What if you die before water baptism?
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Unimportant. I was Born again, and then 4 days later I was Baptized. I couldn't care less if they called it a "Sacrament", or an "ordinance", they were Baptists, so they told me what to do, and I did it. It changed nothing (except to get me wet), and i was just as BORN AGAIN on Wednesday night as I was on Sunday Evening.
What did it change for you??
SO what happens if you get Born Again in the desert, and then die of heatstroke??????
What did it change for you??
SO what happens if you get Born Again in the desert, and then die of heatstroke??????
There is a lengthy discussion about the two births in 1 Corinthians 15.
”it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.“
1 Corinthians 15:44-50 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/1co.15.44-50.KJV
The two births discussed here are the natural birth and the spiritual birth. If there was no need to tell people they must be born in order to be born again then why is it discussed at length here? No mention of water baptism.
Everyone who believes has already been born again.
”Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.“
1 John 5:1 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/1jn.5.1.KJV
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didn't finish my sentence sorry, I don't agree, born again sorry ,? can come from how sincere you are at water baptism.
You say you where no more born again at baptism then you where 4 days later.
Then you claim it's just a matter of getting wet.
Whilst people of the lord consider it an honour to baptise people on the name of the lord. Why would you disrespect this.
Why would dishonor people who have given there life's to Christ
You say you where no more born again at baptism then you where 4 days later.
Then you claim it's just a matter of getting wet.
Whilst people of the lord consider it an honour to baptise people on the name of the lord. Why would you disrespect this.
Why would dishonor people who have given there life's to Christ
I didn't. I simply stated that being baptised in and of itself ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING. If you're BORN AGAIN and are subsequently Baptized, then you've been obedient, which is good.
If you're NOT Born again, but are baptized (with the false belief that it "Saves you"), then you're STILL LOST SPIRITUALLY, and the Baptism had no effect one way or the other.
A person is BORN AGAIN, when they place their FAITH (not belief) in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross (Eph 2:8,9).
Could that happen simultaneously with baptism - sure.
I wouldn't. But that has nothing to do with "Baptism".
If you're NOT Born again, but are baptized (with the false belief that it "Saves you"), then you're STILL LOST SPIRITUALLY, and the Baptism had no effect one way or the other.
A person is BORN AGAIN, when they place their FAITH (not belief) in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross (Eph 2:8,9).
Could that happen simultaneously with baptism - sure.
I wouldn't. But that has nothing to do with "Baptism".
I believe anyone who becomes a child of God would desire to do as Jesus did. He was water baptized as everyone else in the Bible except the one on the cross with Jesus. And if the one on the cross was a Jew then he would have been water baptized at some point in his life like every Jew was.
Anyone who does not want to be water baptized truly does not desire to be like the One they call Lord, God, and Savior.
Anyone who does not want to be water baptized truly does not desire to be like the One they call Lord, God, and Savior.
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I'm always amazed by such an argument. So if someone doesn't want to wear sandals, ride a donkey, worship in a synagogue, become a carpenter, or die on a cross, they don't want garner the spiritual attributes of Jesus?
Perhaps you are willing to forego indoor plumbing and kitchen appliances, but you aren't going to become more spiritual in the process. Lest you think I am opposed to water baptism, I am not. It is clearly commanded of believers. I even believe there is grace communicated to those who truly belong to Christ. It is simply the line of reasoning that I find faulty.
Perhaps you are willing to forego indoor plumbing and kitchen appliances, but you aren't going to become more spiritual in the process. Lest you think I am opposed to water baptism, I am not. It is clearly commanded of believers. I even believe there is grace communicated to those who truly belong to Christ. It is simply the line of reasoning that I find faulty.
Wow! the Very Divisive controversial/Confusing subject - essentially:
"It is necessary for salvation /
no it is NOT necessary for salvation, but:
it IS necessary for a testimonial???"
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Doesn't anyone study that God Said That Now, "There is Only
Under Grace" That has absolutely nothing to do with a second
water ritual from the law, thus NOT 'necessary At ALL'!?
"God is NOT the author of Confusion," eh?
Amen.
"It is necessary for salvation /
no it is NOT necessary for salvation, but:
it IS necessary for a testimonial???"
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Doesn't anyone study that God Said That Now, "There is Only
Under Grace" That has absolutely nothing to do with a second
water ritual from the law, thus NOT 'necessary At ALL'!?
"God is NOT the author of Confusion," eh?
Amen.
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We shouldn't try to imitate Christ. We should endeavor to walk in the Spirit so that Jesus lives through us. We might be able to mimic His outward behavior, but we cannot do so with the same internal motivation apart from Him.
True obedience is both outwardly correct in its performance and inwardly correct in its motivation. Merely mimicking outward behavior is ritual and legalism. It doesn't please God nor is it truly obedience.
True obedience is both outwardly correct in its performance and inwardly correct in its motivation. Merely mimicking outward behavior is ritual and legalism. It doesn't please God nor is it truly obedience.
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Didn't you shoot your own argument in the foot there?
First you list a bunch of regular stuff that every jew did in the 1st century, then you mentioned Jesus' profession and His death on the cross which was never something for us to do.
Then you go to baptism and mention its a COMMAND for believers...
There goes the whole argument. Baptism is a COMMANDMENT; wearing sandals or riding a donkey IS NOT
First you list a bunch of regular stuff that every jew did in the 1st century, then you mentioned Jesus' profession and His death on the cross which was never something for us to do.
Then you go to baptism and mention its a COMMAND for believers...
There goes the whole argument. Baptism is a COMMANDMENT; wearing sandals or riding a donkey IS NOT
I can see why someone would come to that conclusion, and it's not a bad point. I could have chosen better examples perhaps. But the argument the poster made was we should desire to do as Jesus did. If this is so, why stop with baptism?
I go on to explain in successive posts, that if we are speaking concerning the law, we cannot do as Jesus does simply through imitation. To keep the law as Jesus does, it must be Him living in and through us because while we can mimic His outward obedience, we cannot parrot His inward motivation. Both are necessary for true obedience.
You have a keen eye. Appreciate the iron.
I go on to explain in successive posts, that if we are speaking concerning the law, we cannot do as Jesus does simply through imitation. To keep the law as Jesus does, it must be Him living in and through us because while we can mimic His outward obedience, we cannot parrot His inward motivation. Both are necessary for true obedience.
You have a keen eye. Appreciate the iron.
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