin entered the world.

Well you know the reformed peeps go around telling people they were born sinners and there's no hope to ever be able to stop sinning as though there's no hope but to live in sin.

After listening to some of these people it would seem the prisons are full of reformed people!
 
Well you know the reformed peeps go around telling people they were born sinners and there's no hope to ever be able to stop sinning as though there's no hope but to live in sin.

After listening to some of these people it would seem the prisons are full of reformed people!
no, i didn't know the reformers did that, thanks for telling me.
 
I know as a young believer coming up I had never come across anyone saying this until I started getting on the internet back in the late 90s.

It was surprising to hear of people that would argue in favor of living in sin claiming it was normal and not possible to control themselves to ever stop sinning. Pretty freaky stuff.

After studying reformed theology it became evident that the poor people have been deceived and cannot hear or understand the whole counsel of the Lord as laid out in scripture. Scripture twisting at it's finest!
 
:) somethings said here are we quoting or just shooting from the hip? What sin can we do that He did not die for? There's therefore no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. When I sin, God is not judging me nor condemning me. Jesus paid the full penalty for sin on the cross. Because of this, my standing before God (righteousness) is forgiven and secure. This should be it, but some come out of the woodwork and start saying, "Oh, you have a license to sin, you're saying?" I don't like saying things people (are really saying?) misquote or false attribution. Some of the talk here. We speak word of life.

Go for it..pray seek ask GOD what sin even if you never repented He is holding against you? If I think this I do not understand the His grace His mercy or what Christ did on the cross. In this I have no desire to ever sin... I hate it. I understand the flesh loves to sin has not been(its not longer I that sin but sin that is in me) changed and the new man the new spirit "me" is pure holy righteous because it is born from above. As for this talk .. they its said.. I want no part of.. speak word of life..

Repentance. It's just turning over a new leaf. Condemnation means being declared guilty by God and facing a binding sentence of spiritual judgment and separation from Him because of sin. There is therefore no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. Own it... face it get over that is how He thinks feels about you. In other word grace mercy forgiveness. Hello Jesus.. thank you for paying the price for me. So when I fall I get up dust off keep going. There are time as with us all we fall can't get up we try but we fail. He is always there to help never judging never condemning. For some this is fast for others its years. We give up on them He never ever does. Love never stops helping seeing the good. When you fall.. He is telling you "that's why I died for you". Died for me.. the good news He died for the worlds sin.. He took their place.. the good news. So help.. speak words of life.
 
There's therefore no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.

only to those who walk after the Spirit not after the flesh

Romans 8:1 - There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:13 - For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:3 tells us Jesus condemned sin in the flesh

No matter how hard people try to make it sound as though they can live in sin and still be saved, they cannot. These people are getting this idea from the devil not from what the Lord teaches in His Word.

Go for it..pray seek ask GOD what sin even if you never repented He is holding against you?

Are you saying God can be mocked and what we sow is not what we reap?

Galatians 6 tells us if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption, are you saying this is false?

God put 1 John 1:9 in His Word for a reason you know.

Do you think 1 John 1:9 is untrue and after we get saved we should not confess any sins we may commit to the Lord so He can forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness?
 
The Greek word translated repent is metanoia and means a change of mind.
An incomplete definition in the context of the New Testament. Repentance is a change of direction having failed to achieve the mark. Sometimes we see it in adult who is baptised and they are "raised to walking in a newness of life." We all change our minds daly. There to eat, what to shop for, what bank to use, etc. These are standard issues of "changing our mind."

IMHO, repentance is live change. Heart change. Priority change. Service change and prayer change. Repentance is the self-awareness needed to remain connected to God and God's beloved.
 
An incomplete definition in the context of the New Testament. Repentance is a change of direction having failed to achieve the mark. Sometimes we see it in adult who is baptised and they are "raised to walking in a newness of life." We all change our minds daly. There to eat, what to shop for, what bank to use, etc. These are standard issues of "changing our mind."

IMHO, repentance is live change. Heart change. Priority change. Service change and prayer change. Repentance is the self-awareness needed to remain connected to God and God's beloved.
does that not require a "change of mind" from your old ways to the ones you just mentioned?
So how was his definition incomplete?
 
does that not require a "change of mind" from your old ways to the ones you just mentioned?
So how was his definition incomplete?
I change my mind daily about what to watch of TV. My greatest criticism of 21st century Christianity is that is has "evolved" to a collection of "intellectual propositions" that are divorced from any lived Christian reality. Repentance only becomes important in pursuit of the mission we are called to. If we are not on that mission, what does "repentance mean?

If my sin is that I am too attached to Bourbon and I repent and commit only to drink beer, have I repented? or is what we do and what changes we make in our lives only adjustments for health, longevity and convenience or to avoid being hassled by our spouse? It is my intuition that for us married folks, repentance is more of service to her than Him.

Is the objective my repentance that I missed 14 Sunday services because the fishing was outstanding?

IMHO, repentance is the lingua franca of the committed life. It has little meaning and no theological therapy for those whose whos total priorities are on financial, social, educational, political or recreational achievement. Those prioritizing comfort, security, fun and wealth define repentance in terms of hangovers, divorces, bad business decisions and failure to attend enough church services.
 
I change my mind daily about what to watch of TV. My greatest criticism of 21st century Christianity is that is has "evolved" to a collection of "intellectual propositions" that are divorced from any lived Christian reality. Repentance only becomes important in pursuit of the mission we are called to. If we are not on that mission, what does "repentance mean?

If my sin is that I am too attached to Bourbon and I repent and commit only to drink beer, have I repented? or is what we do and what changes we make in our lives only adjustments for health, longevity and convenience or to avoid being hassled by our spouse? It is my intuition that for us married folks, repentance is more of service to her than Him.

Is the objective my repentance that I missed 14 Sunday services because the fishing was outstanding?

IMHO, repentance is the lingua franca of the committed life. It has little meaning and no theological therapy for those whose whos total priorities are on financial, social, educational, political or recreational achievement. Those prioritizing comfort, security, fun and wealth define repentance in terms of hangovers, divorces, bad business decisions and failure to attend enough church services.
The issue isn’t whether repentance is “intellectual propositions,” it’s whether the heart actually turns toward the One calling — everything else (habits, addictions, priorities) flows from that turn.
 
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IMHO, the word repentance may have been misunderstood by Christians for generations. In English it sounds like guilt, regret, and endless apology. But the original Hebrew word is teshuva, derived from the verb shuv, meaning to return. Not to feel sorry. To physically turn around and move in a completely different direction. Our Understanding of this single word could reframe everything Jesus meant when He said repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For easy reference:
Matthew 4:17: "From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.'"Mark 1:15: "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." Luke 13:3 & 13:5: "No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."Luke 5:32: "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance." Jesus taught that heaven celebrates when a person repents, comparing it to a lost item being found or a prodigal child returning home (Luke 15:7, 10).
There are a number of ways where Eve's desires influenced her perception (Genesis 3:6) and our desires cloud our judgements so that if we lean only on our own understanding of good and evil, then we can't be sure if something is truly good of if we just think that it is good because we desire it. If we desire to do something that is contrary to the Torah, then we have a choice between leaning on our own understanding of good and evil by doing what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust in God with all of our hearts to correctly divide between good and evil through obeying the Torah in all of our ways and He will make our way straight (Proverbs 3:1-7), which is the choice between the Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of Life (Proverbs 3:18). Repentance is about turning away from doing what is right in our eyes and trusting God to guide us in how to rightly live through obeying the Torah in all of our ways.
 
There's an oft repeated heresy that defines the term to mean "turn from sin".
It's a modern way of saying "obey the law. "

God was the first to repent in the Bible. Chapter 6.
 
There are a number of ways where Eve's desires influenced her perception (Genesis 3:6) and our desires cloud our judgements so that if we lean only on our own understanding of good and evil, then we can't be sure if something is truly good of if we just think that it is good because we desire it. If we desire to do something that is contrary to the Torah, then we have a choice between leaning on our own understanding of good and evil by doing what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust in God with all of our hearts to correctly divide between good and evil through obeying the Torah in all of our ways and He will make our way straight (Proverbs 3:1-7), which is the choice between the Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of Life (Proverbs 3:18). Repentance is about turning away from doing what is right in our eyes and trusting God to guide us in how to rightly live through obeying the Torah in all of our ways.
Eve’s problem in Genesis 3:6 was that her desires made the fruit look good even though God said it was bad, and the Hebrew word טוֹב (tov, “good”) shows she was trusting her own idea of “good” instead of God’s command, which is why Proverbs 3:5–7 says not to “lean on your own understanding” but to trust God and obey Him; when we follow our desires instead of God’s Word, we end up doing what is “right in our own eyes,” just like Israel did in Judges, but when we obey God’s commands, He “makes our paths straight,” and Proverbs 3:18 calls wisdom “a tree of life,” showing the choice is the same as Eden: trust God’s way or trust our own way.
Repentance means turning away from our own ideas of good and evil and choosing God’s way instead, but it is wrong to say this means “obeying the Torah in all our ways,” because the Bible says the Torah was a tutor leading us to Christ (Galatians 3:24), and now we follow Christ’s commands (John 14:15), not the Sinai covenant, so the real choice today is not “Tree of Knowledge vs. Torah,” but “my desires vs. Christ’s words,” and Scripture says only Christ gives the true “Tree of Life” (Revelation 2:7).
 
IMHO, the word repentance may have been misunderstood by Christians for generations. In English it sounds like guilt, regret, and endless apology. But the original Hebrew word is teshuva, derived from the verb shuv, meaning to return. Not to feel sorry. To physically turn around and move in a completely different direction. Our Understanding of this single word could reframe everything Jesus meant when He said repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For easy reference:
Matthew 4:17: "From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.'"Mark 1:15: "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." Luke 13:3 & 13:5: "No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."Luke 5:32: "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance." Jesus taught that heaven celebrates when a person repents, comparing it to a lost item being found or a prodigal child returning home (Luke 15:7, 10).
You got it right !
 
Eve’s problem in Genesis 3:6 was that her desires made the fruit look good even though God said it was bad, and the Hebrew word טוֹב (tov, “good”) shows she was trusting her own idea of “good” instead of God’s command, which is why Proverbs 3:5–7 says not to “lean on your own understanding” but to trust God and obey Him; when we follow our desires instead of God’s Word, we end up doing what is “right in our own eyes,” just like Israel did in Judges, but when we obey God’s commands, He “makes our paths straight,” and Proverbs 3:18 calls wisdom “a tree of life,” showing the choice is the same as Eden: trust God’s way or trust our own way.
Repentance means turning away from our own ideas of good and evil and choosing God’s way instead,
In Proverbs 3:1, it uses the Hebrew word "Torah", so it is certainly referring to obeying the Torah as the way to trust in God in all of our ways it was certainly given in accordance with God's wisdom. Likewise, in Revelation 22:14, those who kept God's commandments are given the right to eat from the Tree of Life, in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments of the Torah, and in Hebrews 5:9, Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him. Before Adam and Eve had eaten from either Tree, they were at a crossroads between eternal life and mortality where eating from the Tree of Life would have given them to have eternal life while eating from the Tree of Knowledge caused them to become mortal, and in Deuteronomy 30:11-20, the Israelites were at the same crossroads where Moses placed before them a choice between life and a blessing for obedience to the Torah or death and a curse for disobedience to it. Likewise, God placed cherubim to guard the way back to the Garden and instructed for cherubim to guard the Ark of the Covenant, so we have the same choice of whether we are going to repent. The Bible also repeatedly refers to the Torah as being God's way, such as with Deuteronomy 10:12-13, 1 Kings 2:1-3, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, and Psalm 119:1-3.

but it is wrong to say this means “obeying the Torah in all our ways,” because the Bible says the Torah was a tutor leading us to Christ (Galatians 3:24), and now we follow Christ’s commands (John 14:15), not the Sinai covenant, so the real choice today is not “Tree of Knowledge vs. Torah,” but “my desires vs. Christ’s words,” and Scripture says only Christ gives the true “Tree of Life” (Revelation 2:7).
The Torah is God's commandments, so please explain how you can agree that the Law of Christ does not replace God's commandments while also taking the position that Christ's commandments replace the Torah.

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has the character traits that the Torah was given in order to teach us how to embody, so the goal of Torah is to teach us how to love God through embodying His character traits, which is why the Bible repeatedly states in both the OT and the NT that the way to love God is by obeying His commandments. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah (Hebrews 1:3), so the way to love the Son is exactly the same as the way to love the Father and that the commandments of the Son are exactly the same as those of the Father. In John 14:23-24, Jesus said that if we love him, then we will obey his teachings, if we don't love him, then we will not obey his teachings, and that his teachings were not his own but that of the Father, so he did not teach his own set of commandments that are distinct from those of the Father. Likewise, in John 15:10, Jesus used a parallel statement to equate his commandments with those of the Father.

The reason why God's Word leads us to God's Word made flesh is because he is the embodiment of it and it was given for the purpose of teaching us how to know, love, worship, believe in, testify about, and be one with him through following his example of embodying it, but the reason why it leads us to him is not so that we can then reject everything that he is and go back to being doers of what it reveals to be wickedness. Christ was sent as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26). Someone who disregarded everything that their tutor taught them after their purpose has been fulfilled would be missing the whole point of their tutor.